1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

MF Trivista DAC ?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by TheSeer, Dec 7, 2003.

  1. TheSeer

    TheSeer
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    142
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Ratings:
    +3
    Hello

    Has anyone heard the new Musical Fidelity Trivista DAC? Its had some rave reviews in the press but I'd really like to hear views from anyone if they have auditioned / purchased this.

    Its proving very difficult to arrange an audition of this as the dealers I've contacted (admittedly only 2....) have sold the units they had and won't be getting any new stock until January.

    I'd appreciate any views / feedback people have on this product.


    Many Thanks
     
  2. 337GUS

    337GUS
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2000
    Messages:
    630
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    NE Scotland
    Ratings:
    +18
    Have a read of this thread over at HiFi Choice.

    http://forum.hifichoice.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=7615

    Had a quick listen at a HiFi show, sounded very good, but they were using a £2k CD player as transport and really expensive Tannoy speakers so it should have :)

    Gus
     
  3. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    I've not heard this one,but for what it's worth,HIFI News also reviewed it very well,and their previous DAC's have also been superb.
    Also worth a look is the Perpetual Technologies P1A/P3A combination,which for me anyway,has been the equal of many much more expensive DAC's and has also had very good reviews.
    Basically at that price range,be sure to try as many as you can.
     
  4. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    Stunningly good DAC but not sure about this Trivista thing, sounds like MF up to their usual tricks
     
  5. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    “Stunningly Good” seems to be the vibes of this DAC so far, and all from its humble RCA SPDIF input a not VIA a true 75ohm BNC input connection either shock horror : which I got roundly horsewhipped for ever finding accpetable in connections terms here a whilst back :wink:. FWIW dudes the review in HFW had it ran off a humble Marantz 6000 OSE & an Arcam CD72 IIRC. The HFN review had it downwind of a PT P1A correlation engine. Both reviews glowing but word on the street seems to back up the Trivistas reviews, Looks like a veritable bargain when head to head with a Chord 64 at new rrp IMHO. As Alex says they are plenty of other DACs out there if this one is hard to demo, The PT P3 DAC + P1A is a good bet you should be able to land a PT combo for £700, available second hand is the Chord 64 @ circa £1200+. The other DACs of corse is TAGs 24/192Khz AV32R or Pre32 Stereo Digital DAC/Pre-amp (one for sales direct from TAG direct for £999) these are also viable DAC options in their own right, the Pre32 is a bargain at £999 direct from TAG.

    Wait to till the Septics get their hands on this Trivista DAC they go potty over MF DACs on the Audioasylum (with Streophiles MF backing it must be said)
     
  6. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    If bought new,the PT P1A/P3A will cost $1800 via the net( www.av123.com )and really should be used together,as this is where most of the sonic improvements are derived....each component alone is very good in it's own right(I've got them both),but together they do make a superb combination,and more so with the dedicated power supply.

    I currently use the upsampler/interpolator to run CD upsampled to 24/96 into my Tag AV32R,and it makes a very significant improvement.
     
  7. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    Alex you may be very interested in this months HFN they have a reader system feature every month and this months HFN has a dude running the PT Combo (P3a-P1a) into a TAG Pre 32R or it could be a AV32R (Not sure), thence from here into a pair of Active ATC50s, via 12.5m of pure silver ICs (DIY), funnily enough it bodes the question of why use the P3a in fornt of a AV32R when you have a DACs at your disposal the quality of the AV32Rs, but this dude runs his system in this fashion, anyway I have heard good things of the P1a/P3a/Monolith PSU, the prices you quote above for the 2 box combo ($1800 / £1125) are good it used to be £700 a piece from UK suppliers when I checked a while back, I have seen a couple of P3a/P1as for £700 on the net a bargain at that price, The unit that makes PT a future classic of course is the24/96 P1A correlation engine, in fact its seen more these days without a P3a and another marques DAC on the end of it. Funnily enough here is what PT stuff sells regularly for on Audiogon in the US. :

    http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?dgtlconv&1074498571 For a 3 box combo : $1100 rip off Britain even at Av123s prices IMHO. There are plenty more there at that level of pricing FYI.
     
  8. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,895
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    I certainly wouldn't bother using a P3A Dac in front of the Tag,but the Tag's DAC's definitely sound better with the P1A in front of them,running them at 24/96.
    Definitely as you say,the real winner of the two items is the P1A upsampler,offering much of the functionality of dCS's machine at a fraction of the price.

    Thanks for the info...will have to find a copy of HFN.....not too many stockists round here.
     
  9. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    CJROSS

    just because the rca input is great, it doesn't mean it can't be better ;)
     
  10. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    PS Welcome back :)
     
  11. Spligsey

    Spligsey
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,054
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +136

    !bang!..............and we're offffffffffff.

    Adz
     
  12. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    Hehe Nic not bad, so there must be some truth then in the fact then that good ole RCA is accpetable to some people eh ? Oh BTW does “Great” equate to “Stunningly Good” then ;) Cmon yuou know Ive gotcha bang to rights !!

    Always nice to drop in when a DAC thread pops up out of the blue.

    CJ : Member of the ancient order of RCA users brotherhood.
     
  13. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    I am hugely impressed by MF latest effort and will say whether it uses RCA or not. I put this down to my arguments on the huge advantages that modern chips bring :)

    I am happy the RCA is acceptable to most people, what I always try and do is push for better quality at cheaper prices. An informer punter is generally a better one.
     
  14. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    So now RCA use is acceptable purely on modern chipset design in this case ? Hmmm Nic without trying to go through all our old wingdings on this sole subject (twas all I disagreed with you & some other high end users here BTW regarding DAC use) I find it funny how a standard design from MF in this design can suddenly make the RCA input an “acceptable” input all of a sudden (always has been with a good DAC to buff the signal up IMHO). I actually think MF have been a stalwart in DAC design for years, readily offering DACs at the same time as their CD ranges, in some cases offering DACs at substantial discounts compared to the same DAC section elsewhere in their Int. CDPs ranges costwise (ala £300 X24K/£800 Xray, £800 A3.24 DAC & this £1200 Trivista DAC) good on them. And all via this non audiophile regarded RCA connection that has been popped at on quite a few ocassions.

    Nic, I have no doubt that in the grand scheme of things BNC connections are better electrical connections than RCA, just as XLR/AES 110 ohm conenctions are better than BNC, but it would be remiss of me to not point out that you long championed BNC over RCA at all times, its an alternative Nic, but not the “be all & end all” of connections RCA is good enough connection on the right DAC the Trivista is not the first and it wont be the last to have good sounds from this type of connection, I think you will also find that BNC is not a cheaper connection type when you look at the CD manufactuers who price transports with this connection accordingly, I can think of a few BTW.

    BTW there is some interesting reading here for all interested in BNC v RCA connections.

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63678
     
  15. GaryG

    GaryG
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    744
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Ratings:
    +2
    Nice to see you back CJ!:D
     
  16. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    Why thanks Gary hope that old banger of an escort of yours is running well !! :D :D :D
     
  17. GaryG

    GaryG
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    744
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Ratings:
    +2
    :devil: :D
     
  18. TheSeer

    TheSeer
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    142
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Ratings:
    +3
    Well, I finally managed to audition the MD TRIVISTA DAC last week and also managed to beg it off the dealer for one night for a home trial - seems as if a lot of punters are interested in this bit of kit.

    I was comparing this to my current MF X24K DAC that I bought some years ago. In the dealer's demo room, I wouldn't say the difference was overwhelming between these two DACs and the situation was complicated by the fact that the rest of the system was different to what I have at home. The overall impression I got was that the TRIVISTA was playing better tunes than the X24K and was presenting more detail also. But it was hard to tell how much the unfamiliar system was influencing the sound. It was a case of 'further investigation required - no sale yet'.

    At home, I plugged both the TRIVISTA & THE X24K into an ISOTEK Substation and then fed both of them from the same Sony SACD player that I was using as a transport. The output from each was plugged into a different input on the Amp so I could do an instant A/B switching to compare the two DACS.

    Once the TRIVISTA was warmed-up listening commenced and the TRIVISTA seemed to be slightly more preferable to the X24K. I would be very pushed to say exactly what it was that led me to prefer the TRIVISTA. Switiching the Amp between the two DACs revealed that it was impossible to tell them apart and at that point I was slightly dis-appointed with the result.

    I then unplugged the TRIVISTA from the Substation and plugged it straight into a mains power socket. I had read that the TRIVISTA has a pretty well engineered power supply and thought that it might not benefit from the Substation. I left the TRIVISTA to warm-up a bit more.

    When I came back to the TRIVISTA and put on some familiar discs, the magic started. I would best describe it as one of the most relaxing listening sessions I've ever experienced at home. Words such as 'smooth', 'natural' come to mind. In terms of specifics, there was much more detail & resolution than the X24K and the bass was better formed. Also, subjectively, the TRIVISTA seemed to be louder (and may well have a slightly higher output level than the X24K).

    One of the more bizarre discoveries was that even with mono recordings from the 60/70's, the TRIVISTA filled the room with sound whereas the X24K just collapsed the recording into the space between the speakers and made everything much less engaging. The soundstage presented with the TRIVISTA was outstandingly wide, I heard sounds coming from well outside the position of each speaker, it was definitely the widest soundstage I have ever heard my system project.

    The real clincher however was my wife's reaction. She is someone who knows nothing about HiFi except what she hears from the system. Her reaction was 'its just so much smoother than before, much more engaging'.:eek:

    Overall very, very impressed. I can only guess what the TRIVISTA is capable of with more capable partnering equipment.

    I think I may well be placing an order....................:D

    So, what would be a good transport to partner this with?

    And is anyone interested in a used X24K.........?:rotfl:
     
  19. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    Seer previous to my current DAC (TAG DAC 20) I also has the good fortune to use a X-24K DAC for a couple of years, funnily enough some of the vibes you mention in going from a £300 DAC from yesteryear were evident in the first listening session with the DAC 20 ie the detail, resolution & bass performance all went above what the X-24K could do, cymbals playback is what stole it for me – a good comparsion of what I hear from vinyl setup was their but with more detail, Ive heard quite a few sub £1000 CD players and whats evident to my ears (IMHO), is that CD really starts to take off when you hit Int. CD players from £1200-1500, now going to DACs that are availble for £800 - £2000 then you hit a whole new ballgame over the Int CD region again to my ears. As a benchmark I kept the X-24K and used both in my system for quite a while before selling on the X-24K for what I paid fo it (small hint go onto Ebay and you will get more than £200 for it minimum) I also got the X-24K for its ability to accept pure 24/96 PCM data from the DAD 24/96 2 Channel DVD format (an early forerunner to DVD-A) and my Pioneer DVD player which sent out pure 24/96 PCM, now using this benchmark data ie pure 24/96 resolution PCM from the X-24K and using HDCD encoded 20 Bit 44.1 CDs playing via the HDCD DAC 20, the DAC 20 was a winner in all areas for me, even using the standard redbook CD of a 24/96 DAD disc I realised I had hit a very decent level of CD on my hands. Its not knocking the X-24K but just that your level of CD playback stepped up a notch IMHO.

    I actually think MF and their choke regualtion in their PS is quite central to why this DAC and the £800 A3.24 upsampler are so highly thought of in audio circles / reviews, your Isotek vibes make that comparison also. Ones of the dudes over on HFC also talked of his preference of this DAC over the uber DAC of the moment the Chord 64, Your vibes about the loudness being higher is probaly correct it seems a nice little touch that DAC makers are adding to their units, in demo cases this higher volume automatically gives the initial impression of a better unit (The Chord 64 has had this levelled at it by a few users) seems like MF are going the same route. FWIW the MF Trivista / DAC 64 user on HFC felt the Chord 64 was louder than the Trivista from the off but still preffered the Trivista.

    Transport wise well its has to be a Denon 2900 Universal SACD/DVDA/DVDV player with a £400 2nd hand PT correlation engine in between Denon & Trivista if you want to be “deadly serious”, if you liked the sound via the Sony ES SACD player though this will give you an idea of where a “suitable” transport lies will it not, ie you can go the “whole hog” and get a clocked CD transport of some sort, but I know the dude over on HFC is using an Arcam A82 CDP IIRC, I cant see what would be wrong with a good £750 ish universal player like the Denon as a starting point, a good DAC like the Trivista used of a universal is a great advert for having your cake & eating it with 3 differing formats as it were. Anyway good to hear your vibes of this DAC its certainly winning a few admirers.
     
  20. TheSeer

    TheSeer
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    142
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Ratings:
    +3
    Hello CJCROSS:



    What exactly does the PT correlation engine do? And why will it make a difference to the TriVista DAC? I'm really intrigued by this.



    This perception may well be down to the output level being slightly higher on the TriVista than the X24K, but the other possibility is that the perceived increase in loudness is actually due to the TriVista having a much lower level of noise than the X24K (higher S/N ratio ?)

    The other thing that impressed me mightly about the TriVista was the build quality - it is a very solidly constructed unit which weighs a bloody ton !! I should know, I had to lug it 200 yards to the car :(

    I think I'm going to hold on to my X24K - I'll feed the Freeview digital audio signal through it :smoke:
     
  21. CJROSS

    CJROSS
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    5,070
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +343
    The PT correlation engine is a device that takes a signal from your transport and does a number of things, it reclcoks the data to reduce the jitter output, and it also upsamples the input it recieves say from Cd @ 16/44.1khz to either 24/48Khz or 24/96Khz PCM to fire out of its digital output, its long been believed that higher spec PCM data signal are more impervious to jitter effects. This upsmapling is not creating any extra info, ie the level of info from the disc is still 16/44.1 but what you are getting is PTs stab at what it should sound like at 24/96 resolution not actually “pure” 24/96 PCM as recorded onto CD, I mentioned this if you are intent of wringing out the best of what the Trvista has to offer as the MF Trivista (And its A3.24 DAC stablemate) both accept 24/96 PCM input. (as does your X-24K). I would opt for one of these devices before using a clocked CD transport of some sort. £400 second hand and a future classic piece of kit, Alexs2 has one he is good guy to talk about them.

    I can certainly testify to listening to Freeview Digital Radio via a DAC as being a bona fide hifi source - superb, I was also listening to U-571 the other night on BBC3 via my TAG DAC damned fine IMHO.

    ATB
     
  22. TheSeer

    TheSeer
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2001
    Messages:
    142
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Ratings:
    +3
    Hello CJCROSS:

    Isn't this precisely what the TriVista is doing anyway, it is upsampling the incoming signal to 96KHz or 192KHz depending on your choice? I can't see why the PT correlation engine would add anything to this process.

    Again, I think I read somewhere that the TriVista is doing this anyway - but I can't be sure. I think I will check with MF.

    It would be nice if someone with a PT correlation engine might add their experiences to this thread....................:rolleyes:
     

Share This Page

Loading...