1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Mega Plasma test 2 ???

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by hornydragon, Jun 2, 2005.

  1. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    OK people i guess there a few people who have joined since Feb when i undertook the first forum exclusive Plasma Mega test.... Since then we have seen prices fall and specs rise. The luanch of new models from Panasonic, Hitachi, Fujitsu and others!
    The previous test is below

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181457

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183227

    Now i came in for some serious stick after the last one (especially from NEC owners ;) ) However i am considering perhaps doing another one.

    So what i want to know is what do you guys think, how can it be better what would you like to see? would you like to come along? was anything missing from the last test? Hopefully it may be possible to do a run down of HD ready 42" and 50" for this one as 50" are growing in popularity. so come guys give me your ideas, needs and critisisms, this may be the only chance to see these screens in one place at the same time on a level playing field, so to those of you who have bought, need to buy soon and cant make it (dates etc all to be set later) i apologise i was going to make this a Poll but have decided to keep it as a standard thread, so get thinking peeps!
     
  2. Rahmorak

    Rahmorak
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    450
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Lake District
    Ratings:
    +10
    Sounds good. :)

    Things I would be interested to know are how well they handle motion (rainbows) and banding (posterisation) using some selected scenes. :)
     
  3. nicke20

    nicke20
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    874
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +13
    Why not before the test ask the forum to create a list of "Features/Factors" then if these are given a wheighting value in order of importance (Again forum voted for). Then when you evaluate each model for its feature or facor its score can be multiplied by the wheighting value and all scores added. I think this will give a more accurate result.
    Personaly I am hanging arround for the PHD8
     
  4. ukdan

    ukdan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,124
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    swindon
    Ratings:
    +84
    Would be nice to have the PHD8 (when released) in the line up too. Dont know if you would want to wait that long though.
     
  5. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    not a bad idea nicke but giving a % mark can be misleading as everyone will weight different features differently a FV tuner being a big plus for some and no use for others........ ( the PHD8 and new Pio oferings are due around the same time so perhaps Mega test 3? )
     
  6. Steve_P

    Steve_P
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,338
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    67
    Ratings:
    +142
    So what will be included in your initial group of testees? I presume Panny PV500, Hitachi 7200, Pioneer, Fujitsu & NEC? Any others? Philips/Sony/LG etc?

    Will you be testing different signal capabilities of the sets too? e.g. comparison of Analogue component against HDMI/DVI?

    Should make an interesting thread to read :D don't worry about "serious stick" I hear dragons have thick scales :p Not sure about the horny variety though.

    S.
     
  7. dilsher

    dilsher
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I would be up for being there Horny man!

    I would love to see a comaparison with and without scalers too - altho that may be pushing it for the majority here who dont wanna know about scalers??
     
  8. andye2004

    andye2004
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2004
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +31
    Will we be having any viera's in this test? Thinking about the PV500 and PE50 and would be interested in side by side comparisons of the PQ on both SD and HD, as I'm sure a lot of other people are :)

    If it includes these screens then I think it is a top idea :thumbsup:
     
  9. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    the screens to be tested will only be limited by availability i am sure we can include PV500 and perhaps PE50 too possibly could have a scaler bit too for the screens it all comes down to time and availability of kit, the last one was done in 12-18 hours this one will most likely have more prep time and a invitation for veiwng perhaps on a saturday morning
     
  10. voxmagna

    voxmagna
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Difficult to do independent PQ tests in controlled conditions and have something manufacturers and members would have credence with. Here's a few prequisites:

    Defined viewing conditions, lighting and viewing distances as per ITU/EBU recommendations.

    Members would probably want to know 'which panel is best'. How do you assess the PQ if there are different types of artefact showing up on the panels, each of a different type and to a different extent with different source material? Reporting their presence is easy, whether somebody is going to find them more or less noticeable is much more difficult.

    Reference source material: Hi def sources with known production and signal path from camera to HD recorder. Wide range of critical test material from a credible source designed to test how each manufacturer's 'in the box' processing handles different scenes frequently found in entertainment media.

    If you see an artefact on a panel during testing and it's only there for a short time, is that sufficiently annoying to an average viewer? What is an average viewer (or is it a critical forum member) and how do you rate artefacts that come and go with scene content and for different times?

    All plasmas fed the same way from distribution units first (are you looking at the interfaces or the potential in the glass, is one interface RGB/YUV/HDMI better than another?).

    Know and understand what you're looking for.

    All plasmas setup the same, highest quality test sources an order better than the panel under test, good photometer for colorimetry, contrast, brightness and grey tracking checks.

    Poor quality sources to see how they handle low res. noisy inputs a la DTT MPEG2.

    What menu 'feature settings' do you choose. As soon as you use them, you customise one panel performance against another.

    Comparison of a standard def. panel with a high def. panel, is it fair and how do you do it?

    Feature ranking, rather than PQ assessment, is a much easier excercise since we all probably know of something that's missing or could be done better. That's a yes/no decision rather than trying to rank perceptual quality. Manufacturers might show more interest since these are price/market issues, there is no argument and we can influence future products for forum members.

    As the quality of panels improves overall, the differences in PQ will become harder to differentiate unless you have the right lab conditions. I'll stick my neck out and say that most current generation well engineered panels will probably do most things well. Some will be better at some things than others and the viewer may find some artefacts more subjectively annoying, bringing it down to personal choice and what you mostly watch.

    Good Luck!
     
  11. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
  12. BIGMAX

    BIGMAX
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    740
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +18
    Giving the ISF boys a bit of advertising - Why not display a panel without callibration and the same one with.

    just an idea as a lot of members are singing the praises of this service.
     
  13. theo cupier

    theo cupier
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,649
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Amersham, Bucks
    Ratings:
    +113
    Could the new HD ready Samsung panels be included (subject to availability) these would be either the PS42P5H or PS42S5H - I think the two only differ in terms of numbers of the various connections provided.

    If you are doing HD panels, I'm very interested to see how they cope with SD inputs (eg Sky / Freeview and DVD) as well as with HD inputs. I think there are a lot of people interested in HD ready but who only have SD sources at present and want to know if these panels will cope with SD in the meantime...
     
  14. alliwant

    alliwant
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    i'd love to come along :)
     
  15. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    anyone else want to comment?
     
  16. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,070
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +669
    What I'd like to see:

    - 50" panels reviewed.

    - Impression of screens before and after ISF callibration.

    - All screens ISF'ed by themselves, then re-ISF'ed after a scaler is attached.

    - Report on which screens can be fed at native resolution, which ones require FRC, and other scaler-related issues.

    - Comparisons with a variety of sources, especially without a scaler (e.g. Sky, interlaced DVD output, progressive DVD output, Freeview, 720p high-def, 1080i high-def. It goes without saying that the last two are true high-def sources, not scaled-up SD.)

    The third of those is the most important one. The question "which screen has the best picture by itself?" and "which screen has the best picture when connected to a scaler?" will quite possibly have different answers. The Fujitsu P50XHA40US, for example, may well reign supreme when there's no scaler, not because of anything to do with the panel itself, but because its in-built electronics are closer in quality to a good external scaler than is the case with other screens. But nI wouldn't be at all surprised if a 50" Panasonic PV500 + scaler looks just as good as the Fujitsu + the same scaler, even if the Fujitsu is a clear winner when neither has an external scaler attached.

    Edit: Oh, and comments on usefulness as a PC monitor (which obviously connects into things like whether or not it can be driven at native resolution).
     
  17. The Cleaner

    The Cleaner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    I would lilke to see a degree of blind testing where the person appraising the picture is unaware of which set he/she is watching.
     
  18. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,070
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +669
    Oh, and if you're feeling really energetic, how about throwing a couple of LCD screens into the mix? The Sharp LC45GD1E would be an obvious candidate, so would be the 42" Philips 9930 if it's out by then. I reckon they could give the plasma screens a serious run for their money on 1080i material.

    Comparing with at least one DLP rear-pro would be cool too. :devil:
     
  19. The Cleaner

    The Cleaner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    This may be difficult to organise. However, i feel it would be worthwhile to cancel out any bias, preconceptions or brand loyalty.
     
  20. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    doing it blind means having one person completely out of the room some thick card to cover the frames.....
     
  21. The Cleaner

    The Cleaner
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    A real headache I know. But it would produce some totally objective results.
     
  22. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    I'll take it on board and see if its possible,

    Nicholas not after much are you?
     
  23. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,013
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,810
    NicolasB: Funnily enough your choice of Fujitsu is interesting as it's the one that really needs an external processor in order to shine.....imho.

    Gordon
     
  24. Toffer

    Toffer
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2005
    Messages:
    32
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +2
    :lease: Great idea, I'm just about to buy my first plasma and I'm a bit nervous, but if at all possible could you include a few of the smaller screens? I know people all seem to like the 42s and 50s but some of us haven't got a room big enough to be able to sit at the right distance from the screen to appreciate the picture properly.

    Thanks,

    Chris (Toffer).
     
  25. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    there really isnt that much difference between the 42" and smaller 37/32/32 (avoid the JVC 35 its terrible) howver under 42" there is a hell of a lot less choice...................
     
  26. pwood

    pwood
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,482
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Central Scotland
    Ratings:
    +137
    Definately compare performance with Standard SKY via scart and Freeview as this will be of major importance to a lot of us. Also would be good to compare A good bitrate channel like BBC parliment and an average one like MTV hits to see how the displays cope with lower rate sources.

    HD performance is also interesting as there are differences especially between panels like the Alis Hitachi 7200 and the likes of the Panny 500.

    Not sure how price can be brought into the assesment but if a is better than b then is a performance worth £££'s more.

    Blind assessment idea is a good one in fact probably the best idea so far IMHO.
     
  27. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    up we go any more ideas people?
     
  28. deanym

    deanym
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2004
    Messages:
    1,789
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +141
    If its possible a proper HiDef feed to each of the HD ready panels, most of us who have HD ready screens can only feed them sd signals (tv and dvd) so it'd be useful to know how good each unit performs once HD hits the UK.

    And (hopefully not repeating anyone), instead of which panel is best full stop, perhaps a conclusion where certain requirements are met:- best plug and play, best with scaler, ease of use, tweakers choice, technophobes choice etc.................
     
  29. rowlandhills

    rowlandhills
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Messages:
    427
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Baldock
    Ratings:
    +18
    Just a thought, but if there's any way that you can set this up somewhere that the public can come to, I'd love to see this (or perhaps view them all for a while at the end of the test).

    In fact, I'd be happy to pay for the privilege, given how difficult it is to find somewhere to demo let alone compare more than one or two plasmas!
     
  30. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,299
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    :smashin: that is one of the ideas, but it probably wont be a very central location.
     

Share This Page

Loading...