Marvel Phase 4: Do we still care? - AVF Movies Podcast discussion thread

Tom Davies

Editorial Contributor

Hello, chums and chumps, and welcome to this month's AVF Movies Podcast discussion thread.​


The next Movies Podcast hosted by me, @Casimir Harlow and @Simon Crust will be livestreaming on our YouTube channel on Wednesday 14th July 2021 at 8:00pm.

As usual, we're asking for your delectable opinions on our topic of the month, which so happens to be Marvel Phase 4.

With the release of Black Widow in cinemas and on Disney+, we're going to be discussing the future of Marvel on the big and small screen, whether any of us have any enthusiasm left for the comic book behemoth, and how Marvel can learn from their best and worst decisions of the past decade-and-change. But we'd like to know what you hulks and she-hulks think about it. The most interesting responses will be discussed on the podcast!

So, with that in mind:

  • Have any of the TV entries piqued your interest? Do any of the forthcoming cinema releases? (i.e.) Black Widow, Shang-Chi, The Eternals, Dr Strange's Mad House of Multiverses, Nu-Spider-Man 3... ET CETERA.

  • What are your thoughts on Marvel's penchant for hiring indie directors straight of their breakout successes and making them do CGI action?

  • Do you carry any excitement about the continued existence of the MCU and its box office dominance or are you OVER IT?

  • What's the deal with Black Widow? Is it good? Is it cinema good? Just how 'too late' is it?

Answer these questions or I'll send David Harbour over to act at you.
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member

Hello, chums and chumps, and welcome to this month's AVF Movies Podcast discussion thread.​


The next Movies Podcast hosted by me, @Casimir Harlow and @Simon Crust will be livestreaming on our YouTube channel on Wednesday 14th July 2021 at 8:00pm.

As usual, we're asking for your delectable opinions on our topic of the month, which so happens to be Marvel Phase 4.

With the release of Black Widow in cinemas and on Disney+, we're going to be discussing the future of Marvel on the big and small screen, whether any of us have any enthusiasm left for the comic book behemoth, and how Marvel can learn from their best and worst decisions of the past decade-and-change. But we'd like to know what you hulks and she-hulks think about it. The most interesting responses will be discussed on the podcast!

So, with that in mind:

  • Have any of the TV entries piqued your interest? Do any of the forthcoming cinema releases? (i.e.) Black Widow, Shang-Chi, The Eternals, Dr Strange's Mad House of Multiverses, Nu-Spider-Man 3... ET CETERA.

  • What are your thoughts on Marvel's penchant for hiring indie directors straight of their breakout successes and making them to CGI action?

  • Do you carry any excitement about the continued existence of the MCU and its box office dominance or are you OVER IT?

  • What's the deal with Black Widow? Is it good? Is it cinema good? Just how 'too late' is it?

Answer these questions or I'll send David Harbour over to act at you.

Great question. I mentioned recently that my love affair with the MCU/MTVU is on the wane (possibly because I cheated on it recently with Zack Snyder's Justice League- the harlot).

  • Wandavision was wandafull (although I thought it stumbled a bit at the finish line). I'm less impressed with Loki and FATWS. I watch them each week, but without much sense of anticipation, and am left without any desire to revisit them. Cinematically, only Dr Strange Multiverse is really piquing my interest due to its character crossover potential. But I'll watch them all naturally.
  • I think it's great for several reasons; little known breakout talent gets mainstream recognition, as well as putting an authentic, creative stamp on an otherwise corporate product.
  • Starting to be over it, if I'm honest. I don't want it to end as it still brings joy to so many, but I reached peak Marvelitis with the Infinity saga. Also the entire genre feels played out. I'm open to having my enthusiasm reawakened though.
  • I'll let you know!
 

Drax1

Distinguished Member
Despite having enjoyed the hell out of phases 1-3 , it'll admit to making the MCU a little less of a priority than I once did. Loved Wandavision, but Falcon/Winter Soldier and Loki aren't doing that much for me. I'll certainly catch Shangi-Chi and Eternals, but they hardly rate as must see projects so far. I've surprised myself by not being fussed over Black Widow, which I'll see one way or another, but might even do the previously unthinkable and wait until it's free on Disney+ in October.
Maybe it's just overkill with the mass of projects on the go with Disney+ and the cinema releases. Knowing the shear volume of upcoming content - She-Hulk, Armour Wars, Hawkeye, Ironheart, Guardians 3, Wakanda Forever, etc, it feels a little exhausting! I'll still be catching Spidey 3, and the (great sounding) Doc Strange sequel on opening weekends though. I'd love to see my anticipation get to Infinity War/Endgame levels, but can't see that happening for a fair whi!e again. We'll see...
 
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Skull n Bones

Well-known Member
Have a fleeting interest in some of the upcoming films like Dr Strange Multiverse and Guardians 3 but no interest in any of the TV shows at all. Superhero fatigue set in a long time ago.
 

Drax1

Distinguished Member
Maybe my passion for phases 1-3 were just that - a phase. It definitely feels like it's peaked for with Endgame (one of my all time great cinema trips) Not wanting to muddy the waters, but I can't see that happening with my love for all things Star Wars. Not unless Lucasfilm try and shovel masses of new content at us in the short term. Hang on a moment...:D
 
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Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
I didn't enjoy WandaVision or Falcon and TWS much. I haven't seen Loki yet.

I think it will be hard for them to hit the peaks they did with Infinity Wars and Endgame, after all, it was 10 years in the making.
I'm keen to see where they go next as they have built an incredible world, I'm probably looking forward to more of the same characters than some of the new stuff.

I loved Blade, both as a comic when I was young and the original movie, with diminishing returns for the sequels (although we did get to see Deadpool with Blade, Ryan Reynolds playing the part of Ryan Reynolds to less success than he does in his own franchise) so I am looking forward to where they go with that.
 

Drax1

Distinguished Member
I didn't enjoy WandaVision or Falcon and TWS much. I haven't seen Loki yet.

I think it will be hard for them to hit the peaks they did with Infinity Wars and Endgame, after all, it was 10 years in the making.
I'm keen to see where they go next as they have built an incredible world, I'm probably looking forward to more of the same characters than some of the new stuff.

I loved Blade, both as a comic when I was young and the original movie, with diminishing returns for the sequels (although we did get to see Deadpool with Blade, Ryan Reynolds playing the part of Ryan Reynolds to less success than he does in his own franchise) so I am looking forward to where they go with that.
Yes, Blade could be interesting, depending on the tone Marvel go for. It feels way too far off to get excited about. Work on it seems to be going at a snail's pace considering how long ago the lead was announced.
 
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richp007

Distinguished Member
I'm mega hyped for new Spiderman. I think it could be absolutely tremendous if they pull off what it looks like they're planning. Forget the film for now, I'm just excited anticipating the trailer!!

Dr. Strange as well could be very interesting.

My main concern for the new phase has always been how do you top perfection. Because that's pretty much what we got. The big hitters like Chris Evans and RDJ have left now too, and of course the passing of Chadwick Boseman was a massive loss as well.

Black Widow I'll hopefully see before the podcast, although I'm a little disappointed with some of the lukewarm reception. I said yesterday I think they've done it a few years too late. And that's probably been one of their biggest missteps.

TV wise I'm looking forward to some kung-fu Marvel with Shang Chi. Not seen Loki or even Falcon and Soldier yet, but I'm wondering if they've hit the peak already with Wandavision, because that was absolutely immense. It'll take some going to best that - and there was the lovely Agatha :love:

Hawkeye could be interesting, a mirror version of DC's Green Arrow but hopefully executed a lot better.

And agree with Lucas on the directors. Couldn't have described it any better than he put it with the creative stamp/corporate product sentiment.
 
Not unlike the previous phases there are films and shows that I’m more excited about than others. On the whole I love it though. People need to remember, as the films built up to the culmination to the infinity saga, it did get more immediate and exciting, you won’t particularly get that at the beginning of a new phase necessarily.
I enjoyed Wandavision, Loki (so far) and was very entertained by Black Widow. Was unimpressed with F&WS, ironically the show I was looking forward to the most.
 

gavinhanly

Distinguished Member
I'm looking forward to Black Widow primarily because it's a Marvel movie in the cinema again. Fancy seeing Shang Chi and am hoping Eternals ends up being one of their surprise success.

After that - we're back to a little more business as usual with Spiderman, Strange, Ant-Man, Wakanda and The Marvels. If all this is leading into FF (which I'm guessing it will) and heralds (pun intended) the coming of Galactus, then I think the excitement will continue to grow. It's the building of the big bad that will pull us all back in.

And if they sow of seeds for X-Men at the same time, even better.

For Marvel and Star Wars, the big question is whether the TV Shows mean there's less appetite for the movies due to saturation or if they act as a gateway drug for the big events. Still TBD on that one for me.

Regardless, it'll be impossible to judge any of these in box office terms until next year at the very earliest due to restrictions, attitudes to cinemagoing and whatnot.
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
I'm looking forward to Black Widow primarily because it's a Marvel movie in the cinema again. Fancy seeing Shang Chi and am hoping Eternals ends up being one of their surprise success.

After that - we're back to a little more business as usual with Spiderman, Strange, Ant-Man, Wakanda and The Marvels. If all this is leading into FF (which I'm guessing it will) and heralds (pun intended) the coming of Galactus, then I think the excitement will continue to grow. It's the building of the big bad that will pull us all back in.

And if they sow of seeds for X-Men at the same time, even better.

For Marvel and Star Wars, the big question is whether the TV Shows mean there's less appetite for the movies due to saturation or if they act as a gateway drug for the big events. Still TBD on that one for me.

Regardless, it'll be impossible to judge any of these in box office terms until next year at the very earliest due to restrictions, attitudes to cinemagoing and whatnot.

That's a good point re: Fantastic Four. I think the introduction of such an iconic supergroup to the pre-existing MCU is very exciting, not to mention a tantalising opportunity to finally get them right. Yep I think that might be the point where my Infinity War-level enthusiasm might re ignite.
 

gavinhanly

Distinguished Member
That's a good point re: Fantastic Four. I think the introduction of such an iconic supergroup to the pre-existing MCU is very exciting, not to mention a tantalising opportunity to finally get them right.
God, I hope so. But if Feige can't do it, then it's time to throw in the towel.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Yeah I said this last April -

"I'd like Galactus to be the next big bad in the MCU. With regards to the Fantastic Four, it's defo last chance saloon. The first two were barely acceptable, the last one totally unacceptable, and if they cock up the next one they just need to consign them to history."

Do it right though and it could be tremendous.

We were also talking about John K and Emily B being Reed and Sue. Perfect for me.

Get it done Kev!!
 

Belzok

Well-known Member
I hit peak comic a year or so ago I think, both Marvel and DC.

The stuff that I will still watch are the likes of The Boys or Jupiter's Legacy and maybe Deadpool.

More adult stuff pretty much, although I wasn't a fan of Wandavision but the style was a big miss for me rather than the premise perhaps.
 

Greg Hook

Moderator & Reviewer
Why would we not care? The MCU went out with a bang at the end of Endgame with a nice epilogue in Far From Home. Wandavision and Loki have been superb and have helped with the long hiatus of the big screen films. The three remaining films have got me very excited.
I think the previous post to yours was referring to the post before that one.
 

Tom Davies

Editorial Contributor
Sorry my response was more of a federal one then a response to anyone particular poster. I had just seen a few people post that didn't care or enthusiasm was waning.
Yeah, you don't have to look very far to see mentions of people being done with the MCU.
I admit, if their original release schedule had panned out and we'd got Black Widow followed by Falcon and the Winter Soldier I would seriously be questioning whether I was going to watch any more.

Both are fine, but it's in the weird stuff outside the usual formula where my interest lies now.

And this is me, a guy with more boxes of comics than will realistically fit in his house.
 

zantarous

Distinguished Member
And this is me, a guy with more boxes of comics than will realistically fit in his house.
I suspect the folks that amassed a large collection in the 80s, 90s and 2000s are no longer the majority going to see comic book movies and when they do go are going so they can then moan about how awful they are, or they are not like the comics, or they are pushing forced diversity to attract people who were never comic book fans (I realise this is an awful generalisation I too used to collect in the 90s but my collection is tiny).

Most going to see these films probably have never bought a comic book or read one, heck at this stage I bet most have never even seen one in real life. They even now have mothers and daughters going to see films like Black Widow or Captain Marvel. These films have broken into the mainstream, I can tell you now, there were no comic book collectors in my screen yesterday, mostly teenage girls, who cheered, gasped and almost all stayed until the end credits. And most surprising of all to me, they actually understood the post credit sequence.
 

lee667

Distinguished Member
I think covid has definitely contributed to people not getting the phase 4 vibe, especially with there not being any new stuff last year. My wife and I have really enjoyed Wandavision and Loki, less so F&WS but it wasn't too bad.

Saw Black Widow and really enjoyed it and I have to say I think i'm looking forward to Shang Chi more than eternals. I get the feeling Eternals could be a bit of a slow burner and may need a 2nd film to really kick things off with them.

With regards to the usual suspects, I'm totally hyped for Spiderman, Dr Strange and Thor. I think all 3 have the potential to be very special indeed, hell I'm starting to get excited about Ant-Man due to Loki.

I have to say that I'm liking the fact that Marvel are using the tv shows to be a bit more experimental, and they are a good way of dropping bits in that could be, or are, relevant to phase 4 and future phases.

With regards to Black Panther, I think it will be very interesting to see what direction they go after the loss of Chadwick Bosman.
 

Mark_a

Well-known Member
Marvel are still head and shoulders above everyone else in Hollywood when it comes to producing rock solid entertainment. Long may it continue.
 

DarkEntity

Well-known Member
With Cap, Iron Man, Blackwidow, Hawkeye & possibly Thor gone i'm not that fussed about the next lot. I cant bear the cardboard acting of Brie and was really hoping she got binned but alas it seems not :(

Maybe some of the new characters will shine and hopefully the reboot of Blade wont be all the current fad of woke/pc crap and they stick with the tone that made the two original Snipes Blade movies so epic. (i'm ignoring the third outing which was dreadful by comparison)
 

raymondo77

Member
  • Loved WandaVision, was onboard from the start and loved it right up until it got all MCU in the final episode. I can't remember much about the Falcon and Winter Soldier other than getting some solid sleep. Loki has been a mixed bag, but overall pretty enjoyable. We're definitely seeing the budget contraints with this one though.

    The films all look good, will likely see them in the cinema.

  • I'm definitely up for more indie directors, but would like to see Marvel give them more freedom, and maybe have the courage to take more chances like not having the big crashy, bangy, CGI third act where everything they took the time to set up and explore was thrown away over the side of the sky castle, shortly before it falls to the ground in a shower of video game cut-scenes.

  • I still care, to the extent I have ever cared about a film franchise. I have only ever viewed Endgame as another Mavel movie. An important one, sure, but not the end of all things that some of the posts on this forum seem to indicate.

  • I had a great time with Black Widow. Didn't care for the last 10 minutes and Ray Winstone was easily the worst thing about the film but otherwise I had a lot of fun. I laughed, I got a bit choked up at some of the family scenes, and winced a lot during the fight scenes - which are maybe the best I've seen yet in the MCU.
 

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