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Mitsubishi HC2000 impressions

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by MovieAddict, Aug 11, 2004.

  1. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    I've recently bought a Mitsubishi HC2000 to replace my Sanyo Z2.

    So, if anyone has any questions to ask about the HC2000, I will do my best to answer them although I am not a projector expert like some of you. The Sanyo was my first pj (ever since getting that I've become an avid enthusiast).

    I am projecting from about 14 feet onto a 8ft wide (110" diagonal) white ~1.5 gain screen. The DVD player is a Denon A11 using component and DVI.

    My first impressions after about a week is that the picture it produces is just about all I could have wished for. The things that hit you are the vivid colours, extra contrast, no discernable pixel structure, no vb. All this combines to produce a superb cinematic image, especially with good quality DVD's.

    After plugging it in for the first time, the out of box settings when fed through component seem to me to be close to optimum (from a purely subjective point of view).
    When I initially tried the DVI feed I was a little disappointed because the picture seemed a little dull in comparison with the seemingly brighter and more vivid component feed.

    However... after changing some picture adjustment settings (mostly on the A11), the DVI picture I am now getting is great, and is now my preferred option.

    As I have said, good quality DVD's produce a fantastic image and even bad quality DVD transfers like, for example 'Broken Arrow' (great movie) can be made to look very good on this pj.

    After reading the post on the avsforum site about impressions of the Optoma H77, I suspect the Mitsubishi is very similar (as is rumoured) although we will not know for certain until someone does a side by side comparison.
    The Mitsubishi certainly has some interesting setup options not available on the Optoma.
     
  2. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    Here are a couple of screen shots of 'Deep Blue Sea' via component.

    They are a bit blurred and low res because I have not set up the camera properly. :confused:

    I will try some experiments and get some better shots in the next few days.
     

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  3. Wolvreen

    Wolvreen
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    Great, I am looking to buy one. It will be my first pj. Saw a demo recently but the equipment was not setup properly. Am going to ignore the demo.

    Can you say what your setup is?

    Also what screen are you using?

    Thanks for your help.
     
  4. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    Hi Wolveen

    My setup is:-
    Projecting from about 14 feet onto a 8ft wide (Ellie 110" diagonal) white ~1.5 gain screen. Dark room. The DVD player is a Denon A11 using component and DVI.

    I now have some much better screen shots :thumbsup:

    The first 3 are via Component using the A11's default settings and also the HC2000's default settings (in Low lamp mode) ... any blurriness in the pictures is sometimes due to 'pause'ing the movie in order to take the pics.

    Note: The HC2000 has 2 lamp modes: Normal amd Low.
     

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  5. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    Here are shots via the DVI input. I have increased the projectors Brightness and Contrast settings slightly...
     

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  6. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    And some more DVI ones...

    There are lots of settings for picture adjustment on the pj, and its surprising how high you can set the Brightness (and Contrast) without getting a 'washed-out' picture.
     

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  7. Wolvreen

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    Can you do some screenshots of Pirates of the Caribbean, general shots and where she is hiding in the cupboard (near the start). In the demo the light on her face looked quite bad, greeny etc.

    Thanks again.
     
  8. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    OK, I will try some shots of Pirates... tonight :smashin:
     
  9. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Have you used Avia or Video Essentials to set white and black levels? That alone can make a worthwhile improvement in picture quality.

    Gary.
     
  10. inzaman

    inzaman
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    Good thread, now that you have had this a week or so how do you find this compared to the Z2 i.e is it worth the additional cost etc.

    The reason that i ask is that i currently have a Z2, which was also my first pj, and i am thinking of getting the H77 of which the HC2000 is based, i believe.

    I will obviously get a demo but just wanted some first hand experience from somebody who has gone a similar route to the one that i am thinking of taking, cheers inza.
     
  11. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    Gary,
    No I hav'nt. But I'm sure you're right because I've been going on the false assumption that I would get a better and more vibrant picture by increasing brightness and contrast settings into positive.
    However, I was fiddling around with my current settings and tried decreasing Brightness into negative and was surprised at how much it improved the picture. Suddenly things looked even more pronounced and 3 dimensional.
    So, I will start by using the THX Optimiser on one of the Star Wars discs and maybe get a copy of Avia.

    Wolvreen,
    Here are some shots from 'Pirates...'.
    I think the green shades are intentional??, although there maybe a problem which someone reported concerning shading over on my Post at www.avsforum.com
    The darker shots are'nt so good but I'm sure that after calibration things could look a lot better.
     

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  12. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    inza,
    I think the Z2 is amazing and I enjoyed watching lots of movies on it. But, knowing there were even better pjs out there you start to analyze all the ways things could improve.
    I started noticing VB and screendoor a little more and on some movies I wished for more contrast. Also you sometimes feel that the picture is a little transparent (to be fair, my screen size is a bit bigger than the recommended ideal size for the Z2). Another thing was that I wanted to connect thru DVI from my A11, but without a firmware update I don't think they worked. One of the good features of the Z2 is the quiet fan, so I was looking for this also in the pj I upgraded to.

    The Mits solves all these problems 100%, and the real surprise is the colours (reds, greens and blacks especially).
    As to whether its worth the extra money?, thats a good question. Compared to the Marantz, Infocus 7205, Sharp 12000, it seems like its good value.
     
  13. inzaman

    inzaman
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    Thanks for the info, i am projecting onto a 7ft wide screen and am about 1.7 width away. I will be closer to this when i move my set up hence my desire to change pj soon due to the issues you have mentioned as i also want to keep the 7ft screen width.

    I had ruled dlp out for the time being due to eye strain etc when i viewed the H56 but having recently viewed the 4805 there was no eye strain, rainbows etc so now i really want a dlp.
     
  14. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Pixel - the THX optimiser is only set-up for the disk it's on, and can't be used as a blanket calibration, but is better than nothing.

    Avia's needle puls tests are a great way to ste white (contrast) and black (brightness) levels, and that will ensure you're not losing detail in the dark or bright areas.

    Avia is designed for NTSC, so the black level won't be correct for PAL, but if your DVD player has a below black or 0ire setting for NTSC, it will bring the NTSC black into line with PAL.

    Video Essentials is a PAL disk, so may be better suited (still use below black for NTSC though), but I haven't used that disk myself.

    Gary.
     
  15. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    Gary,
    Thanks for the details, I will probably go for Avia.
     
  16. Wolvreen

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    Are you saying that you need to setup AVIA with NTSC but that PAL may still be wrong?

    What happens if you want both the NTSC and PAL setup to be correct?

    Or does the PJ allow you to setup PAL and NTSC independently?
     
  17. MovieAddict

    MovieAddict
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    Presumably, you would set up for PAL and NTSC independently and save each setup in the Projector as a custom setting (ie. User1 or User2).

    My copy of Avia arrived today, so I will be attempting some calibrating very soon.
     
  18. inzaman

    inzaman
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    Wolvreen, if you use avia then yes pal may still be wrong.

    The pj should allow you to save more than one custom setting so you can therefore save ntsc to setting 1 and pal to setting 2 say. Then dependant on source you just select the appropriate setting.
     
  19. Gary Lightfoot

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    The main difference between PAL and NTSC is the black level - for PAL it is 0ire, which is a milivoltage output from the source machine. I can't remember the figures, but lets say it's 0mv.

    NTSC has black at 7.5ire - lets say 0.49mv. If you set black to be 0.49mv, that will be a dark grey from a PAL source, but will appear black, and you'll be losing shadow detail(the greys between 0 and 0.49mv). If you can set the DVD player to 0ire or 'below black' (some players have these options), then the black levels will be the same.

    Conversly, if you set black to 0ire, NTSC will only send out 7.5ire (0.49mv) so you'll never get the image as black as it can go. Blacks will be greyer than normal.

    The answer is to set both PAL and NTSC seperately with VE and Avia if you can't set NTSC black to 0ire.

    This doesn't apply to HTPC since it doesn't send out video standards, so one setting fits all.

    Most pjs have memories for each source, so will remember the settings.

    Gary.
     
  20. lenny

    lenny
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    Good afternoon Pixel123,

    I just bought a HC2000 and I'm wondering if I can easly use an external progressive scan module (a Tag mcLaren PSM192 based on a silicon image chipset).

    Have you tried to use the progressive scan card of your Denon and using only the HC2000 scaler? Does it work fine?

    Regards,

    Lenny
     
  21. MovieAddict

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    Hi Lenny,

    Congratulations! Hope you enjoy the HC2000. :thumbsup:

    I am using the DVI (720p progressive) output of the Denon into the projector. So, presumably this means that the Denon is doing the scaling ??

    I am not absolutely sure which is doing the scaling (the pj or the denon) and in what circumstances. I assume that if I fed the pj an interlaced signal, the pj would do the scaling? Perhaps someone else can explain. :confused:

    Certainly, the DVI 720p output from the Denon with top quality DVD's is superb and razor sharp.
     
  22. lenny

    lenny
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    Thank you Pixel123 for the quick answer. I'm very happy about the HC2000 mainly because I paid for it 4990€ (roughly 3325 £). I waiting for some folk who is more expert then us concerning the progressive scan done by an outside source and feed to the HC2000 through its BNC input.
     
  23. theritz

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    The A11 is deinterlacing and scaling when it's outputting 720p.


    S.
     
  24. Wasabi

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  25. lenny

    lenny
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    Wow! Really good!! I can not imagine the margins all the companies working in home cinema have!
     
  26. lenny

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    Good evening HC2000 users.

    After some weeks of use I can come over with some feedback on the projector.
    Before that here the details on how I'm using it:

    Source: Pioneer 747. Used output: component YUV (YCbCr). Mode: interlaced PAL.
    Video treatment: Tag Mclaren PSM progressive scan module using silicon image processor. Used input YUV via BNC terminals. Used output: mainly DVI-D, I can also use the RVBHV analog output.
    Projector: used input obviously DVI-D or RVBHV

    Usually the image is very beautiful but often I've noticed the following problems:

    1) each time there are scenes with smoke or fog in dark environments there are banding problems (ref. Aliens, Master and Command, LOTR during the battles).
    2) in face close ups there are always smearing problems.
    3) the image tend to be a little bit too green.

    I'm not pushing too much the projector setting and/or the Tag progressive scan board settings because I want to do it using Digital Video Essentials in order to avoid any mess.

    Have you got the same problems? Have you managed to sort them out?

    I got another problem: I'm not able to find the "hidden menu" that let me to change the speed of the colour wheel. Could you please give me some directions in order to do that?

    Waiting for your comments.


    Regards, Lenny
     
  27. Boris Blank

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    Lenny,
    You're not the only one with these problems - see this thread over at AVSForums http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447048 for more information.
    Paul
     
  28. lenny

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    Thank you Paul for your answer.

    Pixel 123 could you please keep me informed about the news coming from Mitsubishi? I noticed on the avsforum that you managed to change the wheel speed. I've been told that it is not possible and it changes in function of the kind of DVD you are watching at (NTSC or PAL). Is it true? If not how do you change the wheel speed please?

    Best regards,

    Leo
     
  29. MovieAddict

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    Hi Lenny,

    Yes, myself and at least one other HC2000 are getting exactly the problems you describe.

    Changing the colorwheel speed or any other setting does not appear to fix the problem, so it is at least consistent. The other HC2000 owner is from Germany and he has reported it to Mitsubishi. I shall be also contacting Mitsubishi UK. I suggest you also report this because then as they see more users are having the same problem, they will take it more seriously.

    To change the colorwheel speed (Page 29 of the manual):-

    1. Press the MENU button to display the top menu.
    2. Press the AUTO POSITION button and the SOURCE button on the projector at the same time.
    3. Press the up or down arrow buttons to select the item to adjust.
    4. Adjust the selected item by pressing the left or right arrow buttons.
     
  30. inzaman

    inzaman
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    Is this just limited to the HC2000 or does this problem persist with the H77, as i believe the HC2000 is based on this.
     

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