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Meridian 568/Sub settings

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by pidge22, Oct 24, 2004.

  1. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Hi,
    I have just setup my Meridian 568.1,a big improvemnt over the 561 I had before,next upgrade is to 568.2!
    The only problem is that the Sub(M&K 1250 Thx does not seem quite right in that it does not seem to "kick in" as before.
    On the 568's Pc configuration I have set the sub's to:
    Music None
    Logic mono
    5.1 Movies mono there is an option for 5.1 movies for Lfe but I am not sure what this is.. would changing to this improve things?
    I have the M&K 1250 Thx set to Thx settings as I believe the 568 is a Thx Certified processor?
    I have set the Sub to 77 db witha sound meter the rest of the speakers are set to 75 db.
    Any advice would be much appreciated.

    Pidge22
     
  2. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Whoops posted to the wrong forum... sorry Mods can you put in the correct one,Processors and Power Amps
     
  3. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Pidge, are you getting barely any sub output at all? If you are, it sounds like the same problem Operandi had with his 568, not sure what he did to sort it though. My 568 worked fine with my SVS...
     
  4. steve1056

    steve1056
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    Pidge,

    What are your speakers settings - small or large? If all small, I would recommend Mono for Music, Logic and 5.1. Also, you shouldn't need to set the sub higher than the rest of your speakers - are you setting up using the processor tones or using a test disc? If disc, which disc are you using?

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  5. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Matt,
    I will check Operandi's thread to see if that will throw some light om my problem,I am getting some output to thre sub.
    Steve,
    my fronts are set to large as they are Nautilus 804's,the centre and surrounds set to small as they are Nautilus Htm1 and 805's.
    I have set the Music to Mono as the 804's can handle the Bass its just 5.1 that I don't think is right.
    I set the speakers up with a digital Sound level meter and used the Pink sound generated from the 568 itself.
    Just a question here though does the 568 automatically set the test tone to 75 db or do you have to set the volume to 75db in order to get the correct volume level.
    (Pidge22 ) Paul
     
  6. steve1056

    steve1056
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    Paul,

    With the 568 test tones, you should set the speakers levels to read 75db - no need to adjust the volume (the 568 automatically sets the volume to 87, which I believe is reference level).

    Given you have set the front speakers to Large and others to small, you might like to try selecting the sub as Music = None; Logic = Centre; 5.1 = Centre. This will allow your fronts to provide all the necessary bass for music (if you select Mono, you will get bass duplication from your front speakers and the sub). In 5.1 mode, bass from your small speakers will be diverted to the sub with an 80 Hz crossover with the sub also handling LFE. If you choose LFE instead on the 5.1 setting, bass from small speakers will be diverted to any large speaker and only LFE will be output by the sub.

    Hope this makes sense. You should definitely not be finding a lack of bass.

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  7. jacovn

    jacovn
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    Are you sure the bas of the large speaker (under the crossover setting) ends up on the woofer when you select mono ?
    That should not happen. I run everything small, and that works OK.

    Large vs small will stay a discussion, but even somewhat larger speakers will have a hard time to play some movie information on the left and right channel.
    I can understand if you payed a lot of money for a set of speakers, and they look impressive you would think they ought to be large.
    But try everything on small as well, and just listen what sounds better for you. Spend some time to get a crossover frequency that intergrates the woofer with your speakers the best way.

    Jaco
     
  8. steve1056

    steve1056
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    Yes, 100% certain. That's what Meridian UK tell me happens on the 568 and it's also what I found personally. It's a setting that Meridian describe as "Bass Heavy", i.e. bass is duplicated on the Sub and R+L front pair. If Centre Sub is selected instead, known by Meridian as "Bass Neutral", this effect does not happen. Note that these descriptions only apply when the R+L front pair are set to large. It does not apply if they are set to small.

    As for trying all speakers small, I agree that experimentation is good to find the preferred setting. My own current set up with the 568 is different from the perceived norm in that I have all speakers set to large with the sub for LFE only. Why? Because after a year or so of experimentation, this was the only setting that consistently gave me the tightest, cleanest, deepest bass for all forms of DVD that I play (DVD movies, DVD music and DVD-A). Of course, when I next upgrade this could all change. The fun part of hi-fi and home cinema! :rolleyes:

    You will find a lot more really useful info on crossovers and speaker settings on this site http://www.softronix.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi. People are really helpful on the site too and are generally all experienced Meridian users. :thumbsup:

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  9. jacovn

    jacovn
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    Thanks Steve, To be honest i never tried it. I still think this is wrong, but if you know it happens you can avoid the problem. I know the Hitchiker guide to Meridian. Registered there as jaco.

    Jaco
     
  10. steve1056

    steve1056
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    Jaco,

    Never said I think it's right and I somewhat agree with you. However, I think Meridian's thought process is that by doing this with the Mono setting, users can have more bass, similar to a number of processors/receivers out there that have a setting for Sub+Fronts for bass, i.e. boosted bass. As Meridian also has a setting for Centre Sub (is this unique to Meridian?), I guess they would argue that you have all the alternatives. The problem is that to have both choices, you need to have two type settings and alternate between the two. Not that difficult, but still a pain in the ass!

    I've seen your posts on the Meridian forum. If I recall, you're one of the helpful and knowledgeable people I descibed. Don't you have 800 series stuff? If so, I'm insanely jealous! :thumbsup:

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  11. chrisgeary

    chrisgeary
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    another reason you might want to use mono mode, or duplicate bass, is to integrate a sub to operate beneath the bottom end response of your main speakers. ie you use it to obtain the best sub/mains room interaction rather that as "bass boost". of course this is flawed in itself because bass is not duplicated from the LFE channel to the mains (only from mains to sub) thus you lose information above the xover point used. at least thats my experience of it.
     
  12. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Hi,
    thanks for all the feedback currently have:
    Stereo None
    Logic Mono
    5.1 Lfe
    the fronts are set to Lge ananlogue,Surrounds and Centre to Sml Ananlogue's.
    Reasonably happy although I had to reduce the Sub considerably (about -17Db) on the Pink Noise test in order to run at 75db.
    Am I right to set the M&K V1250 to Thx mode as I am assuming the 568 is a Thx certified processor?
    Pidge22
     
  13. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Have you tried it with the fronts set to small?
     
  14. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Matt,
    if I the fronts were set to small what would you set the Sub to Lfe or Mono?
    Regards Paul
     
  15. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    LFE I would think?

    Try it, you might like the sound of the 804s better if they're not trying to reproduce bass - ultimately it depends on how good your subwoofer is too.
     
  16. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Hi Matt,
    i've always believed the sub M&K 1250 Thx with a rrp of over 1k to be very good,would you set to Thx settings with the 568?
    Paul
     
  17. steve1056

    steve1056
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    Paul,

    If you set the fronts to small, then you need to set the Sub to Mono. Any other sub setting on 5.1 will force the fronts to large on the 568. Also be wary of setting the sub level on LFE setting using the 568 tone. It seems 3-4db too low (at least it is on mine). Mono and Centre sub levels appear to set up OK using the 568 tones.

    THX setting on the 568 is fine and will use a default Xover of 80Hz.

    Steve
     
  18. chrisgeary

    chrisgeary
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    if you set all speakers to small, i dont think it matters hugely what you do with the sub mode on the 568 as all bass is redirected there anyway. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

    the way i see it, is movies are encoded with an LFE channel to 80hz or thereabouts. occasionally movies have LFE content in other channels too. this is usually missed when large speaker settings are used (unless you use high level to your sub of course, or your large speakers are very capable). also, most people dont have perfect rooms, so EQing the sub is a useful thing to do. again, with large speaker settings, you are not EQing the whole presentation and it wont work so well. and the final benefit, as i see it, is with 'small', the load of producing bass is diverted to a dedicated sub, which improves focus etc in the rest of the audio spectrum.

    i've tried it all sorts of ways and in my set up, all speakers set to small works best for me. i used to set mains to large and dupe the bass to the sub, but that was to make up for my old sub being unable to cope with redirected bass and LFE at just -10db.

    anyway, i won't go on about it, but you might take Matt's suggestion of trying all speakers to small and see if you like how it sounds?
     
  19. steve1056

    steve1056
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    Don't know about the 561, but not true for the 568. Only the Mono setting is appropriate on the 568 for all speakers set to small. If you select Centre sub or LFE, the front L+R speakers are forced to large (you can check this by looking at the "speaker sizes" in the set up program, where you will see that the front speaker settings are no longer greyed out).

    With Centre sub selected, bass from all small speakers below the selected Xover frequency is diverted to the sub, which also handles LFE.

    With LFE selected, bass from all speakers below the selected Xover frequency is sent to any speakers designated as large and the sub handles LFE only.

    Meridian confirmed all of this when I asked them last year.



    LFE can be encoded up to 120 Hz. On the 568.1 the Xover frequency adjustment applies to redirected bass for small speakers only. LFE is fixed at 120 Hz. On the 568.2 the LFE Xover frequency can also be adjusted. I'm not aware of any LFE ever being directed to anything other than the sub channel. LFE is the .1 in 5.1 or 7.1 and thus should only ever be directed to the sub (if a sub is present).

    Totally agree with you about Eq'ing, providing that it is done properly.

    Just as you found with your previous sub, while it does make sense to divert all bass to a single point, if you only have a smallish sub, you need to be careful that you do not overload it, resulting in large amounts of distortion or loss of bass due to a protection circuit kicking in.


    Steve
     
  20. jacovn

    jacovn
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    Yes, i do have the bigger black boxes. They work the same as the 500 series if it comes to bass managment off course.

    Jaco
     

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