Question MiniDSP Audiolab 8200AP compatibility

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by dazed&confused, Mar 25, 2018.

  1. dazed&confused

    dazed&confused
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    I have just purchased a MiniDSP NanoAVR Dirac Live from its first owner. Before I spend money on a computer and a new UMIK-1 microphone, I want to check its compatibility with my Audiolab 8200AP.

    I've just read in the forums about an Audiolab owner having problems. They had an 8000AP (the predecessor to the 8200AP), which they said had a signal processing bug. Their MiniDSP worked fine with their Audiolab during actual operation but they could not carry out the initial calibration because the MiniDSP sends out a 20bit or 24bit pink noise test signal. When a MiniDSP single-channel test signal is sent through the Audiolab to the subwoofer, to the centre channel, or to one of the surround channels, the Audiolab acts as if it is receiving no signal because it is expecting stereo or multichannel, and it consequently goes into silent mode (something which it doesn't do if the signal is 16-bit). Thus the calibration cannot be carried out on anything but the front stereo speakers. The owner appeared to have had substantial correspondence both with MiniDSP and with Audiolab, and neither company could offer a fix with a firmware or software modification.

    I think I may have thought of a solution and I would like to check out my knowledge and logic with you guys.

    Am I correct to think that if I were to experience this problem with my 8200AP, I could plug the MiniDSP into my Oppo105D, and use its multichannel analog outputs into my Audiolab in order to carry out the calibration? Then, once calibration is complete, move the MiniDSP to sit between the Oppo and the Audiolab (using PCM over HDMI of course)?

    Thanks.

    PS – is ideal AV is still the best place to buy a microphone from?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  2. Rick84

    Rick84
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  3. dazed&confused

    dazed&confused
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    Thanks Rick

    I recognise you from the 8200AP thread. Do you have any thoughts regarding my suggested solution?
     
  4. Rick84

    Rick84
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    Sorry I can’t help with the bulk of your question as I’ve no idea.

    I never felt the audiolab needed room Eq besides an antimode for the sub.
     
  5. dazed&confused

    dazed&confused
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    Sure, but I'm thinking equalisation has much more to do with the speaker/room interaction than it does with the processor. I have no complaints about the sound of my audiolab, but I am curious to see how much better it can get. I don't even have an anti-mode at the moment. It will probably be swings and roundabouts – I may gain something from equalisation, but I may lose out even more from not using the analog outputs from my Audiocom Signature version of the Oppo 105. At the moment I'm only using the Audiolab for volume control. I imagine I may well continue to use analogue outputs into the Audiolab apart from for heavy going action movies.
     
  6. domin

    domin
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    Hi, I think I'm the guy with the problem (but I'm not the only one, I had discussions with an 8200ap owner too)...

    After a lot of tests, solutions are (it's only during calibration, in normal use, there is no problem with the NanoAVR and Audiolab 8x00ap) :
    - using a PC with a PC version of Dirac (free trial) to generate test signals (very heavy but fonctionnal - I can give the procedure if necessary) with the NAnoAVR to acquire datas
    - using a Minidsp NanoAVR HD (not Dirac) after the NanoAVR Dirac Live (only during the test phase) to delete the bug

    Perhaps you could test your 105D in hdmi input and hdmi output to see if it works like the NanoAVR HD.
    In analogue, you need to have the same configuration than the Audiolab (delay, Bass management, etc...). I used this solution with an AVR for measurements (instead of the 8000ap)
     
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  7. Paul7777x

    Paul7777x
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    Damn. This is bad news. I had plans for the same set up.

    I suppose it’s not possible to simply change the output of the nano to 16 bit in my MacBook and then back to standard after the calibration?

    That sounds ridiculously too easy and sensible to be true.
     
  8. domin

    domin
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    No, because test signal is generated directly inside the NanoAVR DL...

    If you need,I could develop the method with 2 computers that someone used but it's a complex solution (but it works fine)
     
  9. dazed&confused

    dazed&confused
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    Hi Domin, thanks for your response, and sorry for taking so long to reply! My mind has been on other things since. I need to get my head around this before I come back to you with some questions, if that's okay.
     
  10. domin

    domin
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    Ok !
     
  11. Paul7777x

    Paul7777x
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    Thank you for the offer sir. That’s very good of you.

    I’m now in two minds about what to get. It was going to be the 8200AP, but as it seems to be a general pain I may end up with an Arcam processor instead... hmmm... I’ll let you know here what happens.

    Thanks again. :smashin:
     
  12. domin

    domin
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    This is the procedure elaborated by Mike.
    In fact, it's no more complicated than the Dirac standard procedure, it just needs to be synchronous.

    I will explain how to do it using two computers, but you can use one, but sometimes the Dirac software does not like running twice ( PC and NanoAVR ) together.




    Before I begin, you NEED to have your speaker levels and SUB level correct before starting!




    So, both computers need to be connected to the internet and one needs to be connected to your Audiolab directly, the NanoAVR needs to be disconnected from all HDMI devices! And the computer that is connected to your Audiolab, you need to download the Dirac trail for PC on Dirac site. You need to make an account for it via email address and once you do all that start the software on that computer connected to your Audiolab.




    The second computer needs to be connected to your NanoAVR and UMIK for measurements and you can now start the your Dirac software for your NanoAVR.




    Now, you should have both computers at the first screen on Dirac, the one which is the trail software and the second for the NANOAVR.




    Most times I will call Audiolab - AL.




    Now on the first computer going to your AL select custom for system config and 8 channels then the test signal playback device, select the KS streaming part whatever is right for the HDMI output via your PC then select proceed, then on the next screen on the microphone select anything as that will not be recording anything ( I selected Microsoft MIC ) then select proceed, now you should be on the level screen, leave that there for now.




    Now on the second computer going to your NanoAVR select 7.1 and press proceed, then select your UMIK and Cal file and select proceed, now you are on the level screen.




    Okay, now it gets a little tricky you need to match channel layout between the two software’s, so you need to make sure the layout on computer connected to your AL as the same layout as the NanoAVR dirac software, I swapped channel 3 with 4 and swapped channel 5 with 7 and swapped channel 6 with 8.


    Now you need to un-tick the Subwoofer checkbox as we have just changed the channel and you need to tick the channel with the SUB connected which should be third one down from the top.




    Press the test tone on the software going to your AL and press the test tone on your other computer going to your NanoAVR as it will start it listening for the UMIK, now adjust the AL volume output to match the levels being read by the Dirac software going to your NANOAVR so it reads -12DB and do that for all speakers and if you do need to lower the output you need to lower it in your Auidolab and test your SUB and do the same for that.




    Now you should be set, if for whatever reason the channels did not match above what I said then you need to find these out yourself as most PCS HDMI outputs can be different, but you should be fine.




    Now press proceed to the next screen on both computers and place your UMIK in your listening position and now you need to time this part perfectly! Select start on both software’s and a dialog will pop up, now you ready and you need to press OK on both software’s at the same time, if one as to be pressed slightly sooner and I mean slightly, then that would be the one connected to your NanoAVR.




    Once you do that both software’s will be doing there thing, the NanoAVR will be thinking its sending out the test tones, but its your computer connected to your AL! now when the measurements have finished and if it worked right the software connected to your NanoAVR will be calculating the data and will ask for the next measurement, if so then you good to go, the computer connected to your Audiolab will say something like it did not work ( it would as we are using it for the tone outputs only! ) just select okay.




    Now on the computer connected to your AL select start and it will pop up a dialog again and it will do this for ALL measurements and that is normal. Now once you got you UMIK set then get ready to press the two software’s together again, you will be pressing OK on the computer connected to your AL and you will be pressing start connected to your NANOAVR and UMIK.




    Do this for all remaining measurements, if you make a mistake or think you got the timing wrong just hit cancel and start again and remember to save on every measurement.




    Now if you did it correct now you will be completed and have your measurement data, save your file WITHOUT pressing optimize for future use ( that fault I found with Dirac as to do with this and its my work around )




    Now you saved your project without pressing optimize, now go ahead and make your filter and send to your NanoAVR and now your ready to test.




    You can disconnect the trail software now and reconnect your NanoAVR back up via HDMI how you have it and now we need to run REW through your NanoAVR to test levels on your channels.




    Now, run a full sweep on all your speakers and sub and check your levels, best way to do this is to check subwoofer to mains output from 10Hz to 200Hz they should be level if done right. I did have a problem with my SUB being too low but did that on the Dirac target via the a notepad.

    So there you go, bit complicated, but gets the job done with no money outlay and it as the right setting for Impulse delays etc…, just a pain to do.


    I try this, it works fine
     
  13. 007L2Kill

    007L2Kill
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    Hi Domin, it’s me Mike:smashin:.

    Hope you well mate and still rocking with your Audiolab:).

    I still remember trying to figure all of that out, gave me an ulcer lol.:laugh:

    Take care of yourself.:thumbsup:
     
  14. domin

    domin
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    Hi Mike!

    Still fine with my old 8000ap!

    Thanks for the help :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
    Next Dirac calibration in 10 days, but with an NanoAVR HD to stabilize signal!
     
  15. 007L2Kill

    007L2Kill
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    Great to hear you still got your AL:smashin:.

    Plus, happy to help.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    So, you got another NanoAVR as a feed out signal to the Audiolab, so I was right then, that doing that works fine.:)

    Sadly I sold my Audiolab 8200ap and NanoAVR DL mainly due to when I was using my PS4 PRO as I was using a splitter 4K box with one feed going to my OPPO for audio to the Nano then the other feed to the TV, but the handshaking between the HDMI feeds would not work sometimes for over 5mins and then sometimes even longer and after months of it drove me mad as I could not use Optical connection as the Nano only does HDMI, so I sold it on.

    I tested a lot of Processers and in the end brought a Marantz AV8801 and brought a Audyssey PRO kit and really happy with it, it does 4K, but not at 18GBPS, so use optical from my PS4 PRO and no more waiting or messing around.

    Before I sold on my Audiolab I was trying to find why the Audiolab mutes at 24bit signal, well I think I found out why, we know it was down to the auto muting, and looking up the old firmware updates to the 8000ap I found that at one point the 8000ap did not have a auto mute and was added to the firmware at a latter date, so Audiolab basically did a bad job of it, so running a older firmware may work, but you loose all other fixes. For Audiolab I bet this would be a very simple fix.

    So you are doing another calibration, have you changed or upgraded some of your equipment.
     

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