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Marantz xt32 sub cal problem

indus

Distinguished Member
Hi
I thought it might be better if I post this here as there is more traffic and I'm assuming the set up is common to all Marantz machines.

I tried to set up my 7702 for the first time last night. When I ran xt32 it told me my sub level was too high and I should decrease it at the sub until the db reading on the screen reaches 75bd.

No matter how low I turned the sub down (inc the ref setting) I couldn't get it below 80db in room gain mode or 85db in anechoic mode.

When I completed the xt32 set up it set the sub level to -12db. As this is the max trim xt32 can apply I'm confused about whats going on.

Can anybody help?

Thanks
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
How close to the sub was the mic during calibration? It is unusual to get as much noise from a sub even if dealing with a very large model. Are you sure that you are turning down the volume/gain setting on the sub that directly corresponds to the low level LFE input? What happens if you set this as low as it allows?

XTZ suggest that Bass Level be set to grey reference setting if using a surround processor. They also suggest setting the level for most home theatre receivers & surround sound processors to the “REF LEVEL” position indicated by the green dot. The “REF LEVEL” position is supposedly calibrated to work with most surround sound systems once the receiver/processor levels are properly adjusted.
 
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indus

Distinguished Member
How close to the sub was the mic during calibration? It is unusual to get as much noise from a sub even if dealing with a very large model. Are you sure that you are turning down the volume/gain setting on the sub that directly corresponds to the low level LFE input? What happens if you set this as low as it allows?

XTZ suggest that Bass Level be set to grey reference setting if using a surround processor. They also suggest setting the level for most home theatre receivers & surround sound processors to the “REF LEVEL” position indicated by the green dot. The “REF LEVEL” position is supposedly calibrated to work with most surround sound systems once the receiver/processor levels are properly adjusted.

Hi Dante

The mic was about 3.5-4m from the front of the sub.

I am indeed setting the sub gain to the 'ref' as XTZ suggest.

But I'm confused by your comment about setting the avr volume to ref. Is this something I'm meant to do prior to launching Audyssey?

Thanks
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
THe settings all related to the sub as opposed to the receiver. No, there's nothing you need alter in terms of levels onboard the receiver or processor prior to running the calibration. Any levels set prior to the calibration are wiped and overwritten.
 

indus

Distinguished Member
Thanks.

Should I be worried that Audyssey is applying the max trim ie -12db to the sub channel?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Yes, this means that the sub may not actually be levelled because you've no idea of how much louder the level actually is if the adjustment is on its extreme periphery. Are you sure that you are using the BASS LEVEL dial on the sub to try reduce the level? Even if it means setting lower than that suggested by XTZ, you need to lower the level so that the level setting adjustment on the receiver isn't maxed out. If you can't then you are going to have to attenuate the signal from the receiver going to the sub if the sub cannot lower it enough to bring the adjustment level closer to the ideal. This is very strange though and I'm wondering whether there's a fault with the sub's own BASS LEVEL (volume) adjustment?
 

indus

Distinguished Member
It's definitely the bass knob I'm using and I've dialled it all the way to minimum and still no joy.

I must say that the first third of the knobs range doesn't seem to audibly do much. In other words to my ear it doesn't seem to decrease the tone much.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
It isn't reducing or adjusting the tone, it is a volume control that should be control the sub's amplification. It it isn't then I'd suspect a fault with the sub?
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
If I might chime in
I have struggled with this issue for years.
As soon as you click, off the green dot the volume (Gain) should be at minimum volume.
At least this is what happens with my KK-808 Sub woofers.

I know exactly the problem you have as I run 2 Quattro stacks (8 subs) which give far too much volume to satisfy Audyssey.
So with only one sub powered click the gain off the green dot and look at the volume on the Audyssey pre-calibration screen
look at setting the volume at 61db, now this will sound very low but just ignore that.
Switch the sub off and repeat for the next two subs, try and have them balanced.
Then switch on all 3 subs and check combined they read around 72-73 db.
Ignore any Audyssey warning that they are too low.
This is what I have to do and post calibration I still get -9.0 Stack one -8.00 Stack two AVR trim readings which accounts for the subs combined and room gain.

Another option, which is easier, is to fit an in line attenuator of say -10 db that way you can leave the subs on green dots.
Post Audyssey this gave me -7 trim on the AVR for both stacks.

as you can see I am still messing with this, at the moment back to trying to manually balance the volume
Cheers
Andy
 

indus

Distinguished Member
Lesmor, you've got the wrong end of the stick mate. I've only got one sub, its called a 3x12 as it has three 12 inch drivers in one enclosure.

I'll look into the attenuator, but if my wife gets a decent bonus this year I might just ditch Audyssey and get a Dirac!
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
Lesmor, you've got the wrong end of the stick mate. I've only got one sub, its called a 3x12 as it has three 12 inch drivers in one enclosure.

I'll look into the attenuator, but if my wife gets a decent bonus this year I might just ditch Audyssey and get a Dirac!
Ah my bad I thought they were 3 x 12" stacked subs
In that case I'm surprised the reference green dot isn't calibrated to 75db the same as Kreisel subs,then it would be no problem.
Good luck with the Dirac
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
FYI I think both the KK & XTZ subs both use claridy amps so Andy's problem is probably the same as yours Indus. The amps are both made by Claridy and possibly so are the controls layout.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
I think the 3x12 has 1 amp per 12" driver IIRC are there 3 sets of controls or one master control for all 3 amps which I would suspect it has.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member

indus

Distinguished Member

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
Thanks. Those back panels do look spookily similar!

Anyway, I think xt32 has takes part of the blame but the solution seems fairly straightforward, ie a phono attenuator.
Yes as per my previous post that is the easiest solution and saves faffing around with the sub gain.
-10 should bring it back in range.

I bought two different sizes
I made a mistake and imported a pair of -6db (cant get -6 in the Uk) which made no difference as I still had -12 on both stacks.
I'm Tempted to sell them and try -15db

Don't be surprised that when fitted and the subs "Thump" during the calibration it will sound very faint
Lets know how you get on
Cheers
Andy
 

indus

Distinguished Member
Thanks Andy, where did you buy yours from?
 

fatboy frank

Distinguished Member
Copied my post from the XTZ Cinema Series 1x12 and 3x12 Subwoofer thread.
Here's an article on inline attenuators, quite an interesting read Attenuators
These might be a bit on the expensive side, but they do XLR ones too.
Their online shop inline attenuators link here in-line attenuators Not bad either, priced for a pair in various dB levels.
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
Thanks Andy, where did you buy yours from?
I got the -10 db Rothwell attenuators from Audiovisual online via Amazon, fantastic quick service.
Two in a pack they might seem expensive at £38.99 but are very good quality
Attenuators
Contrary to some feedback I got on Amazon they do exactly what you want.
I am tempted to sell mine and go -15db but might be too much of a reduction
Cheers
Andy
 
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fatboy frank

Distinguished Member
I got the -10 db Rothwell attenuators from Audiovisual online via Amazon, fantastic quick service.
Two in a pack they might seem expensive at £38.99 but are very good quality
Attenuators
Contrary to some feedback I got on Amazon they do exactly what you want.
I am tempted to sell mine and go -15db but might be too much of a reduction
Cheers
Andy
Same ones as I've linked to in my post.
 

fatboy frank

Distinguished Member

MemX

Prominent Member
I'm guessing that the -12 trim level on the LFE channel in XT32 on the Marantz is a Marantz-specific thing - the Onkyo 818 can go down to -15.
 

fatboy frank

Distinguished Member
I'm guessing that the -12 trim level on the LFE channel in XT32 on the Marantz is a Marantz-specific thing - the Onkyo 818 can go down to -15.
It's not a 'Marantz' specific thing, generally the vast majority of processors and AVR's only do +/-12 in the trims, it's more likely an 'Onkyo' specific thing that they buck the trend ;)
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
and Yamaha receivers only allow +/- 10db level adjustments. The range differences wouldn't really make a difference and the differences are negligible. The range should be more than enough to deal with most normal situations. It is very unusual that reducing the sub's own amplification wouldn't bring the line level within range and this should in theory be all that need be done.
 

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