Mixing Monitor audio ranges

Penrith

Novice Member
Hi all,

Complete novice here, so please excuse me if I ask stupid questions, I'm just simply looking for the best possible setup within my budget without comprising on quality....I know, it's a lot to ask!

We're currently planning a complete kitchen diner project (knocking through to create an 'L' shaped open space) and I'm thinking about audio for my music and TV experience.

We broached the idea of ceiling speakers but this soon became obvious this was a no go as my daughter's room is directly above our kitchen.

We've ve been to RicherSounds to speak to the guys there and discussed a number of options. The option I was quoted for was 2 pairs of Monitor Audio Silver 50s (7G) and the new Sonos Network Amp.

The problem I have is space. Since I can't fit 1 of the Silver 50s in a location due to space constraints (speaker too high near a door opening) I was wondering if there is a way with perhaps running a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 50s alongside a pair of Monitor Audio Radius'?

Would there be any comprises when we just want to have a kitchen rave, eg listening to both speaker types loud? The ideal situation is we use the audio whilst watching films, YouTube videos etc but with the main objective to listen to music (mainly electronic music).

Our budget is around the £1500 mark.

If there are other alternatives it would be great to hear them too!

You help would be much appreciated on this!

Many thanks,

Steve
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
Might get more answers if you post a little diagram with measurements and where you wish to place them, and what Radius speaker you were thinking of.
Also there is better VFM to be had with different speakers, nothing wrong with the S50'7g but they are pretty expensive. If you don't need oodles of power and bass the Dali Oberon 1's might be a cheaper alternative.
 

Penrith

Novice Member
Thanks very much for replying Kapkirk, your time is appreciated!

The first pic shows the distance between the architrave and the ceiling, which isn't enough space for the Silver 50 speaker and bracketry - it's worth bearing in mind we plan for the door to open against the right hand wall, if that makes sense, that being said, we've decided to can the idea of having a speaker in that location all together.

The second pic shows the location (in the top corner between the Green and White wall) of where we propose the TV goes so we'll be restricted on height there too, due to the top of the TV being too high.

The third screenshot is where I'd like the speaker placement (the final option) - the Blue crosses Indicate the smaller Radius speakers and the Red crosses Indicate the Silver 50 speakers.

Monitor Audio Radius 90 was what we were thinking!

I do hope all this makes sense.

Cheers,

Steve
 

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wine man

Active Member
The Radius 90 is a nice sounding small speaker but not really suitable for loud volumes due to their physical size. There's an old saying 'you can't get a quart from a pint pot'.
Have you considered just having one good pair of speakers in the room rather than 2? This is normally sufficient for stereo.
 

Timmy C

Distinguished Member
Am I right in thinking you had orignally wanted to mount it so that speaker and bracket sit higher than the door so it will open underneath it? At that sort of height, I wonder if you would really notice much difference if the speaker was mounted sideways rather than vertical. Would doing that solve the problem?
 

dogfonos

Well-known Member
Would there be any comprises when we just want to have a kitchen rave, eg listening to both speaker types loud?

Playing two pairs of speakers simultaneously in the same space rarely works so I agree with wine man post#4. Also agree with Timmy C post#5 in that sideways mounting would be fine because you'll likely not hear the subtleties of pinpoint image placement and sense of acoustic space when speakers are set high up on a wall (or in a top corner) which you would if speakers, and listener, were ideally positioned. Such non-ideal positioning is likely to alter tonal balance by emphasizing certain bass frequencies and possibly muddling the midrange a bit. Unfortunately, speaker positioning is a compromise many of us have to make.

I suspect Kapkirk post#2 is correct, though I guess it depends on the price you pay for the MA Silver 50 7g. I'm sometimes confused by a seller's description of the speaker model they're selling. For instance, is this the 7g version (looks like it)?


Not a bad price if it is.

But these are small speakers with 5" bass/mid drivers and possibly not best suited to 'rave' volumes or reproducing strong bass. You enjoy electronic music which is notorious for it's speaker-challenging bass content. And rear ported speakers need to be a few inches clear of a rear wall (appropriate brackets should space them a little away from walls).

Your kitchen looks to be about 20 - 25sqm (I can't see that it's 'L' shaped though?). For such a size, slighter larger speakers would be better suited even though I appreciate it will likely give even more challenging positioning issues.

Might you be better off with a speaker specifically designed for on-wall mounting? Seeing as you're having all that building work done, how about in-wall speakers?


Best option could be small-ish speaker pair (on-wall or in-wall) with in-wall subwoofer. That would give the necessary bass power and high volume capability too.
 

gava

Well-known Member
Using speakers meant for hifi listening at ear height from 2-3m distance from a sofa - and instead mounting them near the ceiling in a big reflective space is a spectacularly bad idea; they will sound terrible across most of your listening space. You are simply wasting your money.

Getting either co-axial hifi speakers, or speakers specifically designed for wall mounting will be much better - as they give much broader and more even radiation patterns.

Music in this space is never going to be "hifi", but for all that it can sound good, with fairly even dispersion and should be attached to a system that is easy to use and robust.

There is also the option of choosing the kind of speaker setup that generally sells very well for these kinds of setups e.g. a set of Sonos speakers distributed in 2, 3 or 4 locations around the room and linking them together.

In your place however I'd seriously look at something like the B&W Formation Wedge - placed in the upper left corner on your plan - its 120 degree radiation pattern will cover the whole L space, if you can stretch the budget a little bit, then add the Formation Bass subwoofer and you will get a nice sounding system that is also up for a little kitchen dance party.



 

AgentOrange76

Active Member
Playing two pairs of speakers simultaneously in the same space rarely works so I agree with wine man post#4. Also agree with Timmy C post#5 in that sideways mounting would be fine because you'll likely not hear the subtleties of pinpoint image placement and sense of acoustic space when speakers are set high up on a wall (or in a top corner) which you would if speakers, and listener, were ideally positioned. Such non-ideal positioning is likely to alter tonal balance by emphasizing certain bass frequencies and possibly muddling the midrange a bit. Unfortunately, speaker positioning is a compromise many of us have to make.

I suspect Kapkirk post#2 is correct, though I guess it depends on the price you pay for the MA Silver 50 7g. I'm sometimes confused by a seller's description of the speaker model they're selling. For instance, is this the 7g version (looks like it)?


Not a bad price if it is.

But these are small speakers with 5" bass/mid drivers and possibly not best suited to 'rave' volumes or reproducing strong bass. You enjoy electronic music which is notorious for it's speaker-challenging bass content. And rear ported speakers need to be a few inches clear of a rear wall (appropriate brackets should space them a little away from walls).

Your kitchen looks to be about 20 - 25sqm (I can't see that it's 'L' shaped though?). For such a size, slighter larger speakers would be better suited even though I appreciate it will likely give even more challenging positioning issues.

Might you be better off with a speaker specifically designed for on-wall mounting? Seeing as you're having all that building work done, how about in-wall speakers?


Best option could be small-ish speaker pair (on-wall or in-wall) with in-wall subwoofer. That would give the necessary bass power and high volume capability too.
This is the 6g version - 7g has a white tweeter surround. no one is selling 7g for less than £575 at the moment,
 

dogfonos

Well-known Member
This is the 6g version - 7g has a white tweeter surround. no one is selling 7g for less than £575 at the moment,
Ouch! A case of emperor's new clothes?

With the far more capable and excellently reviewed MA Silver 100 (6g) now selling for £429, the newer MA Silver 50 doesn't look good value to me, though I appreciate the Silver 100 is too large for the OP to accommodate.
 

AgentOrange76

Active Member
I haven’t heard the 6g but do have the 50 7g and yes space constraints determined the 50 over the 100. Cosmetically the drivers tone in better with the cabinet on the 7g version. There may not be enough performance difference in it to upgrade or alternatively makes the 6g a bargain. Toying with a pair of 6g versions as a second system but can’t find anyone reputable with them in black oak hence my pricing knowledge
 

Penrith

Novice Member
The Radius 90 is a nice sounding small speaker but not really suitable for loud volumes due to their physical size. There's an old saying 'you can't get a quart from a pint pot'.
Have you considered just having one good pair of speakers in the room rather than 2? This is normally sufficient for stereo.
Apologies for the delayed response, we've been away for the weekend!

I get what you're saying with the Radius being a small speaker. The idea of having 4 speakers was to have sound from the front and the rear of our seating position instead of just the 2!
 

Penrith

Novice Member
Am I right in thinking you had orignally wanted to mount it so that speaker and bracket sit higher than the door so it will open underneath it? At that sort of height, I wonder if you would really notice much difference if the speaker was mounted sideways rather than vertical. Would doing that solve the problem?
Exactly that - just not enough clearance. Mounting it sideways would solve the problem but do you think it would look odd? Not sure what the etiquette is regarding this?
 

Penrith

Novice Member
Playing two pairs of speakers simultaneously in the same space rarely works so I agree with wine man post#4. Also agree with Timmy C post#5 in that sideways mounting would be fine because you'll likely not hear the subtleties of pinpoint image placement and sense of acoustic space when speakers are set high up on a wall (or in a top corner) which you would if speakers, and listener, were ideally positioned. Such non-ideal positioning is likely to alter tonal balance by emphasizing certain bass frequencies and possibly muddling the midrange a bit. Unfortunately, speaker positioning is a compromise many of us have to make.

I suspect Kapkirk post#2 is correct, though I guess it depends on the price you pay for the MA Silver 50 7g. I'm sometimes confused by a seller's description of the speaker model they're selling. For instance, is this the 7g version (looks like it)?


Not a bad price if it is.

But these are small speakers with 5" bass/mid drivers and possibly not best suited to 'rave' volumes or reproducing strong bass. You enjoy electronic music which is notorious for it's speaker-challenging bass content. And rear ported speakers need to be a few inches clear of a rear wall (appropriate brackets should space them a little away from walls).

Your kitchen looks to be about 20 - 25sqm (I can't see that it's 'L' shaped though?). For such a size, slighter larger speakers would be better suited even though I appreciate it will likely give even more challenging positioning issues.

Might you be better off with a speaker specifically designed for on-wall mounting? Seeing as you're having all that building work done, how about in-wall speakers?


Best option could be small-ish speaker pair (on-wall or in-wall) with in-wall subwoofer. That would give the necessary bass power and high volume capability too.
I'm guessing by what you and others are saying that maybe 1 decent pair of speakers will do the job. As I mentioned in a previous reply, the intension was to have sound coming from front and rear.

I did look into ceiling speakers but my daughter's room is directly above and I guess the same reasoning with in-wall speakers (lounge is the other side of that wall and thought they'd be sound propergating into that adjoining space....I guess this would be the case?)

I guess the is kind of an L shaped space, it has a slight dogleg!

I like the option of slightly smallish speakers with a sub to deal with the bass....do you have any suggestions of a combination?
 

Penrith

Novice Member
Using speakers meant for hifi listening at ear height from 2-3m distance from a sofa - and instead mounting them near the ceiling in a big reflective space is a spectacularly bad idea; they will sound terrible across most of your listening space. You are simply wasting your money.

Getting either co-axial hifi speakers, or speakers specifically designed for wall mounting will be much better - as they give much broader and more even radiation patterns.

Music in this space is never going to be "hifi", but for all that it can sound good, with fairly even dispersion and should be attached to a system that is easy to use and robust.

There is also the option of choosing the kind of speaker setup that generally sells very well for these kinds of setups e.g. a set of Sonos speakers distributed in 2, 3 or 4 locations around the room and linking them together.

In your place however I'd seriously look at something like the B&W Formation Wedge - placed in the upper left corner on your plan - its 120 degree radiation pattern will cover the whole L space, if you can stretch the budget a little bit, then add the Formation Bass subwoofer and you will get a nice sounding system that is also up for a little kitchen dance party.



Thanks for that information, last thing I want is spend a load of cash on a setup which isn't going to sound good and get the most out of what their intended purpose was.

Are the Sonos a decent sounding speaker? Ultimately, we want a decent sound (for our budget) from whichever set up we decide to get!

You suggestions of the Bowers & Wilkins speakers are unfortunately out of my budget - they do look rather nice though, it has to be said.
 

Penrith

Novice Member
Ouch! A case of emperor's new clothes?

With the far more capable and excellently reviewed MA Silver 100 (6g) now selling for £429, the newer MA Silver 50 doesn't look good value to me, though I appreciate the Silver 100 is too large for the OP to accommodate.
Potential stupid question alert....

Is there much difference between the 6G and 7G do you know? I assume there must be going by the price
 

AgentOrange76

Active Member
The 6g (6th Generation) is the old model, retailers are selling them off becuase there is the 7g (7th Generation) have been released. There is very little 6g stock left now of the Silver 50 as its been about 5 months since the 7g were released. I havent been looking at the Silver 100 stock but do not imaging it will be any diferent.

In terms of diference I cant find any direct comparrison of the 6g over the 7g. There are cosmetic improvements and probably some technical ones but whether thats discernable is anyones guess.
 

Timmy C

Distinguished Member
Exactly that - just not enough clearance. Mounting it sideways would solve the problem but do you think it would look odd? Not sure what the etiquette is regarding this?

Well that would be for you to decide. I've seen it done in pubs and clubs many times and plenty of us have centre speakers on our av system that look pretty much like a regular speaker on it's side.

As far as the difference between 6G and 7G goes, 6G will be way better value. Never heard either but there's no question which ones I would choose based on the big discounts usually available on outgoing speaker ranges.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
I haven’t heard the new generation. But from reading online. It appears the new ones sound cleaner then the old ones.

More air, channel separations.

Whether it’s audible for you, is up to you.
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If you are mixing different generations of speakers, then it really depends upon whats important. If the cinema is important and the centre channel has been discontinued, then using the newer replacement will be fine as it will give you more than the predecessor whereas if your into stereo and cinema isn't as important to you, then again, upgrading to the new generation will be a benefit to your ears

With the rear surrounds, this is where I'd say it one of those, it'll work and yes the newer range should have something extra, but with the rears, will you really hear it as sound isn't always projected to them will be something only you can answer

If, however you are purchasing the stereo pair because the matching centre has been discontinued, then I'd always recommend balancing the front three speakers and not purchasing the older centre just because its a little cheaper. Many dealers will always cut you a deal if it comes to the push especially if the product you are looking for falls into this situation
 

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