Question Migrate from Monitor Audio Apex to Elac Uni-Fi Series

was1m

Active Member
I have been playing with a few ideas with regards to potentially moving away from my Monitor Audio Apex 4 x A10 1 x A40 setup to 4 x floorstanders as the kids are older and have enough pocket money to pay for damages! I wont be spending much more than i make from the sale of the MA's

The Apex's have been awesome and so do you think it is worth upgrading?
Does anyone have any consider the Cambridge Audio AeroMax 6/Kef Q550/Fyne Audio F302 as an upgrade to the A10's?

Not very technical when it comes to speakers so hoping to get thoughts!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I would see those as downgrade to what you have now. Not sure why you are considering 4x floorstanders, multichannel music perhaps? What is your usage % movies/music?

You didn´t mention anything about subwoofer either. If you don`t have one then adding quality woofer will make dramatic difference! When blended in perfectly you most likely wouldn´t be thinking toward floorstanders anymore.
 

was1m

Active Member
Thanks for the intervention Gasp3621

I do indeed have a sub (MA MRW-10) and everything is powered using a Denon AVR-X2300W. I rarely do music mostly movies (80/20) and I suppose not knowing much about the physics i assumed having floorstanders would out manoeuvre the satellites. This coupled with the reason that i was considering moving the fronts off a shelf to stands was going to set me back £200+ for another 2 stands.

Regarding the 4 x floorstanders you are probably going to say if i don't need music then i don't need floorstanders? I wanted 4 similar surrounds because in the ideal scenario (which i am working towards) my TV viewing is perpendicular to a potential PJ viewing setup. That probably sounds really weird! So if i had all 4 surrounds the same I was hoping someone had invented a speaker switch/matrix type thingy from which i could switch the config.

If you hadn't guessed it already, despite my 15 years loitering, I am still a novice!

The best option i have been provided for a migration/upgrade is for Elac Uni-Fi Series so I am going to change the title of the thread and do some investigation on these.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
The Uni-Fi`s aren´t most ideal speakers specifically for movies. Especially with the receiver you have. But do more studying of them if intrested. Still i think you could make your system sound much better...

You wouldn`t be driving the floorstanders as full range so you don´t gain that much. One big issue you have is the MR-W10, forgive me saying but it´s cheap crap! It has no business in your system, i have seen data for it and it´s typical very cheap package sub that measures poorly! One member just bought Arendal 1961 1S sub with Apexes after some cheap sub and it made world of difference. There is of course many great options to pick from regarding your room size/requirements, but sadly they aren´t cheap (400£ upwards).

One change members have done with Apexes is they have bought A40 as main channels like @sanjualf below. Also notice quality subwoofers dealing the low end and 2-3k£ receiver running them!



The stands are really expensive and i tried to look gumtree and ebay, but they are at 200£/pair. Forum advertiser AVO has 178£ white apex stands and over 200£ black ones. You could always try your luck by putting wanted add.

I wonder how they would look if you buy just normal stands which has small enough top plate for the "table stand" on A10, so that it wouldn`t look as goofy.. You can find normal 600mm stands for 50£/pair upwards.
 

was1m

Active Member
Thanks - input much appreciated.
You are right about the sub! My original Boston Acoustics broke down a few months out of warranty so this was a cheap quick fix a few years ago and so will tackle this.

Done some reading and I dont think i need floorstanders so we are over that now! I have heard the idea of the A40's used like that before. Are there any speakers out there that can be considered competition to the A40's in your opinion that would sit nicely on stands?

The Amp, along with the Sub, will be going soon so do not have their place cemented in this setup.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks - input much appreciated.
You are right about the sub! My original Boston Acoustics broke down a few months out of warranty so this was a cheap quick fix a few years ago and so will tackle this.

Done some reading and I dont think i need floorstanders so we are over that now! I have heard the idea of the A40's used like that before. Are there any speakers out there that can be considered competition to the A40's in your opinion that would sit nicely on stands?

The Amp, along with the Sub, will be going soon so do not have their place cemented in this setup.
Well if sticking with Monitor Audio and you would imagine using the A40 then Silver 50/100 could be close enough. Certainly similar level and they offer also gloss finishes to match Apex. Especially the Silver 100 would be closer to some floorstanding speakers in terms of capability.




 

was1m

Active Member
Quiet day at work today and so got a fair bit of AV education done under Gasp3621's mentorship! Become a bit of a Magnat fanboy after bumping into their Humidor bookshelf speakers, especially since I found them at £200 each which i believe is a steal. Still very tempted to buy 4!

Further education led me to these LCR breed of speakers and THX certified systems and these seem to lend themselves to my needs (80% movies). specifically I have been drawn to the following:

Arendal 1961 - new series coming June/July and cheaper than the 1723's
Magnat LCR-100 - I have become a Magnat fanboy!
Monolith 365T/365C - great value for 3-ways and Atmos added

I think I may be tempted to build a new 3.1 system and go 5.1 as time goes on that way i can tackle the important subwoofer issue and get an amp to match.
 

was1m

Active Member
Looks like we are dealing with a full system upgrade now and i have convinced the boss that the feng shui isn't right and so also re-arranging the viewing area. This involves moving a radiator and a load of cabling re-laying but should be manageable.

Been looking at components involved and I have few options on limited time only regarding subwoofers and wondering if anyone could help decide between the XTZ 12.17 Edge and the Magnat Cinema Ultra SUB 300-THX. Now I know the XTZ is highly regarded on this site and indeed globally so just wondering in anyone has and idea on the capabilities of the Magnat? This device has impressive write ups and specs but seems mainland Europe only.

Otherwise on the speaker front I have been speaking to representatives from Arendal & Monoprice as well as keeping an eye out on the classifieds.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Looks like we are dealing with a full system upgrade now and i have convinced the boss that the feng shui isn't right and so also re-arranging the viewing area. This involves moving a radiator and a load of cabling re-laying but should be manageable.

Been looking at components involved and I have few options on limited time only regarding subwoofers and wondering if anyone could help decide between the XTZ 12.17 Edge and the Magnat Cinema Ultra SUB 300-THX. Now I know the XTZ is highly regarded on this site and indeed globally so just wondering in anyone has and idea on the capabilities of the Magnat? This device has impressive write ups and specs but seems mainland Europe only.
Quiet day at work today and so got a fair bit of AV education done under Gasp3621's mentorship! Become a bit of a Magnat fanboy after bumping into their Humidor bookshelf speakers, especially since I found them at £200 each which i believe is a steal. Still very tempted to buy 4!

Further education led me to these LCR breed of speakers and THX certified systems and these seem to lend themselves to my needs (80% movies). specifically I have been drawn to the following:

Arendal 1961 - new series coming June/July and cheaper than the 1723's
Magnat LCR-100 - I have become a Magnat fanboy!
Monolith 365T/365C - great value for 3-ways and Atmos added

I think I may be tempted to build a new 3.1 system and go 5.1 as time goes on that way i can tackle the important subwoofer issue and get an amp to match.

What size room you have and where you live as you have posted models that are not available in UK?
 

was1m

Active Member
I am based in the UK and become very comfortable with buying from European mainland recently as used to travel around a lot with work. Not so much now obviously.

I guess the only models not freely accessable in the UK are the Magnats are these the ones you are referring to? Do good kitchens also apparently! ;)

Otherwise the only new players are the Monoprice speakers? I may have referred to them as Monolith's sorry! Centre channel is HERE & Fronts HERE - the L&R are quite cool with the Atmos built in.

Our viewing room is 3.8m x 4.6m with ceiling height of 2.5m. We currently view across the 3.8m side but now changing to view across the 4.6m length.
 

was1m

Active Member
Guys just a quick update. Given all that has been said above coupled with my learning's this plan has escalated into a full blown project this weekend.

AMP: I started the weekend looking for a Denon X3600H as it seemed the best in my situational needs and budget. I ended up with a X4500H as i stumbled across a ebay sale which meant the difference between the 2 units was only £60.

SUB: I am ready to press the button on the 12.17 Edge from XTZ due to the current price point. The only thing stopping me is the presence of the Magnat Ultra 300 THX Sub Lots of scientific European reviews and they all seem to enjoy it.

SPEAKERS: I really like the idea of the 3 x A40 Centres. I also really like the idea of the Monoprice Monolith 365C/365T/265B setup as you effectively get 4 Atmos channels to go with your 5 speaker setup. Guys at Audioholics seemed to enjoy it and i believe they are fairly independent. The rest of the competition is unfortunately too expensive. Namely new Arendal's/XTZ's/Magnat's and second hand M&K's/PSA's

Only spanner in the works are these Definitive Technologies CS range of speakers I have come across and trying to understand what they offer.

Any thoughts welcome!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Guys just a quick update. Given all that has been said above coupled with my learning's this plan has escalated into a full blown project this weekend.

AMP: I started the weekend looking for a Denon X3600H as it seemed the best in my situational needs and budget. I ended up with a X4500H as i stumbled across a ebay sale which meant the difference between the 2 units was only £60.

SUB: I am ready to press the button on the 12.17 Edge from XTZ due to the current price point. The only thing stopping me is the presence of the Magnat Ultra 300 THX Sub Lots of scientific European reviews and they all seem to enjoy it.

SPEAKERS: I really like the idea of the 3 x A40 Centres. I also really like the idea of the Monoprice Monolith 365C/365T/265B setup as you effectively get 4 Atmos channels to go with your 5 speaker setup. Guys at Audioholics seemed to enjoy it and i believe they are fairly independent. The rest of the competition is unfortunately too expensive. Namely new Arendal's/XTZ's/Magnat's and second hand M&K's/PSA's

Only spanner in the works are these Definitive Technologies CS range of speakers I have come across and trying to understand what they offer.

Any thoughts welcome!
Nice find with the receiver, well worth the extra bucks!

The subwoofer is not familiar or talked often here or AVSF. It has passive radiator design which is closer to ported with the benefit of having smaller cabinet. No port noise also. But the frequency response doesn´t have -3db spec. I don´t like when manufacturers leave it out. No idea of the warranty and how reliable these are. XTZ should be good choice if going with the 12.17 Edge model or perhaps similar deal from 1x12 Cinema. You just missed the last one manuf. refurb SVS PC2000 at 600£.

I didn´t know those Monolith speakers are available for EU customers. :) They are certainly intresting option. Shame they don´t make models without the bouncing drivers. One thing to keep in mind with the atmos modules is you can´t angle them specifically, you would then angle the whole damn speaker and not sure is that so wise. And for that 4,6meter listening distance i don´t think they work best. It´s often around 1,5-3meter the sweet spot for them. You also need flat and reflective ceiling for the upfiring to work.

As a general rule having the seat against rear wall is not ideal, unless you can treat the rear wall. If possible keep couch closer to front stage. Going by book one recommendation is couch 38% from rear wall length wise, but you do what you can.
 

was1m

Active Member
The Monoprice Monolith Speakers are available on Amazon UK/Ebay UK and they have a UK shop now at monoprice.uk. I like some of the stuff on there especially the speaker wire and AV stand.

Speaker Wire HERE & HERE
AV Stand HERE
Just seen this Speaker Stand - HERE

Using the Monolith Centres as fronts will work apparently but maybe not for someone like you who i guess is a serious Class A Audiophile?!
I wanted to get the towers for rear surrounds as well but may have to settle for the Bookshelves 265B as budget is getting stretched.

@Gasp3621 - any idea if 4 x Definitive Technologies BP9040 towers could ever replace a system with just 1 traditional sub? I have seen some of your comments on that thread which made me think you may know what these are all about?!

I didnt know much about the differences between the 3600H and 4500H but these forums were useful as always as was your input which i often came across. Realised it was probably the better choice if i was potentially running all 9 channels.

Where was that sub i missed! On the classifieds?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
The Monoprice Monolith Speakers are available on Amazon UK/Ebay UK and they have a UK shop now at monoprice.uk. I like some of the stuff on there especially the speaker wire and AV stand.

Speaker Wire HERE & HERE
AV Stand HERE
Just seen this Speaker Stand - HERE

Using the Monolith Centres as fronts will work apparently but maybe not for someone like you who i guess is a serious Class A Audiophile?!
I wanted to get the towers for rear surrounds as well but may have to settle for the Bookshelves 265B as budget is getting stretched.

@Gasp3621 - any idea if 4 x Definitive Technologies BP9040 towers could ever replace a system with just 1 traditional sub? I have seen some of your comments on that thread which made me think you may know what these are all about?!

I didnt know much about the differences between the 3600H and 4500H but these forums were useful as always as was your input which i often came across. Realised it was probably the better choice if i was potentially running all 9 channels.

Where was that sub i missed! On the classifieds?
Haha, no i`m not. Far from it! I think you should first get the new sub and then setup the new Denon. I mean it could sound much better and maybe make you re-think for spending.

I don`t know much about the DT speakers, just read few reviews. AVSForum (US) has owners thread for them if you need to ask something. I just commented for the guy as he has 12x6m room that he needs something different than the sub he was looking. The built in woofers wouldn´t be able to fill that massive space.

Example from the DT9040 review about the subwoofers. Klipsch sub costs 500£ and the XTZ you are looking is much better. US guys runs some large subwoofers with these speakers!

With the Pioneer system we used a Klipsch R-110-SW 10-inch subwoofer, which had much deeper and more powerful bass than the BP9040 system's two 8-inch powered subs -- it was a difference we could literally feel! So when we pummeled both systems with the "Deadpool" Blu-ray's nonstop mayhem, the BP9040 lacked the visceral punch of the SP-EFS73 system.


AVO forum advertiser usually gets some SVS refurb products and sells them for good price. Sadly they go fast.
 

was1m

Active Member
Those guys are local to me. Bought cables and the sub and i just sold from there! Good guys always done a good deal for me when visiting them. Didn't realise the links to here.

Since sub has gone XTZ sub on order - my system is disappearing in front of my eyes. I am now only running off TV speakers!

Not buying into the DT towers for my needs but I really like the Def Tec CS9060 Centre. That's the version without the active sub built in.
What is there stopping someone have 3 x CS9060 centres for LCR? Then a few SR9080's scattered around.
 

was1m

Active Member
My old amp is now sold in the classifieds and we are gathering momentum now!

My latest research has been around using 3 Centre Speakers as LCR and so came across the Emotiva's/Def Tech's/Polk LSiM's and then finally hit upon the KEF's. Then realised the Q series are on 20% off at the moment and things are coming together nicely now.

Does anyone know if there is a huge difference in the Q250c vs R200c technology? I am guessing in each iteration of the Q's they get closer to the previous version of the R's?!
I cannot stretch to the newer R2c price bracket unless i go 3.1 and build up from there.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Q250 is 2-way, R200 is 3-way. The latter has better cabinet, drivers and audio crossover components. Again i don´t see Q range as upgrade to what you have now. It´s KEFs budget range and Apex is quite far from that (Monitor range).

I still think you should save up for something more expensive or look to buy used speakers from higher ranges. Personally i would have waited before selling your speakers cause they are going to sound better with X4500H + XTZ sub.
 

was1m

Active Member
Many thanks for the input Gasp3621 - maybe i fell for the 20% off promo! I take it despite there diminutive size these MA's I have are actually the real deal?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Yes the Apex range is based partly on older Silver range plus the tweeter may be similar what was used in older Gold range as @ShanePJ has pointed out. Cabinet structure is high quality too, something cheaper speakers often compromise. The A40 model is quite tall/wide while being tad slimmer. It has very high power handling, max spl capability and 90db sensitivity so not slouch on that side either.

@fayeanddavid used 5x A40 in he`s system before he swapped to XTZ Cinema M6.

@Harkon321 had 3x A40, now moving to MK Sound in-wall speakers.

The receiver upgrade should be noticeable with better room correction when you setup it correctly. And the subwoofer you ordered is going to give very dramatic difference to that poor MRW10 and for movie system it can transform it completely. I wouldn`t be suprised if you consider adding second at some point to gain the advantages of dual woofers. You will be hearing and feeling new things and most importantly you have something which is good quality to be more on par with rest of system.
 

was1m

Active Member
My speakers will now be withdrawn from sale. It's an itch I think we all get now and again?

These A40's are holding value in the new market still i see - I would love another 2 (minimum!). I think the beauty of these series is there size making it quite easy to locate them. That's the main reason i ended up with them in the first place.
 

was1m

Active Member
That is it! Thats what I have! My wife has actually told me I need to seek professional help about this.
 

Harkon321

Well-known Member
What would you were looking for by upgrading?
 

was1m

Active Member
Honestly - all i can say is satisfying an itch.

Otherwise as mentioned they suit the room in terms of size. I don't think we are serious audiophiles but we still find ourselves looking behind us when watching movies which probably says a lot about the quality of this kit.

Given the new kit I have already purchased, if i now get this room re-arranged and then set everything up properly I will see an upgrade. I definitely want to add a couple more A40's though. Maybe even a couple of cheeky A10's!
 

was1m

Active Member
Honestly - all i can say is satisfying an itch.
I don't think this statement was 100 % accurate after reviewing it. I think I was after a few things which led to the decision to migrate.
  • We are changing the layout of the room meaning we will be over 1m further away from our screen.
  • Adding the required speakers to existing system requires cash at a level that makes you consider what else is out there.
  • I was after something built for movies/tv - that's when i came across these THX certirfied systems above which led me to some of the obscure brands mentioned in this thread.
  • Also there was a window of opportunity to get this done now if it was to be done otherwise I will stick.
Came across the below thread last night which is almost like the same situation I am in:

Apex Upgrade Thread from 2018

Also i keep seeing these XTZ M8's on sale at the moment.
 

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