Answered Max width over 3m throw

Doug Pyper

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I'm about to build a new AT screen and, before doing so, I need to make some decisions about its size. I wondered if anyone knows whether there are any good options for me that would allow me to go for a scope screen that retains roughly the same height as my current 16:9 screen (114cm).

I'm currently using a Sony VPLHW40ES projecting a 92" 16:9 image with a throw distance around 3m. At max zoom I can get around 100" 16:9. When watching scope content I have black bars. I'd rather have a wider scope screen. As wide as possible up to about 2.8m (which would be roughly 1.2m high - about the same as a 96" 16:9 screen), and have bars on the sides for 16:9 content.

So far as I can see, my options are:

1) stick with the Sony, and settle for a max image width of 2.2m, and build a 100" 16:9 screen;
2) get an anamorphic lens that would stretch the Sony's 16:9 image, and build a 116" scope screen; or
3) find a short-throw PJ, build a 116" scope screen and use the zoom function for scope content.

Option 1 is obviously easy but means I don't get to have a bigger scope screen.

I'm not sure option 2 is possible without spending silly money, as I gather reasonably priced A lenses aren't great at max pj zoom/over short throw.

Option 3 seems the only option that would give me a larger scope screen without spending lots of money. However, my concern with option 3 is that the Sony's a decent pj and I'm not aware of a comparable/better short throw pj.

Am I missing anything? Grateful in advance for any advice.
 
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How about using a first-surface mirror to increase the throw distance to screen of your Sony?

I saw @Gary Lightfoot mention this in another thread as it happens and wondered about it. I'm not sure how it would work. Would I need to have the pj at the front firing backwards towards a mirror? If so, that's not possible...
 
Yes, I think the pj has to be firing against a mirror on the back wall but the pj can be anywhere on the ceiling (like the middle) to get the throw distance right for the image size. It doesn't have to be at the front of the room above the screen for example. I've not tried it myself so if you think it might work, try the search or google.
 
Yes, I think the pj has to be firing against a mirror on the back wall but the pj can be anywhere on the ceiling (like the middle) to get the throw distance right for the image size. It doesn't have to be at the front of the room above the screen for example. I've not tried it myself so if you think it might work, try the search or google.

Thanks for the quick reply. :smashin:

Unfortunately I think that writes it off as an option - there's nowhere I can mount the pj other than along the back wall. So far as I can see that leaves me with the three options mentioned above. My thinking at the moment is either stick with the Sony or try and find an equivalently good (or better) pj that will throw a larger image over the same distance.

Haven't had any luck so far. The Sonys and JVCs all seem to throw the same or smaller images over the distance I have. Not sure about the Epsons - going to check now. The only ones I know about that would do it are the BenQs, but I doubt they'd be as good as the Sony.
 
I think (projector dependent, some don't like odd orientations) it is also possible to have the mirror at 45 degrees and have the projector firing up or across the back wall.

There are commercial solutions where the projector is concealed and the mirror drops down to the requisite angle.

Revelation :: Draper, Inc.
Products
 
I think (projector dependent, some don't like odd orientations) it is also possible to have the mirror at 45 degrees and have the projector firing up or across the back wall.

There are commercial solutions where the projector is concealed and the mirror drops down to the requisite angle.

Revelation :: Draper, Inc.
Products


Interesting - cheers.

Might be possible then. I could in theory fire the pj up along the back wall, adding approximately 2m to the throw distance, which would be sufficient. My concern of course would be that there's a lot of scope for error, but I'll have to do some research...
 
You can do experiments for (almost) free almost using any household mirror. The downside with a household mirror is that you can expect a slight ghost image because the mirrored surface is behind the glass; but it should give you an idea of the kind of positioning options you have.

The mirrors you'd really want to use for this have the mirror surface applied to the top of the glass.
 
You can do experiments for (almost) free almost using any household mirror. The downside with a household mirror is that you can expect a slight ghost image because the mirrored surface is behind the glass; but it should give you an idea of the kind of positioning options you have.

The mirrors you'd really want to use for this have the mirror surface applied to the top of the glass.
I was just wondering about that. Might give it a go now and see what happens...
 
I think once the mirror is in place and correctly oriented you will have to adjust focus on the projector as the focal distance will have changed, but other than that it should be as simple as sticking the mirror in front of the lens and angling it (much easier with something like the Sony which has zoom, as you have a bit more flexibility with your distances).
 
Tried it and my initial impression is that it won't work without quite a large mirror. From what I can tell (although might be mistaken), the more throw distance I want to add the larger the mirror required. If I want to add a metre or so, I'd need to install a mirror equal to or larger than the pj's minimum image size @ 1m. That would require a mirror roughly 50cm plus in width (may be way off with that, but I don't think it's smaller), which is larger than the mirror I could comfortably install there. Caveat on the above is that I only experimented very quickly, so this includes a lot of rough estimation.
 
I think the mirrors are typically that kind of size, hence why they are often hinged etc. You could have one flat to the wall (hidden behind a picture, for example) that came out to the required angle when needed.

May well be a non-starter where domestic harmony is required...
 
May well be a non-starter where domestic harmony is required...

Precisely! I'm allowed a fair bit of flexibility with the room as it's a guest room ... but I'm hesitant to push my luck after so recently acquiring the green light for an AT screen. Blessings, counting, etc.!

Starting to think the whole idea may be a non-starter absent finding a decent pj with a bigger throw, which I'm not sure exists.
 
You could imagine a sneaky solution with the mirror hidden in the back of a picture hanging on the wall and hinged - all a bit James Bond though.

I think some of the high-end DLP units have replaceable lenses available in various throws.

Navitar do external short and long throw conversion lenses, not sure what kind of quality sacrifice they involve.
ScreenStar® Conversion Lenses | Navitar
 
I'm pro being James Bond, not sure Miss Moneypenny would approve though.

Getting the impression I'm fighting a losing battle with this one. I'm quite happy with the width of a 100" 16:9 screen. It'd be nicer to have a wider scope image but not the end of the world. My thinking at the moment is that my best option is to spend some time on ProjectorCentral looking at throw distances and see if any pjs I'd consider could project a larger image than the Sony. So far no luck, but I'll give it a go before writing off the idea.
 
So, spent a while on projectorcentral and it seems the BenQs are the only options. Think I'm going to stick with the Sony. Thanks for all the input - really appreciate it.
 
There was a guy on Youtube that use a lens similar to the Navitar lenses jfinnie mentions, and had a good result from what I can remember, though hard to see from a video. It's just a simple zoom but will increase your image size and will be a lot cheaper than an Anamorphic lens unless you get lucky and get one for around £300 like someone here did recently.

I think the youtube guy picked up cheap lens from ebay - I'm off out, but if you try searching youtube you may find the lens he was using and a good price for one on ebay yourself.

Edit: this is the video, using a Canon hf s21 s20 s200 Wide Angle Lens:



Like I say, hard to tell if it will make the image any worse, reduce the ANSI contrast etc etc but should help increase the size of the image provided the lens doesn't vignette (obscure the image as it passes through).
 
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Heads up @DougAP
I tracked down the UK reseller for the navitar lenses and was able to get loan of the non HD lenses to test it out at no cost. Yes it did increase the image but at the detriment to the image quality. But this was probably due to one I was just testing by holding the lense in front of my ceiling mounted projector as the mount chief mounting kit l purchased of amazon did not fit, these lenses are not easy to mount if your projector is ceiling mounted. And two the lense I used retailed for around 1000 with the HD version nearer 2k. So whilst it did not work for me due to the above they may work if you are able to source one second hand and have your projector mounted on a shelf. The brand is relatively unknown in the U.K. Avworld but the products are high end provided you get the mounted sorted which appears to be Achilles heel for these products. If your interested l could pm you the uk contact for a loan unit for you to try out.
 
Heads up @DougAP
And two the lense I used retailed for around 1000 with the HD version nearer 2k..

That kills it for me I'm afraid ... I'm a bit of a cheapskate at the moment (relatively) when it comes to video!

Completely off topic, but how do you find the AVM 60 / Lexicon combo? I've been offered a GX-7, and wondered how it would sound with the Anthem.
 
Damn that's tempting. Affixing a wide-angle lens looks like a great option for scope content, but I spend about 60/40% of viewing on 16:9/scope, so I'd be forever uninstalling it and reinstalling it. Would be fiddly with all that taping.

I think ultimately the only solution I'm going to find is: get a bigger room!
 
If you can make up a holder on a drawer slider, that would make it easy to move in and out of the light path.
 
So it wouldn't need to make physical contact? I suppose that makes sense.

I've got my pj on a shelf so I could knock something up. Worth a shot I suppose - it's only £80, and if it doesn't work I could just sell it on [emoji2]
 

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