Marquee Fan Modifications

Mad Mr H

Novice Member
Steves Marquee Fan Mods (Steve feel free to copy & paste under your own name - I dont want to make a habit of Quee mod posting [;)] !)

Original words from HK-Steve aka Swiss Steve

My Marquee 9500 has,
2x 120mm fans on the LVPS,
Plus 4x 120mm fans in the belly.
All are mounted on foam gaskets for mechanical isolation.
There is also sound insulation mounted in specific places to reduce air noise.
The original LVPS fans have 33.5cfm each, total of 67cfm,
My 2x 120mm fans have 43cfm each, total of 86cfm.
The original belly fans have 72cfm each, total of 216cfm,
My 2x 120mm fans have 58 cfm each, total of 232cfm.
Both an increase in air flow, but a reduction of noise to the point of just hearing the projector running.
I will be getting my sound level meter out tomorrow, so can feedback the noise level, I measured 29dB before this round of modifications.

I use the silenX fans, the original series, not the newer series.
I have tested the cfm output of both series, and they are pretty much spot on for the specs of cfm.
However the noise level of the newer series is not correct spec, they are higher noise level than what the spec says.
I have 4 fans in the belly not 2, they are lower cfm and lower noise, but having 4 makes up for the lower cfm.
The 29dB measurement was made while sitting under the projector, about 0.5m
When I put the meter along the exhaust side of the LVPS I got around 38dB
The LVPS does have some sound insulation inside to reduce noise,
I have cut out some of the square grill on the outlet side of the LVPS chassis. This is something that I believe does reduce the air noise.
Here are some images for you all,
LVPS installed into my stripped down chassis-
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These fans are NOT the SilenX, these were my first test fans
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Sound Insulation installed
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Some of the exhaust outlet removed, all the edges have been cleaned up, not left like this photo
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The SilenX fans I am using
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The Belly Fan Tray Original and Modofied for 4x fans
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4x 120mm SilenX fans installed, also 3x SilenX louder new generation fans
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STEVE is currently working on the following level tests.
I will put in a OEM LVPS, with 92mm NMB fans
Then put in a set of 92mm Papst fans,
Then a set of 92mm SilenX fans,
Then I will move onto a set of 120mm NMB fans
Then a set of 120mm Papst fans
Then Finally a set of 120mm SilenX fnas.
I will record all the noise levels in Standby and Projector ON.
Hope this helps you guys.
 

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Alaric

Well-known Member
Hi There,

From reading on Curts site, one of the Mods, Kal tried some slientX fans in his Barco clone (its a LC BG808s, by another name which slips my feeble brain)...anyway the specs were higher, the noise lower and the measured temperatures were apawling....The problem with the fans seemed to be something to do with the air flow and the lack of preasure....Its quite a detailed article....He went back to the NMB ones.

So i'd double check and measure tempertaures in multiple spots.

cya,
Lee
 

Roland @ B4

Active Member
Reminds me of the first set of fans I replaced on an 8000. I hadn't noticed they were 24v. for a very short time it was much noisier which was not the effect I was expecting.

Those power supplies can get hot. I would like to see something more than gaffer (duck) tap holding the foam in place.

Isolating the fan from the power box is a great idea. There is not much room but it would be good to cushion the box from the main chassis too.

Just rebuilding a 9500LC so this comes at a good time for me as I don't egt to play with a lot of Ehome's
 

Mad Mr H

Novice Member
Reminds me of the first set of fans I replaced on an 8000. I hadn't noticed they were 24v. for a very short time it was much noisier which was not the effect I was expecting.

As I understand the 4 fan set are in series / parallel for that very reason.

Any questions about this I will ask Steve to pop in and answer.
 

Alaric

Well-known Member
Hi There,

Mad...You win the spot prize...of being correct, again :clap:

This is the thread,

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3606&highlight=silentx

Before/after temps at various heat sink locations in my Zenith 1200:

H-Shift/Focus board (middle): 46.0C (original fans) -> 54.5C (SilenX fans)
H-Shift/Focus board (bottom): 46.2C (original fans) -> 53.3C (SilenX fans)
Horiz board (on top): 28.0C (original fans) -> 42.5C (SilenX fans)
Vertical board (on top): 39.6C (original fans) -> 50.2C (SilenX fans)
SMPS (underneath): 36.8C (original fans) -> 41.1C (SilenX fans)


I replaced the fans as follows:

Angled 80CFM NMB original fan -> 72CFM SilenX fan (this one only cools the H-Shift/Focus board)
2 other 80CFM NMB original fans -> 90 CFM SilenX fans (these cool everything else)
I did not touch the front fan.

Some of these temp jumps are huge! For example, the horiz board which is basically exclusively cooled by one of the 80CFM NMB or 90CFM SilenX fans jumps 14.5C even though the new fan is 'supposed' to be 10CFM larger!

Same with the SMPS. The "Larger" 90CFM SilenX fan cools worse than the 80CFM NMB fan.

The NMB fans are staying in place. Anyone want to buy $120CAD worth of SilenX fans?


The problem apears to be static preasure and overly optimistic ratings

Near the end he references this AVS post, where another member has experimented with a Sony G70

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9740646&&#post9740646

Notice that SilenX does not publish the static pressure specification of its fans. So even if the maximum airflow is the same for it and the OEM fan (outside the case), for a given restriction (installed in the case) the OEM fan could easily have a significantly higher airflow than the SilenX fan. The fact that the OEM fan requires 7 watts of power compared to less than 3 watts for the SilenX fan makes me very suspect of SilenX airflow capacity when it is installed in the G70 case.

So I'm afraid that until someone is able to verify that the cooling capacity of the SilenX fans is adequate to keep the projector from overheating, I'm going to have to live with the noise. Now that I have the OEM fans back in, it seems louder than ever, but I'll get used to again.

To me, that looks fairly damning....I'd prefere to be proved wrong as i'd love to quieten my PJ....but i'm not sure the SilentX aproach is the best...Basicaly i'd advise to measure in situ and don't belive specs.

Lies, Damn Lies and Specifications ?

cya,
Lee
 

Mad Mr H

Novice Member
I do have to say that fan mods always seem to be the easy swop over mod and so many people try this.

Sadly the LONG TERM damage caused by many of these mods takes time to show up.

I have numerous bits of test kit and so when I have tried fan mods I can measure air flow & temp in around 3 positions at the same time.

ONE of my 1209s machines arrived with the tube fan reversed AND ALL NMB fans down rated from the 30 version to 10 - this cooked almost every single board in the PJ, that PJ has now had massive amounts of work done to it and is now very stable.

Steve is one of a group of electronics engineers who do modifications to CRTs. So although this might be the first time some of you have heard about Steve and his 9500, many from the "Evil Twin" will know him well.

Fans mods WILL be on my to do list very soon...........The 1209s pair are on the ceiling and currently the running one is noisey in comparrison to my older PJ, it also appears to run much hotter as well - of course im currently running close to 4:3 ratio on the tubes so generating more heat than usual.


The general ideas for fan mods take the PJ one stage further than the manufacturers could ever have done.

Feel free to help and add pictures of the following that I dont have time for at the mo.........

We have a member (Jones the Gas) with Barco 919 will a full on "air extraction" system fitted - The other option to this is to turn a 909 / 919 back into a cine9 fan system (The 909 / 919 are "fans on FULL")

4ggltli.jpg

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An 801s with a snorkel type fan duct into a roof space owned by another member (Boy Lex)

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Steves 9500 as above.

(Others please chime in)

Sadly not all are success stories - I recent 808 required a new power supply following a "No fan" test :eek: , and the 1209s mentioned above with lower spec fans also suffered - As luck would have it both these machines are well again.

I was asked to design and build a fan mod for a 1209s unit, I still have plans to do this and have added some new tools to help me. My idea is to create a new rear cover to the 120x series chassis that will allow a single extract fan to be in a remote position, the idea is to remove the 3 internal fans. ALSO the conv. tray fan on the 120x series chassis is more suited to desktop mounting of the PJ. When ceiling mounted the fans works against itself to cool the tray - trying to draw hot air downward. Reversing this fan creates a trap of hot air in the tray - My ideas here are to use small fans across the front of the conv tray to expell the hot air and maybe remove the original fan - that will also reduce fan noise as the original fan points directly down when ceiling mounted and is usually close to the seating position.

Those are my conceptual ideas so far.
 

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Roland @ B4

Active Member
The quest for the silent projector goes on (and off)

Couple of points from Mads post.
The 909/919 are not full on, they still adapt to temperature rise but they are louder than a Cine 9. If you look at the centre fan for instance it will not spin up untill the core of the projector reaches a preset temperature this is comon on all the 9** series.
I did the 919 silencing for jones the gas and whilst it is successful and has been running for well over a year he was fortuneate that the roof void allowed all the ducting above. (you can't just pull the fans by the way the projector measures if they are turning.)
I've tried a couple of 1209 fan mods and never found a fan better than the standard barco units.
Word to the wise, the reason barco put fans only in certian places is cool hot spots. Notably in the back the SM power supply and the focus board. So one central fan via a duct may sound good but you will have to put quite a lot of baffels in place to get the flow right.
The converg/astig board needs that fan to cool the hot area. Turning the fan to blow up does work but the temperature sensor is close to the fan and you will blow cool air over it so the board may over heat. To get sufficient air movement over conv/astig will need some doing from the front.
Any one with a ceiling mounted 12** series should remove the wired remote. It covers half the fan. A lot of the plastic casing at the rear does too and if you feel brave then hack this away.
 

Mad Mr H

Novice Member
The 909/919 are not full on, they still adapt to temperature rise but they are louder than a Cine 9. If you look at the centre fan for instance it will not spin up untill the core of the projector reaches a preset temperature this is comon on all the 9** series.

Thanks for that info, though I have worked and modified a number of 120x series the 9** series are new to me - SO I recently bought a few of them to learn more about them :D .

Roland said:
The reason barco put fans only in certian places is cool hot spots. Notably in the back the SM power supply and the focus board. So one central fan via a duct may sound good but you will have to put quite a lot of baffels in place to get the flow right.

I have already done some tests on this.......The "Focus" board is one that I got a fair way on........I have a focus board that runs "cool" if you consider the normal one to run "fairly hot" - For those that prefer a more scientific result the range I was using ther was "Cool, warm, fairly hot, hot" :rolleyes: . I dont currently have temp running settings but Will try and get some done if people want to know - I am chatting with Greg about this and why what I have done has this effect, Its good news but I would like to understand why it worked and if there are any possible side effects.

SMPS can also be modified to run cooler (I have NOT PROVED this yet)

Roland said:
The converg/astig board needs that fan to cool the hot area. Turning the fan to blow up does work but the temperature sensor is close to the fan and you will blow cool air over it so the board may over heat. To get sufficient air movement over conv/astig will need some doing from the front.

I should actually dig out the fan control circuit again - I had not considered this but that means there are a minimum of two temp sensors and that the conv tray fan is under seperate speed control (maybe), So the sensor should be moved to the air exhaust point if that fan is reversed.

I had not given this any thought and just dismissed the fan reversal as a 1209s that was installed with fan reversed had a cooked conv tray, and many other boards that I looked at.

Roland said:
Any one with a ceiling mounted 12** series should remove the wired remote. It covers half the fan. A lot of the plastic casing at the rear does too and if you feel brave then hack this away.

Totally agree - remove the remote is an excellent idea.

Hack the case away - Well I actually prefer to remove the entire platic case from the 120x series - the unit is still totally closed BUT becomes MUCH smaller without the cosmetic cover in place.
 

Mad Mr H

Novice Member
Roland - I understand the 9** series have this very clever error checking system.

With the 919 forced air system are the PJ fans still running inside the unit and the duct used to remove the air?

Or did you remove the fans from the unit ? and "fool" the error system ?
 

Swiss-Steve

Active Member
Sorry Everyone,

I have had a busy week doing some testing of some modifications to my custom sheilding within my 9500.


I do agree that the SilenX fans don't suit every projector, BUT for our Marquee series projectors, they are PERFECT.
I have done temperature testing of each of the board throughout the projector, I had every temp lower by 2'c or greater.
The biggest drop was for the HDM which runs very hot in the Marquee series.

I also posted on AVS about my rear heatsink modified, which removes a lot of the heat issues with the rear 3 boards, they ran very VERY HOT.



Oh Yeah, that gaffer tape also seals some of the holes so all the air flows over the heasinks, not through the holes in the case :smashin:
The tape was a temp solution (test LVPS), I use 3M spray adhesive to hold in place.
This is something you should do with the tube shells, tape all the seams so air doesn't leak, the tube, VNB and magnetics will run cooler.


Appreciate your comments Andy while I have been busy.


Cheers
Steve
 

surrey lad

Active Member
If anyone is struggling to find the older series silenX SX-12025-14 fans (I spent hours searching) just take a look here http://www.vendur.no/catalog/index.php?cPath=65_52 they're the LED version, hurry as theres only 2 left!

There must be a way of disconnecting the LEDs, if not I may decide to add some 'go faster stripes' to my Quee :D
 

Swiss-Steve

Active Member
Yeah, but all Barco's come with racing stripes out of the box :rotfl:



The LED's wouldn't cause any issues, but I myself would work out a way to disconnect them or cut the them out.




Cheers
Steve
 

Boris Blank

Member
For anyone not sure about cutting the fan holes on the LVPS on the 9500LC to take Notura fans (or any other fan of a differing size to the stock), here'e an easy way that cost £4.99 and took 15 minutes to complete! Might not be as neat as Steve's but it works!

I bought a Coping Saw from Maplins, cost £4.99. This saw has blades that can cut metal - so what I hear you say! Well the neat thing is that the blade can be moved to any angle so that it can cut a fairly good circle or straight line or whatever, also the saw comes apart so that the blade can be removed, inserted through the existing fan hole, reconnect the blade to the saw and then start cutting.

If this confuses you a bit have a look at the pictures below. I broke a couple of blades in the process but as the saw came with spares included it was only a few seconds before I got going again! All that needs to be done now is finish off the edges with a file and thats it!


IMG_0419.jpg

Starting out. You can see where I made the first cut and then slowly turned the saw blade to cut a circle. Didn't really have to turn it much as the blade is thin and will quite happily follow the line that needs to be cut.

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View from the other side.

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See here that the blade on the saw has been turned so that it is actually cutting on the horizontal plane even though the main part of the saw is upright.


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15 minutes later including blade changes and photographing. Ahh, finished! Edges need cleaned, but thats easily done with a metal file. After that its simple to fit the new fans etc.

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Clearer view of the saw itself - you can see where the blade fits. The saw handle is unscrewed to either turn the blade or to fully release the blade.

Easy as pie! Thanks to Steve and Andy for the inspiration :thumbsup:

Paul
 

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