might think about becoming a vegan

jay mc

Novice Member
Even vegans have blood on there hands and most of the biggest groups pushing for vegan life styles and animal rights are liars and hypocrites.

One of the growing causes of deforestation in the amazon is soya production aimed at the growing numbers of vegans and vegis. The result more vanished and dead wildlife and there for blood on the hands of vegans. No wonder you dont see peta and co trying to protect wildlife and wild areas..
 

sniffer66

Distinguished Member
We could apply your logic to eating humans as apparently they taste like pork.

It was a joke, but yes, I've read that somewhere as well.

...but then thousands of years worth of man-eating big cats can't all be wrong :D
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Hi LGS

If you are serious about this, could you explain in your own words why you would wish to become a vegan?

Are you already a vegetarian?
only serious in as much as the video shocked me.Mistreatment of animals has always been a bit of an issue with me but i dont have the moral strength of character to follow even a vegetarian let alone vegan lifestyle.I admire people who do and know some as well.None have health issues as some have aluded here,indeed one did have until she adopted a vegan lifestyle .She is, of course, very careful about what she eats so as to get the full compliment of minerals and vitamins.
From my point of view and accepting that we as primates are mostly omnivorous, the issue is more about animal husbandry and, both , the kind and amount of meat I should consume.Again I would say that if I had any moral rectitude in this regard, I would only consume organic meats raised in appropriate environments and slaughtered humanely.Unfortunately price pressures tend to dictate otherwise as they do with most people, so i end up consuming the concentration camp animal products we all take for granted.I keep trying to tell myself that less meat ,but of a much higher quality, surely must be better both for us as consumers and the poor animals who would at least live something approaching a life even though it may be relatively short .Sometimes I think we should all at some point in our lives visit an abattoir ,maybe even kill a pig or two , see what it feels like before continuing our flesh eating habits.I would wager that some would alter their diets
 

DPinBucks

Distinguished Member
We could apply your logic to eating humans as apparently they taste like pork.
It's valid logic, but the compelling reason against it is disease. Generally, you can't catch anything nasty from eating other animals, but we are by definition not immune to anything another human may have caught. Cooking is not a protection in many cases.

The arguments against veganism made in earlier posts are valid, and mature adults are generally capable of ensuring they get a balanced diet. But what you must never, ever, do is put young children on anything approaching a vegan diet. In fact, there is a small but significant number of cases every year of serious malnutrion in children of affluent middle class families in western countries, US & UK especially, being raised on trendy strict dietary regimes.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
only serious in as much as the video shocked me.Mistreatment of animals has always been a bit of an issue with me but i dont have the moral strength of character to follow even a vegetarian let alone vegan lifestyle.I admire people who do and know some as well.None have health issues as some have aluded here,indeed one did have until she adopted a vegan lifestyle .She is, of course, very careful about what she eats so as to get the full compliment of minerals and vitamins.
From my point of view and accepting that we as primates are mostly omnivorous, the issue is more about animal husbandry and, both , the kind and amount of meat I should consume.Again I would say that if I had any moral rectitude in this regard, I would only consume organic meats raised in appropriate environments and slaughtered humanely.Unfortunately price pressures tend to dictate otherwise as they do with most people, so i end up consuming the concentration camp animal products we all take for granted.I keep trying to tell myself that less meat ,but of a much higher quality, surely must be better both for us as consumers and the poor animals who would at least live something approaching a life even though it may be relatively short .Sometimes I think we should all at some point in our lives visit an abattoir ,maybe even kill a pig or two , see what it feels like before continuing our flesh eating habits.I would wager that some would alter their diets

Good post LGS.

Personally I have no problem in killing an animal or fish then skinning, cleaning and eating it. Done it many times in the distant past.

Up until recently red meat (steaks, ribs, chops, leg, shoulder or neck) has been consumed in our household with great relish and enjoyment. Cooked in various ways (meat is so versatile) this has been a big part of our diet.

However, the last couple of years has seen a massive increase in the price of quality red meat and fish. Now we only buy cheap cuts and slow cook them (7 hours or so) with root vegetables. We are also cooking purely vegetable dishes like lasagna and moussaka.

So, we are slowly being forced to become more like vegetarians. This is not choice but financial pressure which has led to a change of diet. We are quite easy about this - change is inevitable and one has to bend with the winds of change (the pun is intended).

:(
 

jonasbry

Novice Member
We could apply your logic to eating humans as apparently they taste like pork.

Damn social rules and morals keep up from this!
 

chrismac

Active Member
Even vegans have blood on there hands and most of the biggest groups pushing for vegan life styles and animal rights are liars and hypocrites.

One of the growing causes of deforestation in the amazon is soya production aimed at the growing numbers of vegans and vegis. The result more vanished and dead wildlife and there for blood on the hands of vegans. No wonder you dont see peta and co trying to protect wildlife and wild areas..

Actually the vast majority of the soyabeans (I think its something like 90%) that come from the Amazon are used to feed livestock around the world.

Also, one of the (if not the) biggest cause of Amazon deforestation is cattle ranching.
 

DPinBucks

Distinguished Member
only serious in as much as the video shocked me.Mistreatment of animals has always been a bit of an issue with me but i dont have the moral strength of character to follow even a vegetarian let alone vegan lifestyle.I admire people who do and know some as well.None have health issues as some have aluded here,indeed one did have until she adopted a vegan lifestyle .She is, of course, very careful about what she eats so as to get the full compliment of minerals and vitamins.
From my point of view and accepting that we as primates are mostly omnivorous, the issue is more about animal husbandry and, both , the kind and amount of meat I should consume.Again I would say that if I had any moral rectitude in this regard, I would only consume organic meats raised in appropriate environments and slaughtered humanely.Unfortunately price pressures tend to dictate otherwise as they do with most people, so i end up consuming the concentration camp animal products we all take for granted.I keep trying to tell myself that less meat ,but of a much higher quality, surely must be better both for us as consumers and the poor animals who would at least live something approaching a life even though it may be relatively short .Sometimes I think we should all at some point in our lives visit an abattoir ,maybe even kill a pig or two , see what it feels like before continuing our flesh eating habits.I would wager that some would alter their diets
Don't confuse 'quality' with nutritional value. The main problem with junk food has been its high fat and sugar content. We need both in our diets, but in moderation. Good steak is inedible without a reasonable fat content, and one Big Mac and fries provides at least as much food value as fillet steak and potatoes. Of course, lots of BM's provide too much of other ingredients, so you have to avoid eating them in large numbers.

It is up to you to decide whether organic foods are the way to go, but as for food value there is no difference. The main issue is additives, which may or may not be harmful. Personally I believe not: we're all living longer despite a huge growth in what might be called 'junk' or 'non-organic' foods. If they were really harmful, even improvements in medical care wouldn't keep pace.

There is also an argument about intensive rearing of animals. It is too easy to anthropomorphise, and looked at rationally it is obvious that the most successful large animal on the planet, possibly even including humans, is the battery chicken. They have managed to manipulate us into producing them in huge numbers, and the fact they survive to be eaten in such a healthy state shows that they are not distressed. That being said, human sentiment does play a part, and I'm not a great fan of the process myself. But the fact remains that without them human malnutrition would be greater today.

Finally, I don't think squeamishness in watching animals being slaughtered would be a major factor if we educated it out of our attitudes. Most humans today and in all history have been more than happy to kill and prepare their own food.
 

jay mc

Novice Member
Actually the vast majority of the soyabeans (I think its something like 90%) that come from the Amazon are used to feed livestock around the world.

Also, one of the (if not the) biggest cause of Amazon deforestation is cattle ranching.

You may want to look a little deeper into that one, i will try and find some more links when i get home tonight but the fastest growing areas of deforestation is for farming crop and bio fuels. The fact remains that even vegans have blood on there hands and that many of the videos that make the net have been shot to make them seem worse or in many cases staged.
 

Mr Incredible

Distinguished Member
only serious in as much as the video shocked me.Mistreatment of animals has always been a bit of an issue with me but i dont have the moral strength of character to follow even a vegetarian let alone vegan lifestyle.I admire people who do and know some as well.None have health issues as some have aluded here,indeed one did have until she adopted a vegan lifestyle .She is, of course, very careful about what she eats so as to get the full compliment of minerals and vitamins.
From my point of view and accepting that we as primates are mostly omnivorous, the issue is more about animal husbandry and, both , the kind and amount of meat I should consume.Again I would say that if I had any moral rectitude in this regard, I would only consume organic meats raised in appropriate environments and slaughtered humanely.Unfortunately price pressures tend to dictate otherwise as they do with most people, so i end up consuming the concentration camp animal products we all take for granted.I keep trying to tell myself that less meat ,but of a much higher quality, surely must be better both for us as consumers and the poor animals who would at least live something approaching a life even though it may be relatively short .Sometimes I think we should all at some point in our lives visit an abattoir ,maybe even kill a pig or two , see what it feels like before continuing our flesh eating habits.I would wager that some would alter their diets

If you're prepared to pay a little more for your meat, Laverstock Farm do organic meats. Superb as well. Own and run by former F1 champion, Jody Scheckter.
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Don't confuse 'quality' with nutritional value. The main problem with junk food has been its high fat and sugar content. We need both in our diets, but in moderation. Good steak is inedible without a reasonable fat content, and one Big Mac and fries provides at least as much food value as fillet steak and potatoes. Of course, lots of BM's provide too much of other ingredients, so you have to avoid eating them in large numbers.

It is up to you to decide whether organic foods are the way to go, but as for food value there is no difference. The main issue is additives, which may or may not be harmful. Personally I believe not: we're all living longer despite a huge growth in what might be called 'junk' or 'non-organic' foods. If they were really harmful, even improvements in medical care wouldn't keep pace.

There is also an argument about intensive rearing of animals. It is too easy to anthropomorphise, and looked at rationally it is obvious that the most successful large animal on the planet, possibly even including humans, is the battery chicken. They have managed to manipulate us into producing them in huge numbers, and the fact they survive to be eaten in such a healthy state shows that they are not distressed. That being said, human sentiment does play a part, and I'm not a great fan of the process myself. But the fact remains that without them human malnutrition would be greater today.

Finally, I don't think squeamishness in watching animals being slaughtered would be a major factor if we educated it out of our attitudes. Most humans today and in all history have been more than happy to kill and prepare their own food.
well i am not a nutritionist but in the case of burgers,I would rather suspect it would depend on the quality of meat used as well as the amount sugar added.One made from fresh chuck steak would be fine but, if as jamie oliver recently alluded, they are mostly made from mechanically extracted meat and whatever nasties are mixed in with it , then i most probably feel inclined to avoid them.
Beef of course needs fat within it (or marbling as its called) to make it palatable and succulent but there is fat and then there is fat .That which comes from cattle feeding on pasture and kept in fields during their lifespan produces a much better cut than one fed on "feed" and kept in enclosures.Cattle are ruminant and not designed to feed on the kind man made proteins (as in dead animals) which contributed to the BSE outbreak.
Chicken kept in overcrowded conditions are most certainly distressed, that is why their beaks are cut off to prevent them attacking each other .They are given steroids to fatten them up quickly which means they emnd up with broken legs before maturity.
Whilst I accept people should be able to eat meat if they wish to, I do feel we have a duty to ensure those animals are raised and slaughtered humanely and treated with some dignity.They are, after all, sentient creatures like ourselves .Many hunter gather groups throughout the world understood the importance of treating animals they preyed on in the right way, with a certain respect.Intensive farming is barbaric and does not justify itself because most of us eat far more meat than we need to.Smaller amounts of better quality meat balanced out with the appropriate fruit, veg and grains would be better .

Finally, killing individual animals for our own food is one thing, systematically slaughtering tens of thousands of highly stressed animals as per video, is another.It is sometimes trumped that we are a nation of animal lovers who abhor the kind of cruelty practiced by those who kill and torture animals for pleasure.If that sense of morality were true we would change our eating habits
 
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Apsilon

Senior Moderator
We could apply your logic to eating humans as apparently they taste like pork.

"licks lips and looks at missus in a whole new light".......... :laugh:
 

digitalernomade

Novice Member
Indeed although not in the quantities we generally do now. The problem with absolutes is that you leave yourself open to exceptions. Some people are healthy as vegans in the same way that huge numbers of notionally omniverous people are not sustainably healthy in any way, shape or form.
You are absolutely right, Ed Selley! Being vegetarian or vegan doesn't mean that you automatically lack certain vitamins or that you are not healthy.
I know many omniverous people who have a vitamin B12 deficiency or iron deficiency.
A certain "Diet" neither makes you healthy nor ill.
 

Flynch191

Active Member
History has proven what is right and acceptable now maybe not be so in the future.
I like my meat too much to give up 100% but we have dialled it down a little. Everything in moderation I say. But current farming methods around the world etc is not the future imo. It just does too much damage to the planet. Something has to change. Back in the days it worked.. with today’s population maybe not.
So what about the future.. will we all be eating bugs?? Or maybe meat grown from cells so no animal is actually harmed... would the vegans then eat it...
So changing your eating habits depends if it’s for the animals, for life style change, health reasons, trying to remove the food and drinks that contains toxins from your diet... many reasons why everyone eats different.
I remember watching that show on tv where a family had to live with an animal for a while.. then decide whether to kill and eat it or change their eating habits... outcome was some people did change others didn’t care... and that basically sums us all up. We’re all different.
 

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