Maybe a problem with Z2

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by cliocarl, Jun 7, 2004.

  1. cliocarl

    cliocarl
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    337
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    Hey guys,

    just set up me Z2 watched a few clips from a few films to show my m&d then me sis wanted me to put on Save the Last Dance, so I did, shifted the lens as you can, adjusted the keystone and noticed a sort of green blur slightly thick vertical line on about a quarter of the screen height size.

    It only occured on certain scenes like one minute you could see it the next minute you couldnt.

    Does anyone know what this may be and how I may fix it?

    Thanks, Carl
     
  2. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    Can you reproduce it reliably by playing those scenes? Or does it just appear randomly?

    ad
     
  3. cliocarl

    cliocarl
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    337
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    at work at the moment but will test it again wen i get home with different disc.

    However I think it comes on then off within seconds. On the dark scenes its not there, will full check and take pics tonight.

    Why what you thinking it could be?
     
  4. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    I wasnt thinking so much at what it is, rather what it isnt..... first trick is trying to find what component the problem lies in. Have you tried the same signal (same output/resolution etc) on an alternative display?

    ad
     
  5. cliocarl

    cliocarl
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    337
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    gonna try it all tonight
     
  6. cliocarl

    cliocarl
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    337
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    Check out this picture from a scene on disc one of Band of Brothers, the dotty thing is the side of a warship in the film.

    You cant see it by looking at the thumbnail which is like looking at the screen from 2.5m away, but when you get closer - ie open up the attachment into big JPEG you can see next to it it the problem!

    Anyone no what this may be?
     

    Attached Files:

  7. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    oh yeah.... looks very weird and i cant say I have seen it before. Did you get a chance to try the source elsewhere or another source on the Z2?

    ad
     
  8. DJW

    DJW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    1,062
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
    As the previous owner of the Z2, I was obviously horrified when Carl stated what he had experienced. What I can add to this thread though is the experiences I had with the PJ, to help us shorten the potential list of problems.

    I usually watched the PJ picture at about 8ft across & only 8ft away......I know, breaks the 1.5x rule. From this distance I used to pick up the screen door effect, so would have definitely seen the green band shown in the picture. I mostly used an ARCAM DV89 via component & neevr experienced this problem.

    From this we can deduce it's either a source problem (eg. DVD player) or something has happened to the PJ in transit from when Carl demo'd the PJ at my place to getting it home. Now it was placed in its polysterene packaging & I know Carl would have driven carefully home, so any jolts would have been minor. Carl, it's probably worth mentioning in detail ref keystone change and how it wasn't there before, but was after. Might help others solve the problem.

    Is another option to identify problem to keep changing the background colour of PJ screen, with no DVD playing. Anybody any advice on the colour that would show the green band up ? If it doesn't show, then it points to DVD player as problem. If it does show then it points to the PJ. Would others agree ? I actually did this exercise to verify no dead pixels, on top of normal visuals of films etc.

    I'll contact previous owners to see if they have any opinions.

    Dave
     
  9. cwick

    cwick
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    2,231
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Reading
    Ratings:
    +95
    It's not just a smudge on the lens is it ? Looks a little like it might be a smear of grease from a finger touching the lens.
     
  10. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    I could also point out that the pattern isnt vertical..... not your problem but you might look to adjust how it is sitting.

    ad
     
  11. cliocarl

    cliocarl
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    337
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    Just before I start, buns thanks for your kind responses and to everyone else, obviously I am quite scared about this issue as I have just shelled out most of my savings :confused: The image just looks slanted as thats my camera skills :rolleyes:

    Right,

    Tonight I have used the DVI input from my PC and the problem is still there so it definitely is the projector.

    So when the problem was on screen I paused the source and then adjusted the keystone correction. The problem moved up and down when adjusting the keystone in different directions. Sometimes the problem is hardly noticable when keystone is in a certain place. So basically this problem is hard to spot as when engrossed in the main picture/film, the problem only occurs with some colours, those colours occur in some scenes (like shown in the picture) and when keystoned is less obvious/more obvious - when fully keystoned to a V shape it is one whole line!!!!!!!

    So I am now gutted.
     
  12. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    so can you actually get rid of it with keysone? You make it sound a bit like a processing error

    ad
     
  13. cliocarl

    cliocarl
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    337
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    No you cant get rid of it with keystone, when you adjust the keystone that blur seen above moves up or down depending on keystone direction.

    Sometimes it doubles, one below one above, sometimes it tripples 3 in a row vertically, and then when totally to the 'V' shape picture it is a full line!

    When in a neatly keystone picture it is rarely noticable and difficult to see from a distance. However noticable when sitting half a metre away.
     
  14. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    It probably is worth talking to sanyo themselves now..... the machine must still be under warranty

    ad
     
  15. creative-av

    creative-av
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,093
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +56
    Carl,

    I had a problem with my first Z2 which was a green line appearing in the far left and far right columns. I advised Ivojo and they arranged, with Sanyo, to swap the machine out for a new one. No problems with the second one :)

    I would suggest yourself or Dave(whoever has the recsipt to show proof of purchase) to get back in touch with the supplier and get a new pj shipped out.

    Cheers,

    Steve
     
  16. cliocarl

    cliocarl
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    337
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    Unfortunately Sanyo said when I rang them that warranty is non transferable, as the seller led me to believe.

    So Ive bought a pup! :(

    Lost £775
     
  17. Adrenochrome

    Adrenochrome
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    9,043
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Babel Sensurround
    Ratings:
    +207
    I'm quite sure that if the unit is still under warranty Dave shall sort it out for you.

    Have you been in touch with him regarding the problem?

    Adrenochrome.
     
  18. creative-av

    creative-av
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,093
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +56
    Why are Sanyo saying that the warranty is on the person and not the product? It shouldn't matter who owns the PJ. The product comes with a years warranty, end of story.

    If every manufacturer took this stance no-one would ever buy second hand goods!

    Just my opinion.

    Steve
     
  19. cliocarl

    cliocarl
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    337
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    Yes, he is aware of the problem.

    However Dave was not the original owner. There were two before him.
     
  20. Adrenochrome

    Adrenochrome
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    9,043
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Babel Sensurround
    Ratings:
    +207
    Just done a quick search and ruffrider who sold it to Dave says it has a 3 year warranty but didn't say if this was with sanyo or perhaps the establishment it was purchased from. Maybe worth trying to find out.

    Adrenochrome.
     
  21. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    Well if it came from Ivojo (which there is a reasonable chance) then you are 100% ok because they definitely told me that the warranty was tied to the machine, in fact 2 people told me the same thing so im doubly sure of it. If someone tries to be silly about it, then simply ring back and dont tell them it is second hand. If they want proof of purchase, say you cant find it and see where it gets you. If all that fails..... im sure the original owner would be helpful as to receipt and place of purchase.

    Frankly the thought of non transferable warranties is ridiculous..... I put it to all big electronics companies that if this is how they want to play it, I will get in touch with one of the tv watchdogs and inform them that all your products should be considered as unsuitable for giving to anyone as a gift since as soon as this is done, your rotten warranty is void..... the press would have a field day with that one

    ad
     
  22. cliocarl

    cliocarl
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    337
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    The original owner was 'fred123go' - who ruffrider bought it off he was a guest on the forums but his email addy is:

    [email protected]
     
  23. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    oh boy..... that is Fred's old one is it.... he was a bit of an goat on here when the new trading rules appeared (he is 16 and thus couldnt trade anymore). The email address is that of his mother. I know where fred hides these days so I can do my best to put you in touch with him.

    ad
     
  24. Gavin_Hall

    Gavin_Hall
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2001
    Messages:
    870
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent
    Ratings:
    +170
    Can you confirm what different sources of DVD player you have used for your Z2? I see you have tried from your PC, can you confirm you tried a different source, ie Standalone player, with a different cable? I had a problem with an earlier Sony HS1, it had a tear in the image on certain scenes. I traced the problem down to a dodgy interconnect from my DVD player to an Iscan Pro unit, it took me weeks to find it.

    cheers
     
  25. DJW

    DJW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    1,062
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
    As the seller I have agreed to a full refund, where upon I will attempt to recreate the problem (as I had no probs originally) & then attempt to solve it accordingly.

    Buns, I would appreciate your offer ref contact to Fred please. I assume if it was from IVOJO they would honour the warranty even if I'm the 3rd person ? It would be great if I had the same outcome as steveJR .

    Cheers Dave
     
  26. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    Dave,

    I have sent fred a pm on the forum he frequents. If he doesnt get back to tha, Smurfin I believe knows Dimmy who in turn knows Fred so no worries on that front. The machine was not from Ivojo im afraid, I will pm you further details.

    Ad
     
  27. cliocarl

    cliocarl
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    337
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    Dave, as mentioned above has agreed to a full refund. This I am happy with.

    It has been an unfortunate experience for both Dave and myself.

    Carl
     
  28. creative-av

    creative-av
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,093
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +56
    Dave,

    I have to say that Ivojo were brilliant when it came to swapping the PJ out. Ken had no issues with Sanyo supplying me with a new PJ so I'm sure they would do the same for you.

    Buns - Totally agree with your comments. How any electrical manufacturer thinks they can get away with not honouring a warranty because you are not the original purhaser is beyond me!

    Good luck Dave.

    Steve
     
  29. DJW

    DJW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    1,062
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
    Update on problem. Carl returned the PJ last night & we went about replicating the problem. It took quite a while, but after moving PJ closer to screen we got it (more about this later). Pictures attached below....note the arrow indicates the area to look at to the left of it :-

    [​IMG]

    & now for the close up:-

    [​IMG]

    the error is as follows :-
    - Can only be seen on light greyish scenes
    - Is approx 2% in from left & in bottom 25% height wise
    - Is approx 20 pixels across (from counting up close)
    - bottom 80% of defect is vertical light bands
    - top 20 % is horizontal flashing pixels...a bit like teletext signal at top of TV screen if you have seen before.

    Now comes the interesting point. Later in the evening I decided to run some other tests to help problem determination on this thread. When we 1st ran the tests with the PJ in the position I used it we couldn't see the problem. Carl stated he had it closer to screen, which we did. As the PJ was on a low coffee table I had to put the front legs up to max & then move the lens up as well to get picture above sideboard. Obviously the keystone had to be adjusted. We then saw the problem.

    This got me thinking to test the keystone & this is where things change. If I left the keystone with the bottom in narrower by approx 5-10% then you cannot see the error. As you move the keystone to correct you can see a faint error appear that seems half the height of the screen, that quickly converges to the size on the piccies above (approx 20%) in a more evident manner. As you go past the vertical on keystone & start to expand the top of picture the defect shrinks dramatically until only a small box....although still same width. When the defect is there, you can see it from normal viewing position.

    So this explains why in the position I had the PJ, with very little Keystone correction I did not see the problem. Carl had to try a different setup which rightly showed a problem, which we replicated by moving PJ at my home also.

    Other tests I ran were changing the picture format from wide, to normal to zoom etc, which did not effect the position of the error vs the picture.

    So what do you think guys ? Any ideas as to cause of problem & can it be fixed without the hassle of trying to get warranty job done ?

    Cheers Dave
     
  30. thfccambs

    thfccambs
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    23,968
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    White Hart Lane
    Ratings:
    +6,898
    I thought fred brought his Z2 of some bloke of ebay,i remeber him goimg on about it because he managed to get it before everyone else.
     

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice