The No. 1 Home Entertainment Tech Resource
Mitsubishi HC 3000
- Thread starter Murray
- Start date
S
stallpot
Guest
Its dark chip 2, but it is very very good. Better than the Z4 by a lot mostly in the black department.
PJTX100
Distinguished Member
foghorn said:
The problem with sweeping statements like Stallpots is that everyone took this approach it would all degrade back down to the "my PJ is better than yours" or "DLP/LCD is better then LCD/DLP" debates which get's people nowhere.
I saw a 3grand DLP the H79 compared against the Z4, and the TX200/AE900, and though it was a great picture I thought is was not superior to the Z4/TX/AE in any significant way, in fact I didn't think it was superior full stop. Again, it could all boil down to the calibration but should I now go around warning people off the H79 as Stallpot seems to be running around sullying the Z4?.
I must say Stallpot's comment on another forum about the SDE on the Z4 makes me worry as to what sort of demo it actually was....PJ
PJTX100
Distinguished Member
MikeK said:
I think I was putting it in context of what he said on other threads...
"The Z4 wouldnt know what black was if it was sitting in a black hole."
and
"but LCD cant make black, by a considerable margin."
This is old news, this is incorrect news. I enjoyed watching DLP but this sort of sentiment is nonsense. I do agree the CR figs LCDs are spouting are hype though...PJ
rdundas
Prominent Member
Darn tooting. His comments are to be put in the dustbin marked "Ignore" and read more considered reviews and most importantly if poss. check them out yourself. His sweeping statements in my OPINION are tripe. If he would at least stop giving his views as if they were fact, it would be a start, but I doubt we will be so lucky.
I do sometimes wonder if we occasionally get employees of the projector companies coming on here to try and spread bad propaganda about their rivals and good about their own products. Especially when they've only posted a few times and launch straight into 'diss' mode. This is, after all, where a lot of projector virgins come for their info.
Of course, since receiving the Z4, I am now a fully paid up employee of Sanyo now and PJTX100 has been taking the Hitachi dollar for years!
Squibbly
Of course, since receiving the Z4, I am now a fully paid up employee of Sanyo now and PJTX100 has been taking the Hitachi dollar for years!
Squibbly
Hmm!
The problem, I think, is different people's perceptions of what is "good".
Unfortunately it does seem that in some people's eyes, if A is better than B, then A is good and B is crap. But this is their opinion and they are entitled to it!
Again to be fair to stallpot, he did say that in his opinion the Z4 isn't a bad machine for the money - but sweeping statements about black holes don't really help (they are sometimes amusing though - but if meant as such, should be accompanied by the appropriate smilie)
Personally I have little difficulty in believing that the black levels from the latest DLP machines will be better than LCD in absolute terms - but I also have little difficulty in believing that for many people it's probably moot - their viewing room will often render any DLP black-level advantage more or less irrelevant.
I think it's fair to say that both DLP and LCD have their pros and cons, as well as their fervent supporters and detractors.
I do think though that for many people these new LCD models are a very compelling combination of performance and value, especially for people who's intended use is in a typical British lounge or similar room. I think someone commented recently, that few people view in a batcave while wearing a ninja suit.
Yes, DLP models may have some advantages (assuming RBE isn't an issue), and for many these will be worthwhile paying the extra for.
You pays yer money and takes yer choice - or so they say
The problem, I think, is different people's perceptions of what is "good".
Unfortunately it does seem that in some people's eyes, if A is better than B, then A is good and B is crap. But this is their opinion and they are entitled to it!
Again to be fair to stallpot, he did say that in his opinion the Z4 isn't a bad machine for the money - but sweeping statements about black holes don't really help (they are sometimes amusing though - but if meant as such, should be accompanied by the appropriate smilie)
Personally I have little difficulty in believing that the black levels from the latest DLP machines will be better than LCD in absolute terms - but I also have little difficulty in believing that for many people it's probably moot - their viewing room will often render any DLP black-level advantage more or less irrelevant.
I think it's fair to say that both DLP and LCD have their pros and cons, as well as their fervent supporters and detractors.
I do think though that for many people these new LCD models are a very compelling combination of performance and value, especially for people who's intended use is in a typical British lounge or similar room. I think someone commented recently, that few people view in a batcave while wearing a ninja suit
.Yes, DLP models may have some advantages (assuming RBE isn't an issue), and for many these will be worthwhile paying the extra for.
You pays yer money and takes yer choice - or so they say
Wouldn't know......
Actually, I still need to set the brightness and contrast per ROne's instructions for my environment, if anything the blacks are a little too dark in darkened scenes. Anyway, I set up my Beamax A-Velvet screen yesterday (so glad I bought the velvet trim, it really does soak up that overspill), so now I can work on that. I can officially state that this improves dramatically on my blackout blind!
Squibbly
Actually, I still need to set the brightness and contrast per ROne's instructions for my environment, if anything the blacks are a little too dark in darkened scenes. Anyway, I set up my Beamax A-Velvet screen yesterday (so glad I bought the velvet trim, it really does soak up that overspill), so now I can work on that. I can officially state that this improves dramatically on my blackout blind!
Squibbly
S
stallpot
Guest
So you lot think my comments are a bit subjective, well they are, its only my opinion.
When I saw the Z4 and Hc3000 together they were set up one beneath the other in dark room demo room. Not perfectly blacked out but reasonable.
The screen was a stewart grey hawk with a 110" diagonal. Both PJ's being fed from a pioneer dvd player via component.
The test was fairly simple and not very scientific. Blank out one image and watch the other.
We were sat some 12' back from the screen. We watched a bit of Return of the Jedi and lord of the rings. The scenes in moria and the duel between luke and Darth.
On its own the Z4 did look impressive, colourful, sharp with only a hint of screendoor in the light areas. Its absolute black fell some way short of the base black of the screen in the dark. Now if some one gave me one of these I wouldnt be too upset, in fact I would be quite pleased.
The HC3000, its DLP and I did see rainbows. But in 1.5 hours of viewing I saw two of them, not sure if the brilliant coulour chip made the more coulourful or not but they didnt show themselves for very long. In my opinion the rainbows were less frequent and smaller than those I have seen before. The sharpness and colour were equally as good as the Z4, maybe with more tweaking the may get slightly better, but there didnt look to be much room for improvement in these areas on either machine.
What the HC3000 did much better was to make a truly realistic and satisfying black, comparing starfield to starfield one after the other it was obvious that the Z4 could not do this.
This is only my opinion, I am not a rocket scientist, just a low paid aerospace engineer. LCD claim fantastic contrast levels that I just cant see in practice. The 4000:1 claimed for the HC3000 sounds realistic.
When I saw the Z4 and Hc3000 together they were set up one beneath the other in dark room demo room. Not perfectly blacked out but reasonable.
The screen was a stewart grey hawk with a 110" diagonal. Both PJ's being fed from a pioneer dvd player via component.
The test was fairly simple and not very scientific. Blank out one image and watch the other.
We were sat some 12' back from the screen. We watched a bit of Return of the Jedi and lord of the rings. The scenes in moria and the duel between luke and Darth.
On its own the Z4 did look impressive, colourful, sharp with only a hint of screendoor in the light areas. Its absolute black fell some way short of the base black of the screen in the dark. Now if some one gave me one of these I wouldnt be too upset, in fact I would be quite pleased.
The HC3000, its DLP and I did see rainbows. But in 1.5 hours of viewing I saw two of them, not sure if the brilliant coulour chip made the more coulourful or not but they didnt show themselves for very long. In my opinion the rainbows were less frequent and smaller than those I have seen before. The sharpness and colour were equally as good as the Z4, maybe with more tweaking the may get slightly better, but there didnt look to be much room for improvement in these areas on either machine.
What the HC3000 did much better was to make a truly realistic and satisfying black, comparing starfield to starfield one after the other it was obvious that the Z4 could not do this.
This is only my opinion, I am not a rocket scientist, just a low paid aerospace engineer. LCD claim fantastic contrast levels that I just cant see in practice. The 4000:1 claimed for the HC3000 sounds realistic.
PJTX100
Distinguished Member
Well I for one found the post above a lot more useful than
"The Z4 wouldnt know what black was if it was sitting in a black hole"
I look forward to seeing the HC3000
...PJ
PS could you tell us where you saw this demo, such opportunities are pretty few and far between , the more options the better...
EDIT: BTW most opinion is that 12ft back from a 110" screen is too close, but it's all personal preference of course. I can understand why you sould see SDE on the Z4 now, but I could see SDE on a H79 from that distance...
"The Z4 wouldnt know what black was if it was sitting in a black hole"
I look forward to seeing the HC3000
...PJ
PS could you tell us where you saw this demo, such opportunities are pretty few and far between , the more options the better...
EDIT: BTW most opinion is that 12ft back from a 110" screen is too close, but it's all personal preference of course. I can understand why you sould see SDE on the Z4 now, but I could see SDE on a H79 from that distance...
S
stallpot
Guest
Have to be quick must go shopping.
Shoot and show in hosham did the demo for us.
I still like my comment about the balck hole. If you see these two PJs together you will instantly see what I mean.
Shoot and show in hosham did the demo for us.
I still like my comment about the balck hole. If you see these two PJs together you will instantly see what I mean.
inzaman
Moderator
I would have been interested in demoing the HC3000 and quite prepared to pay the £1900 but the offset just does not suit my set up and there is no lens shift. For my throw distance the offset is about 13inch, i cannot believe that these new DLPs do not include lens shift (H72 will not when it comes out) as this function is very handy and essential in a lot of set ups i would imagine.
I know the reason is due to cost constraints but you would have thought that the competitive environment would have forced this feature.
I know the reason is due to cost constraints but you would have thought that the competitive environment would have forced this feature.
Maybe the black levels of 35mm projected film should get better before we get too concerned about the black levels of our projectors.
Projectors are products of the whole, where one projector can produce a wonderful black-level the same machine can suffer in picture dynamics.
The Z4 doesn't have a fantastic black level, but is has superb Ansi Contrast when set-up properly ...
Projectors are products of the whole, where one projector can produce a wonderful black-level the same machine can suffer in picture dynamics.
The Z4 doesn't have a fantastic black level, but is has superb Ansi Contrast when set-up properly ...
I'm arranging a demo of those two in the very near future and hope to make up my mind as to which suits me best.
I'll take your settings along, Rone, and have a play with the settings on the HC3000 and try to see the difference.
My main drive is a sharp image (better then the slight fuzzy edges of the AE300), nice realistic colours and decent contrast to give a good 3d image.
I've had a chance to view a few PJ's now, namely infocus 4805, 7210, Mits XD300, panny AE300 and a philips LCD that I can't remember the model number of. I did see the RBE on the infocus, Mits PJ's but wasn't really affected by the 7210 which I believe has the same speed wheel as the Mits. The colour, I must admit didn't seem as good as on the AE300 though?! so I'll see if the Brilliant colour has solved that.
The other obvious question is, is it £600 better!?! I'll guess I'll find out soon enough
I'll take your settings along, Rone, and have a play with the settings on the HC3000 and try to see the difference.
My main drive is a sharp image (better then the slight fuzzy edges of the AE300), nice realistic colours and decent contrast to give a good 3d image.
I've had a chance to view a few PJ's now, namely infocus 4805, 7210, Mits XD300, panny AE300 and a philips LCD that I can't remember the model number of. I did see the RBE on the infocus, Mits PJ's but wasn't really affected by the 7210 which I believe has the same speed wheel as the Mits. The colour, I must admit didn't seem as good as on the AE300 though?! so I'll see if the Brilliant colour has solved that.
The other obvious question is, is it £600 better!?! I'll guess I'll find out soon enough
S
stallpot
Guest
Yes your correct should be Horsham. I am lost without a spell checker.
Its in Sussex, the staff are quite helpful and patient.
Its in Sussex, the staff are quite helpful and patient.
S
stallpot
Guest
Seems I missed a few posts while answering a question some hours ago.
Is the difference betwwen the HC3000 and Z4 worth £600 extra.
On the strengh of the demo my friend ordered the Hc3000, we both have bat cave type dedicated rooms and I think we are hoping this will be the last purchase for a few years, so for him and for me I guess the answer would be yes.
But if I had just seen the Z4 on its own, I would be quite happy with its performance its is a vast improvement on the Z3 which I saw working only a week before. Not sure how to qualify that statement, as I dont wish to offend but the Z3 on a 7' wide screen sitting about 10; back showed a lot of screendoor. And the black levels were quite poor, but the room had some ambient light and the screen gain was 1.2.
Is the difference betwwen the HC3000 and Z4 worth £600 extra.
On the strengh of the demo my friend ordered the Hc3000, we both have bat cave type dedicated rooms and I think we are hoping this will be the last purchase for a few years, so for him and for me I guess the answer would be yes.
But if I had just seen the Z4 on its own, I would be quite happy with its performance its is a vast improvement on the Z3 which I saw working only a week before. Not sure how to qualify that statement, as I dont wish to offend but the Z3 on a 7' wide screen sitting about 10; back showed a lot of screendoor. And the black levels were quite poor, but the room had some ambient light and the screen gain was 1.2.
stallpot said:Seems I missed a few posts while answering a question some hours ago.
Is the difference betwwen the HC3000 and Z4 worth £600 extra.
On the strengh of the demo my friend ordered the Hc3000, we both have bat cave type dedicated rooms and I think we are hoping this will be the last purchase for a few years, so for him and for me I guess the answer would be yes.
QUOTE]
What was the difference like in the demo room which isn't totally blacked out? my room is cream, white ceiling and cream carpet which means some reflected light so would be a bit like that room I guess.
I am hoping that this will be my last PJ for a few years too
I take it they didn't have any in stock then
Similar threads
- thread_type.competition
The latest video from AVForums
🎬 Top 20 Most Anticipated Movies of 2024
