Mini Marty: Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" Ultimax (Build Thread)

Discussion in 'DIY Speaker & Subwoofer Building' started by mkohman, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Hey Guys,

    As you may know I have recently finished building my LCR (HTM-12) speakers and in desperate need of a new subwoofer to keep up with them :)

    Whilst I have been extremely happy with my BK Electronic Monolith + DF Subwoofer, trying to play nice with 3 x 12 inch Eminence woofers (HTM-12's) it's probably not as upto scratch as it could be in my fairly large room...

    With this in mind, I have decided to go ahead and build a Mini Marty with the Dayton Audio UM18-22 18" Ultimax driver.

    I have been reading up a lot on the AVS Forums and on AVForums and with the help of @Liammonty123 and @LTD02 (AVS forums) I have narrowed my options down to the Mini Marty and the Dayton driver as would be the most suitable for my part living/part cinema room.

    This thread will be updated on a regular basis with pictures until the build is complete and I welcome and would really appreciate any help, advice or recommendation from fellow forum members especially the likes of @mattkhan, @markymiles , @Liammonty123, @Ringnut and @PsyVision (sorry if I have missed anyone out but I appreciate and welcome all your help :) )

    Now, I want to start this thread with a huge thanks to @Liammonty123 and @LTD02 (AVS Forum) for providing me with some measurements and drawings.

    Pease find attached a pic of a UK (Euro 18mm MDF) Spec Mini Marty provided by @LTD02 and also detailed measurements and specs provided by @Liammonty123 . @Liammonty123, thank you for taking time out of your personal time and sketching these up for me and messaging me throughout the day.. Much much appreciated [emoji106]

    The measurements of @Liammonty123 is slightly different in that I wanted my cabinet to be 100 cm high, 50 cm deep and 60 cm wide.

    I would appreciate if you could please check to see if it's all good to go as I am planning on getting my MDF sorted out tomorrow or the next few days as I have already ordered the driver from the states and should be with me next week so I want to get the cabinet ready for when it arrives.

    I thank each and everyone in advance who has contributed to my HTM-12 build in the past and anyone who may be able to assist with this fun project.. Thank you :)

    *****The actual build starts from Page 3. Post #62 onwards *****
     

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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  2. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    port velocity looks a bit high and the excursion is also a bit high if you plan to put that power through it. The 1st port resonance *might* be a bit low too though that depends where and how you cross.

    Have you added a HPF to that model?
     
  3. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Thank you @mattkhan.. I'm going to put my hands up now and admit that I'm not really clued up with the technicality of building a subwoofer.. @Liammonty123 may be able to answer that as he sketched this up for me.. It will either be the euro spec sizes from @LTD02 or the custom size from @Liammonty123 or if anyone has any other suggestions I'm happy to consider providing it's similar sizes..
     
  4. Liammonty123

    Liammonty123
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    The modelled excursion is past Xmax but the data bass reviews seems to suggest it is good up to the limit I moddelled. The box is around 250l which is the biggest M can fit in his room. At around xmax I think Velocity is at 19 is ms. From all the info available Ive seen threads where 1st resonance is at around 140 with no issues so I seemed to think 160 was no issue if crossing at 80 or 90. The design for a tune at 17hz is vol limited and I wondered if 18 or 19hz would be better in terms of velocity or resonance, is this just a case of decreasing port length?
     
  5. Liammonty123

    Liammonty123
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    4th order HPF at 17hz also!
     
  6. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    The pics are cut off at 20m/s and there is still a way to go above there, it has also gone well past xmax in the mid 20s Hz and is well under xmax under tune. This is likely overdriving the driver and is definitely overdriving the port (which will be compressing).

    Of course you may not get anywhere near those levels in reality, depends on how you plan to actually use it, what you plan to power it with and what room gain looks like (if you know this then you have a better idea of the response shape you want from the sub)
     
  7. mkohman

    mkohman
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    This is purely for home cinema (movies), I am planning on purchasing an inuke 6000dsp or 3000dsp but more than likely it'll be the 6000dsp as the price difference is worth future proofing...

    As I mentioned above I am open to different cabinet sizes as long as the depth is no deeper than 60cm maximum.. My ideal would be 50cm and can be wider.. If the Euro Spec (1st image) is more suitable for this build then I am happy to go with that cabinet size . Please find attached my room correction which may give you a better idea about my room gain and current subwoofer performance.

    In your experience will the Dayton in a mini marty be far more superior in terms of deep and gut wrenching bass than the monolith plus? This may be a silly question but the one thing I don't want to do is go through all the hassle to build and not notice any difference... Thanks for your help!
     

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  8. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    it will have loads more output in the 15-30Hz without doubt.

    FWIW it's probably more realistic to model an inuke at ~1600W than 2000W, with that and a 17Hz BW HPF then I get displacement like

    upload_2018-1-10_8-14-55.png

    and port velocity

    upload_2018-1-10_8-15-38.png


    for me, this is too high

    port vs driver output is like (driver in grey)

    upload_2018-1-10_8-17-26.png

    so you can see that the port is giving you the wobble you get from 15-25Hz output, high velocity means compression which means the output from the port will decrease and the driver will start working harder. i.e. it's a form of distortion in that the signal compresses under load. If you plan to use this to the full then I would tweak the design to bring port speed back down. If you're not really going to play this at full volume then it's less of a concern, adjust power til you get to a reasonable SPL level and then see what port velocity looks like.
     
  9. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    I was about to say "I guess you used a 4th order hpf in the earlier model (hence the big difference between before and after tune excursion)" but then I see Liam posted that last night already :)

    The hpf in the inuke is a BW2 (and stays roughly BW2 shaped when you use the workaround to get a <20Hz HPF) and this is generally sufficient to achieve a good result.

    The one unknown is whether to model with the large coil option or not. Large Coil Simulation Issue And Adjustment.pdf suggests yes for this driver. You can do this in hornresp and you will find the simmed results are quite different if you do.
     
  10. Liammonty123

    Liammonty123
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    Basically I modelled so the last bit of juice would be squeezed from the driver. Port veloctity in the model was at 22 I think. For me this is still fairly acceptable in the volume limited model. Tuning at 18 or 19 may be better for 240l and may also bring velocity down. At xmax and with around 1600w port velocity is around 19ms which imo is fine.
     
  11. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    The numbers/graphs I quoted come from Hornresp which is more accurate/reliable than winisd. As I said though, it is only relevant if you are going to cane it so I probably wouldn't worry too much as it will still have bags more output than a monolith. You also have to compromise somewhere if you want a given tune and have a certain amount of space to play with.
     
  12. mkohman

    mkohman
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    @mattKhan and @Liammonty123 thanks for the input and help/advice you are providing me with [emoji106]

    To give you a better idea of my room layout please see the pics attached.. Basically the mini marty will be placed in the same location as my Monolith seen in the picture.. It is almost half way into the room from the screen and it will be facing from left to right of the room firing towards the right of the room.. The monolith was down firing so I guess that may have been more ideal but again I may be wrong.. IMG_20180109_211223143.jpg IMG_20180109_211243161.jpg IMG_20180109_022630346.jpg IMG_20180109_211255540.jpg IMG_20180109_024036056.jpg
     
  13. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Just to throw a spanner in the works, I was recommended to also consider the "Cyclops 18" build which can be found here:

    http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2166753-cycle-ps-18-a.html

    This may be a better option as it is 18" in dept and only 24" tall so won't exceed my current monolih height or depth , it will just be wider which I have the space for as seen in pictures above.. Similar to the mini marty but on its side if you like.. Any thoughts @mattkhan and @Liammonty123 ? :)
     
  14. markymiles

    markymiles
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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  15. mkohman

    mkohman
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    There is another one I have been eyeing up it's kind of a mixture of the cyclops and the mini marty.. It's 36 x 36 inch box, 18" deep with side firing port designed by LTD02 from AVS forums.. Here is a picture of it..

    I'm actually torn between the above two and the mini marty subwoofer Design.. Not sure which will sh*te better in my room.. c30ad8f1_cyclopssquare.jpg
     
  16. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    basically it doesn't really matter too much what shape it is as long as the enclosure volume and port length/CSA are about the same, i.e. these designs are going to perform v similarly and they also generally aim to minimise waste from sheets of MDF. If you don't care about that (i.e. your wood costs go up but you have the shape you actually want) then just roll your own box.
     
  17. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Cheers @mattkhan which would you say is more suitable for my room and what is it you think needs changing in @Liammonty123 enclosure measurements if any of course.. ?
     
  18. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Just got a notification so better decide which enclosure to build soon [emoji6][emoji106] Screenshot_20180110-160833.png
     
  19. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    how loud do you listen?
     
  20. mkohman

    mkohman
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    To be honest with you with the HTM-12's I can't go louder than around - 28db as it's too loud and it's plenty to fill the room completely.. So maximum I would ever Listen to in this room and these conditions would be - 20db I would say..

    I am not sure if this has anything to do with running the HTM-12's with the AVM60 along with my EMOTIVA XPA 5 with balances XLR cables as the signal is clean and loud..or it may also be room gain..

    In all honesty I like @Liammonty123 design the most the mini marty.. I can go wider and a bit shallower in depth if it's possible.. 18 inches is optimum depth for me along with max of 1m height and width is no issue but then again @Liammonty123 measurements are also very similar to my requirements.

    If you think you could come up with something similar then please let me know I'm open to ideas.. Thank you
     
  21. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    I assume you don't run with some enormous house curve either then? If so, you won't need loads of power then and any of these designs will do just fine. Liam's looks perfectly good to me so if that fits best then go for it :)
     
  22. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Sorry @mattkhan, didn't really understand what you mean by "run with some enormous house curve".. I think I'm going with the mini marty.. Gotta go out in a bit so may pop in my local B&Q on my way back [emoji23][emoji106]
     
  23. mattkhan

    mattkhan
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    enormous house curve = sub very loud relative to mains
     
  24. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Oh no.. Not really I like it to be same volume and not noticed untill it's needed.. Usually crossover at 90 hz.. [emoji106]
     
  25. PsyVision

    PsyVision
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    Did you order it from PE in USA? Big shipping hit if so?
     
  26. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Yes I did.. Shipping with shipito would have cost $168 with PE its cost $133 + $90 including tax and vat..All in with $20 discount it came to £370.. You mean they charge alot?
     
  27. PsyVision

    PsyVision
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    No I meant was it more expensive getting it from the US as opposed to the UK/EU. Sounds cheaper...
     
  28. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Oh Sorry Rich, I misread your message.. Well I think the only place you can purchase it from Europe is this place :

    UM18-22

    Which I believe is £393 and I don't believe that's including delivery or taxes/vat... So the cheapest was from PE from the USA.. It still stings though as the the delivery and customs fee is almost the same price as the actual driver [emoji23] but I guess it's either that or another driver but that's the one I had my heart set on [emoji106]
     
  29. Liammonty123

    Liammonty123
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    Thats the trouble for us in the UK. All the great US stuff is so expensive to get over! I would have gone dual ultimaxes but at around 800 for both just too expensive!
     
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  30. mkohman

    mkohman
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    Very true.. Although if I was going dual I probably would have also purchased another driver as you say it costs too much otherwise.. However as I'm only going to build 1 I figured the ultimax would be my best option for what I need [emoji106]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018

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