Mattrick's gone (yay!) BUT...Ballmer's in charge (uh oh)...

zt1903

Distinguished Member
Why don't they just send out a rollback to previous firmware, why even update it at all if it works fine.

Sounds like they now understand the issue, and can resolve/work round it.

An interesting observation is that in a connected world one sometimes relies on multiple parties providing data and/or services to work together. If one of them changes something it can cause unexpected problems elsewhere and leave you pointing the finger at (potentially) the wrong party.

Sony also acknowledged the fault on its official support forums, seemingly blaming Freeview owner and provider Arqiva for the problem, while offering workarounds for affected users.

A member of the support team wrote: "It appears something has changed in the way that these devices are receiving EPG data from Arqiva, the people who own and operate the Freeview standard for the UK.

"So we are already trying to understand what has happened and how this can be rectified, realising that a large number of people have been affected."

In an update on Sunday morning, Sony also claimed the problem has been
resolved for some users.

"Many users are reporting that the issue has been resolved and their devices are now able to correctly re-tune and received correct EPG date. Please post back if you are still experiencing problems," the company wrote.
 

STANNY08

Well-known Member
So they are blaming Arqiva for changing the way they broadcast their Freeview EPG data, yet only these Sony devices were affected. Every other companies devices doped with the change properly, but Sonys didnt. Still Sonys fault if you ask me.
 

zt1903

Distinguished Member
So they are blaming Arqiva for changing the way they broadcast their Freeview EPG data, yet only these Sony devices were affected. Every other companies devices doped with the change properly, but Sonys didnt. Still Sonys fault if you ask me.

The trigger wasn't a change by Arqiva but the firmware update for one Sony device, therefore not surprising that the issue was restricted to one Sony device. One assumes, from Sony's statement, that Arqiva changed something without telling them and it was discovered by the firmware update. I imagine that other manufacturers are now scrambling to make sure that they have the information required to ensure that they don't encounter similar issues when they do their firmware updates.

Incidentally, some Pioneer devices have previously had a similar problem.

And, to be fair to Sony, the issue arose on Saturday and they'd fixed it by Sunday.
 

Stinja

Distinguished Member
One assumes, from Sony's statement, that Arqiva changed something without telling them and it was discovered by the firmware update.

Microsoft do this too. I've lost track of the number of times MS have issued an Outlook security patch, it's change something in the object model which you used to access, and now it's broken the client code.
Let alone their other applications and OS... and of course you only know after users complain, that flows back to you, and you have to dig thru MSDN into some obscure KB article to see what's happened.

Still, you'd think Sony would do a bit more testing, poor on them too :lesson:
 
Clutching at straws a bit are we not?

?? Not at all. Things happen. I was simply stating can you imagine the furore if that was anything ms related in the current climate, it would have been big news. For what it's worth for me it's a total non story but was simply pointing out how things are currently.
 

HaRd2BeAr

Distinguished Member
?? Not at all. Things happen. I was simply stating can you imagine the furore if that was anything ms related in the current climate, it would have been big news. For what it's worth for me it's a total non story but was simply pointing out how things are currently.

But that's simply because Microsoft seem intent this Gen on making mistakes. Sony have been clever and avoided the heat. Whether they will make any mistakes down the road however....

As it happens for some reason I am fancying the idea of an Xbox One at the moment and I'm not sure why :eek:
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
But that's simply because Microsoft seem intent this Gen on making mistakes. Sony have been clever and avoided the heat. Whether they will make any mistakes down the road however....

As it happens for some reason I am fancying the idea of an Xbox One at the moment and I'm not sure why :eek:

Is it just me or is MS doing what Sony did with the PS3, Sony got a bit cocky with the PS3 and they learned from that lesson but MS seem to be repeating what they did and are shocked at the response they are getting.
 

HaRd2BeAr

Distinguished Member
Is it just me or is MS doing what Sony did with the PS3, Sony got a bit cocky with the PS3 and they learned from that lesson but MS seem to be repeating what they did and are shocked at the response they are getting.

That's how it feels at the moment. I guess we can only hope they turn it into the success Sony have as I have thoroughly enjoyed my 360.
 
Is it just me or is MS doing what Sony did with the PS3, Sony got a bit cocky with the PS3 and they learned from that lesson but MS seem to be repeating what they did and are shocked at the response they are getting.

I don't buy the accusation that either MS or Sony became cocky. Companies set out a vision and sometimes consumers buy into it and sometimes they don't. MS made a big error this time around by not having all the answers at hand immediately regarding their push for DRM and Digital. They have tried something new, well not new, but new for console gamers and they were unable to allay the fears people will inevitably have when such radical changes are suggested. This in my opinion was their major mistake.
As for them being shocked , I agree and I sympathise with them to an extent. The way people seem to have forgotten the excellent 360 experience MS have produced this gen must have shocked them I'm sure they didn't envisage such a response. However it does seem they are taking stock and I fully expect them to come with a much clearer vision and direction at Gamescom which should go some way to rectify some of the post E3 damage.
 

zt1903

Distinguished Member
I don't buy the accusation that either MS or Sony became cocky. Companies set out a vision and sometimes consumers buy into it and sometimes they don't. MS made a big error this time around by not having all the answers at hand immediately regarding their push for DRM and Digital. They have tried something new, well not new, but new for console gamers and they were unable to allay the fears people will inevitably have when such radical changes are suggested. This in my opinion was their major mistake.
As for them being shocked , I agree and I sympathise with them to an extent. The way people seem to have forgotten the excellent 360 experience MS have produced this gen must have shocked them I'm sure they didn't envisage such a response. However it does seem they are taking stock and I fully expect them to come with a much clearer vision and direction at Gamescom which should go some way to rectify some of the post E3 damage.

I agree with that.

It's not necesarilly corporate arrogance to have a strategy that doesn't work. It's all to easy for executives to buy the slickly produced corporate powerpoint presentations and, once the boss likes it, to be infected by corporate groupthink e.g. one could easy make the cable tv pass through, xbox epg guide sound like excellent functionality in the boardroom - only to have the market go "why would I want to do that :rolleyes:".

Sony had a vision with the PS3, some of which was about being a console and some of which was about winning the HD format war. They also had execution problems with an over-ambitious, complicated architecture making the machine difficult to develop for, production problems delaying launch, and a lack of games in the launch window.

Sony were the market leader and although they had a vision it was flawed and it hit them hard and took them years to recover.

This generation, Sony's vision is far more focussed (unsurprising given current gen issues) and therefore has played well with developers and consumers alike, so far.

Microsoft, on the other hand, also have a vision, some of which is about being a console and some of which is about "owning the living room". The later appears to have fallen fairly flat.

I also think their strategy has been impacted by wider corporate elements - another vehicle for Win 8 - and, perhaps, a bit of greed. For some bizarre reason MS appear to have thought that people wouldn't see through what they were seeking to do on DRM, etc. - or at least predict that people would think that way and ask tough questions for which they should have decent answers.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
The way people seem to have forgotten the excellent 360 experience MS have produced this gen must have shocked them I'm sure they didn't envisage such a response. However it does seem they are taking stock and I fully expect them to come with a much clearer vision and direction at Gamescom which should go some way to rectify some of the post E3 damage.

Xbox 360 has turned into an offline machine for me, no point in having it connected as the only thing online I do is Call of Duty and thanks to no dedicated servers even that is ruined. Not to mention the years it took to sort out the issues with the launch console. My personal experience has not been "Excellent".

This cloud dedicated server thing better cover every single online game and not just their own because we have learned the developers / publishers are not going to do jack.
 
Xbox 360 has turned into an offline machine for me, no point in having it connected as the only thing online I do is Call of Duty and thanks to no dedicated servers even that is ruined. Not to mention the years it took to sort out the issues with the launch console. My personal experience has not been "Excellent".

This cloud dedicated server thing better cover every single online game and not just their own because we have learned the developers / publishers are not going to do jack.

You I would say are in a minority then, No disputing the reliability issues which plagued the early consoles but the 360 has been an excellent gaming machine and that is something I believe is widely accepted. We are fortunate to have had 2 top notch gaming brands for the last decade and in all honesty I can't see Sony or MS falling off now.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
You I would say are in a minority then, No disputing the reliability issues which plagued the early consoles but the 360 has been an excellent gaming machine and that is something I believe is widely accepted. We are fortunate to have had 2 top notch gaming brands for the last decade and in all honesty I can't see Sony or MS falling off now.

I find myself hoping that Sony do a lot better than Microsoft just for the fact that if Sony don't do well they may not be able to make another console which would mean lack of competition for Microsoft so they can do whatever they want and there is nothing anyone will be able to do.

I know there is Nintendo but imo not on the same level as the other 2. Others may disagree but I have not been following Nintendo much after they stopped with the proper consoles. Wii doesn't appeal to me that much.
 

paul1979

Distinguished Member
Nintendo are off the pace and people seem to want to hate them. I wish they would jut a power console with their exclusives!
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
Sony are a massive company they will be fine.

Indeed they are but can their gaming section take much more, did they not shut some things down to put into the gaming section.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
Nintendo are off the pace and people seem to want to hate them. I wish they would jut a power console with their exclusives!

I don't I like Nintendo, I have had a great childhood with their machines. I just wasn't a big fan of the Wii.

Cannot even begin to tell you the amount of hours I sunk into Duck Hunt.

Go duck hunting nowadays you can get done for murder :D
 

zt1903

Distinguished Member
Indeed they are but can their gaming section take much more, did they not shut some things down to put into the gaming section.

On the first question, yes. SCE has been one of the more profitbale divisions. If Sony Corporation ever got into serious problems the gaming division could easily be sold.

On the second question, no. Sony had been running losses for a number of years (TVs being their biggest problem, particularly the transition from dominating a CRT world to a very competitive LCD one, and winning the Blu-Ray battle was also very expensive) as well as the Corporation just being too top-heavy. They needed to restructure and they have.

Gaming was never a big problem for them (other than first year or so of the PS3) and it would not be fair to say that they restructured to support gaming.
 

alphaomega16

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the info zt :)
 

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