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Michael Howard to stand down

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Philly112, May 6, 2005.

  1. Philly112

    Philly112
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  2. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki
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    so thats 4 leaders in 4 years. :laugh:
     
  3. seany

    seany
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    Are you thinking what i'm thinking?

    :laugh:
     
  4. overkill

    overkill
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    :laugh: :smashin:
     
  5. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    well, he had a go and it did not work out. I dont think the tories will ever have the victory they want untill they can get a more dynamic leader of the party.
     
  6. Squiffy

    Squiffy
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    I think that regardless of whether you agree with their policies or their approach, the tories ran a very effective political campaign.

    A win was always going to be beyond them this time round.

    But they dominated the news agenda, were quite disciplined (apart from the Howard Flight incident), relentlessly pushed a very clear and simple set of messages.... And of course they were successful in their overall strategy of galvanising their own support and depressing the number of Labour voters being bothered to vote.

    Whatever you think of him, Howard was full of energy and handled himself quite well.

    Next time round they need to bring the shadow cabinet more into things. Assuming that by next time around they have some decent shadow cabinet members of course! :rolleyes:

    And for next leader? I'd like to see Liam Fox who IMHO is one of the most able MPs they have.
     
  7. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki
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    Is that an insult or a compliment? :rotfl:
     
  8. overkill

    overkill
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    So would I. Don't take that as a compliment to him either. His thinly disguised contempt for us mere 'minions' will switch off ordinary people faster than the Xmas lights in January. Go for it Tories! :D
     
  9. Squiffy

    Squiffy
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    He seems to have all the attributes to be PM though.

    i.e. he isn't fat, old or a slap-head. ;)
     
  10. kelvin

    kelvin
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    Yet presumably he wouldn't have considered himself "too old" to be the PM had the Tories stood a fighting chance of winning :confused:

    Sour grapes?! ;) :p
     
  11. overkill

    overkill
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    :rotfl: If only it wasn't true................. :rolleyes: Just think, under the new "must be photogenic rules", one of our greatest war leaders ever, Winston Churchill (ugly, fat, bald), would never have been PM! :eek:
     
  12. Squiffy

    Squiffy
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    Eh?

    They do stand a fighting chance of winning next time round.

    Howard is just making the valid point that he will be 67 or 68 at the next election. If they win, he could be PM until the age of 73. He doesn't want to go on that long.

    I think his decision is very sensible, although his timing really sucks.
     
  13. kelvin

    kelvin
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    Sorry... couldn't find the "tongue in cheek" smiley ;)

    I was referring to the fact that his decision seems to be an admission that he never truly believed that the Conservative's stood a chance this time. Had the Tories won, would he be admitting that he's too old? Would he be deciding now that he'd be too far past it to enter into the next election battle in '09?

    I doubt it, but then i'm no political commentator so it may be best to simply ignore me... :D

    "I know nothing"

    K.
     
  14. overkill

    overkill
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    Don't want to worry you squiffy old son, but you're saying all the things Labour voters were saying after the 87' election. We were wrong then too........ ;)
     
  15. danny daniell

    danny daniell
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    Just shows how naive & impressionable voters are these days doesnt it?.....politics is pure showbiz! :you dont think people really voted for Labour because of their track record or policies do you? :rotfl:
     
  16. smelly

    smelly
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    Well personally I wouldn't have voted for any of them for anything OTHER than their policies :D
     
  17. danny daniell

    danny daniell
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    Same here,but i cant fathom any other reason why Blair won other than pure showmanship.
     
  18. overkill

    overkill
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    No, they voted for Blair because they were scared of going back to "the bad old days of the Tories". Not my words, but those of virtually everyone I spoke to. They may have moaned about Blair (hell I do!) but, in the end the majority vote with what they think is best for their budget. As they did on 87 & 92. People were asked in 92' at the exit polls "why did you vote for Major"? The majority replied, "because the Tories (despite the wealth of evidence to the contrary) can handle the economy".

    Issues like Immigration, Iraq etc will only turn the election into an opposition victory, if enough people are convinced that the govt of the day can't handle the economy. Obviously they weren't.

    Oppositions can't win elections, govts can only lose them.
     
  19. danny daniell

    danny daniell
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    I always felt that the Tories made a decent fist with the economy(whats |Brown got to crow about? his greatest claim was handing interest rates to the BOE) O.k.....interest rates were higher under the Tories but property was under half the price so in real terms people arent any better off.
     
  20. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    If the Tories hgad any sense theyd go foir one of the young guns eg that Cameron fella. He'd probably attract the yoof vote.They also need to decide which direction they'll take (HOPEFULLY TO OBLIVION :devil: )
     
  21. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    DECENT FIST???? they plunged us into the worst recessioin since the thirties. :lesson:
     
  22. overkill

    overkill
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    Huh? Mass (long term) unemployment, huge interest rates, taxation (under the low tax govt) reaching record levels by 1997 due to 'stealth taxes', high inflation, the ERM fiasco, the EU loan scandels, the lack of govt support for British industry that saw the bulk of it sold off to foreign competitors, the use of high interest rates to cause unemployment and thus give employers the ability to force wages down, and thus creating long term (and continuing) debt problems. And thats just the obvious problems. Oh yeah, a blinding job! :rolleyes:

    Not to mention lying thru their teeth about every sector of the economy, so people thought things were much (much) better than they really were anyway. Never heard of that byword for figure fiddling, 'seasonal adjustment'? Well, it was real. I saw it going on first hand.
     
  23. danny daniell

    danny daniell
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    Ooh err,touched a raw nerve there! :D Wasnt that recession due in part to a worldwide downward spiral? The economy was in very good shape when handed over to Labour. :).. Btw my two candidates for Tory leader are David Davis & Seb Coe.
     
  24. overkill

    overkill
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    Hardly, since on both occasions the UK economy went into recession first. That tired old excuse is old news. I think Gordon Brown might disagree with that last statement - as would several civil servants. Clarke made all sorts of claims that we knew were not credible, as for one, the money supply was far weaker than he stated. He, like all his predessors relied on spin rather than reality to paint a rosy picture.

    Just being cynical, our dept was told in 96' that there was no money in the govt coffers to help prevent the ever spiralling problems we faced (CSA), yet, there was Clarke, in public, boasting about how much money the govt had.............. You can't have it both ways.

    Funny, a govts crass mishandling of an economy, that directly leads to you losing your job (on more than one occasion), then, finding out it they'd based their "success" on outright lies, does switch you off them a tad...............
     
  25. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    One way to ensure you will never again get votes from some people is to engineer it so they get the sack - like overkill - or like many people already sacked or about to be sacked by the haulage companies struggling with record high fuel prices.
    Another is to engineer it so that poor people become criminals.
    How did they do this? Unemployed people in rented accomodation had their council tax paid by their landlords and their rent covered that cost.
    When the poll tax was introduced, the landlords - being landlords - predictably did not reduce their rent by the amount of council tax they now didn't have to pay. Meaning that unemployed people suddenly had to pay poll tax on top of any current expenses. Forget any unwillingness to pay for a moment, and you'll find there were lots of people simply unable to pay.
    Yet this was not an allowed excuse when dragged into court by the council.
    So poor people were turned into criminals simply because they were poor.
    A classic example of how to ensure Labour will get at least 3 terms in power. Blair may be a loathsome character, but on the whole I think a lot of people are glad labour got in because losing a job or being dragged into court makes you pretty determined that the party responsible will never get your vote.
    What's going to be the longest queue in the next few years? The queue to wizz on Thatcher's grave.
     
  26. overkill

    overkill
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    :eek: However, I feel you're probably right Stuart. In this area, Mrs T is referred to as "that b****y woman". You don't need to ask who they mean.
     
  27. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    Seb Coe ?? Now you are having a laugh. David Daviss is too right wing. Think in terms of modernising the party and elect George Osbourne or David Cameron.If I was Tory my choice would be Ken Clarke. At least he is a Eurorealist
     
  28. overkill

    overkill
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    Same here. I've never understood why he keeps getting past over as people remember him fondly, even those of us who don't like the Tories. :confused: It's his stance on Europe, that in a right wing Tory party, doesn't go down too well. It's also proof that the party is still too far to the right to be palatable to the majority.
     
  29. MartinImber

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    Ken Clarke is one of my favourite Conservatives as well, he has that real person thing, David Davies - no thanks

    My suggestion would be Theresa May or bring back William Hague.

    LIam Fox looks like a clone of Peter Luff (used to be Worcesters MP before boundaries were redrawn
     
  30. overkill

    overkill
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    Hague is an intelligent man, he won't go for it having been bitten once! :D He also has the election losing 'bald factor'. ;)
     

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