Marantz Separates or AVR

Aziz Ismail

Novice Member
Are there any brand matched avr's that also have a matching stereo amplifier? I really like the M2/3si or Rega Elex-R. Have also looked at Audiolab & NAD C368. I want something matching if that makes sense, looks more pleasing on the eye (and to keep the wife quiet)

What AV Receiver matches well with an integrated amplifier that work well together please?
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Are there any brand matched avr's that also have a matching stereo amplifier? I really like the M2/3si or Rega Elex-R. Have also looked at Audiolab & NAD C368. I want something matching if that makes sense, looks more pleasing on the eye (and to keep the wife quiet)

What AV Receiver matches well with an integrated amplifier that work well together please?
NAD do some nice AVR's, but like Arcam & Anthem they are dearer than their equivalently spec'd Denon/Marantz counterparts.

Here's a list of Stereo Amps with HT Bypass:

It's not exhaustive, so there may be other models not listed. Any of the Denon/Marantz amps on this list will cosmetically match the same brand AVR.

Personally though, while I get the WAF has to be considered. I'd rather buy an Amp/AVR combo based on sound signature, features, speaker matching to the amp & reliability over looks.

Edit *Most (that aren't silly money) are pretty much black/silver boxes anyway imo!
 
Last edited:

Aziz Ismail

Novice Member
NAD do some nice AVR's, but like Arcam & Anthem they are dearer than their equivalently spec'd Denon/Marantz counterparts.

Here's a list of Stereo Amps with HT Bypass:

It's not exhaustive, so there may be other models not listed. Any of the Denon/Marantz amps on this list will cosmetically match the same brand AVR.

Personally though, while I get the WAF has to be considered. I'd rather by an Amp/AVR combo based on sound signature, features, speaker matching to the amp & reliability over looks.
Yes I can appreciate where you are coming from. Just had a look at that list and there's quiet a lot to choose from.

My current Onkyo TX-NR828 receiver is fine but I feel it's sort of dated now hence why I want to upgrade. The only thing that is bothering me, is to go down the HT bypass route and invest in a separate stereo amplifier with a new AVR or just simply buy a decent enough AVR, see how that sounds & if I am still not happy than add an integrated amplifier into the equation.
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
Yes I can appreciate where you are coming from. Just had a look at that list and there's quiet a lot to choose from.

My current Onkyo TX-NR828 receiver is fine but I feel it's sort of dated now hence why I want to upgrade. The only thing that is bothering me, is to go down the HT bypass route and invest in a separate stereo amplifier with a new AVR or just simply buy a decent enough AVR, see how that sounds & if I am still not happy than add an integrated amplifier into the equation.
Your photo has much better power amp stages than avr nowadays..proper power output. 78w with 7 channels driven.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
My current Onkyo TX-NR828 receiver is fine but I feel it's sort of dated now hence why I want to upgrade. The only thing that is bothering me, is to go down the HT bypass route and invest in a separate stereo amplifier with a new AVR or just simply buy a decent enough AVR, see how that sounds & if I am still not happy than add an integrated amplifier into the equation.
I think to answer this question, you need to work out what you want any new AVR/HT Bypass amp to achieve.

Are you looking to use the system for both music & movies, or mainly movies?

I chose the HT Bypass route as I use my system for both music/movies 50/50 split. I already had a good AVR (Denon x4500h), great for movies, but as has been mentioned poor on the music front. This is why I bought the Audiolab 6000A.

If music listening is not important to you, an integrated amp with (or without) HT Bypass is less important. So, you need to ask/think how important is good quality music/stereo sound to you and how often do you listen to music?

You also need to think about what budget? you have to achieve this..... as it can easily run.into thousands of pounds. So set a budget and go from there.
 
Last edited:

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Your photo has much better power amp stages than avr nowadays..proper power output. 78w with 7 channels driven.
This makes no sense mate. I assume there's a typo in there somewhere 🤷‍♂️
 

Aziz Ismail

Novice Member
Your photo has much better power amp stages than avr nowadays..proper power output. 78w with 7 channels driven.
Where did you get this specific information from please? I've read that a lot of companies "lie" about the wattage figures so its hard to get an idea of how much power each receiver can output over 5/7 channels.
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
Where did you get this specific information from please? I've read that a lot of companies "lie" about the wattage figures so its hard to get an idea of how much power each receiver can output over 5/7 channels.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Where did you get this specific information from please? I've read that a lot of companies "lie" about the wattage figures so its hard to get an idea of how much power each receiver can output over 5/7 channels.
I wouldn't get too hooked up on watts per channel figures tbh. Unless you room is particularly large, all current AVR's will have more than enough power for the average UK room settings etc.

My Denon X4500H outputs roughly 78wpc (powering 7 speakers) - centre, surrounds & 4 Atmos heights - and I can't get anywhere near reference levels, not because of distortion or clipping. More that it's just too damn loud and prolonged exposure would cause hearing damage.

My 6000A (50wpc), driving my Monitor Audio Silver 100's is loud @ -20dB in my 15ft lounge!
 
Last edited:

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
I wouldn't get too hooked up on watts per channel figures tbh. Unless you room is particularly large, all current AVR's will have more than enough power for the average UK room settings etc.

My Denon X4500H outputs roughly 78wpc (powering 7 speakers) - centre, surrounds & 4 Atmos heights - and I can't get anywhere near reference levels, not because of distortion or clipping. More that it's just too damn loud and prolonged exposure would cause hearing damage.

My 6000A (50wpc), driving my Monitor Audio Silver 100's is loud @ -20dB in my 15ft lounge!

Better to have too much power than not enough, a good quality power amplifier outlasts many av pre changes, and it means at loud levels it's not breaking a sweat, and runs cool. I've blown treble driver from a lower range Yamaha avr.

I've got 5x300w and 2x200w. I'll never need another amp, and outclasses all flagship avrs.
Problem is they're shoving more and more amplifiers into a single box so power will go lower and lower, they'll be point where 18 Ch avr amps have very little power, so that means only using so many channels as the more you use the lower outputs is.

Then you have things like ability for avr to drive low impedance and/or low sensitivity speakers (and big room)
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Better to have too much power than not enough, a good quality power amplifier outlasts many av pre changes, and it means at loud levels it's not breaking a sweat, and runs cool. I've blown treble driver from a lower range Yamaha avr.

I've got 5x300w and 2x200w. I'll never need another amp, and outclasses all flagship avrs.
Problem is they're shoving more and more amplifiers into a single box so power will go lower and lower, they'll be point where 18 Ch avr amps have very little power, so that means only using so many channels as the more you use the lower outputs is.

Then you have things like ability for avr to drive low impedance and/or low sensitivity speakers (and big room)
All good points again mate. But I've never felt that any AVR I've had has been underpowered my own setup consists of a mix of 8ohm & 4ohm (4X dali's on atmos duties) speakers connected to the AVR. Never had an AVR shut down on me due to overheating etc either - even after nearly 12hrs of constant use!

But horses for courses. As you say a lot depends on listening levels. Speaker sensitivity plays a huge part too.
 

Aziz Ismail

Novice Member
I wouldn't get too hooked up on watts per channel figures tbh. Unless you room is particularly large, all current AVR's will have more than enough power for the average UK room settings etc.

My Denon X4500H outputs roughly 78wpc (powering 7 speakers) - centre, surrounds & 4 Atmos heights - and I can't get anywhere near reference levels, not because of distortion or clipping. More that it's just too damn loud and prolonged exposure would cause hearing damage.

My 6000A (50wpc), driving my Monitor Audio Silver 100's is loud @ -20dB in my 15ft lounge!
Ah ok, i always thought the more wpc the better. My B&W Floorstanders are rated bewteen 30w-200w so i was thinking that i needed more power from my reciever thus adding an integrated amplifier to simply drive the fronts.

I have noticed though, these integrated amps from that list don’t seem to have the option for a sub? Is this correct or am i missing something.

Sorry I’m not clued up with this even after reading your diagram & watching YouTube videos 😂

How would this affect my current setup as i ran Audessey and then room corrected the 5.1 to my liking. If i was to switch to the integrated amplifier and run in stereo, i want the option to have the sub on so 2.1.
Would the integrated amplifier and reciever both stay on when watching TV/PS5/Xbox etc and then when i want to listen to music turn off the receiver and leave the integrated amplifier on.

Could I possibly use something like the NAD C368 as this has the option to stream Spotify & Tidal in lossless. Most of my lossless music is on a server connected to an Nvidia Shield so i used to just play music from there.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Ah ok, i always thought the more wpc the better. My B&W Floorstanders are rated bewteen 30w-200w so i was thinking that i needed more power from my reciever thus adding an integrated amplifier to simply drive the fronts.

The 30-200w figure is a range, so any amp with a wpc within that range should drive the speakers. But I would always audition any amp with your your speaker model, as different amps make the same speajer sound different. Some amps like the 6000A have a warm sound, other brands may have a brighter more forward sound. You need to let your ears decide if you like the sound. A stereo integrated amp will make your speakers sound different

I have noticed though, these integrated amps from that list don’t seem to have the option for a sub? Is this correct or am i missing something.

A subwoofer can be connected to any integrated amp that has:

a: it's own preouts
b: A dedicated sub out (like an AVR)
c: Some subwoofers have high-level connections (speaker terminals) Rel for example.

As long as the integrated amp has pre-outs (and most do) you can connect a sub using 2 RCA cables.

How would this affect my current setup as i ran Audessey and then room corrected the 5.1 to my liking. If i was to switch to the integrated amplifier and run in stereo, i want the option to have the sub on so 2.1.

You can do it, but they'll be extra steps/equipment involved to share the same sub for stereo (2.1) & HT (5.1) use. I would start with auditioning a few stereo integrated amps with your speakers. This will help you decide if you even want a integrated amp!

Would the integrated amplifier and reciever both stay on when watching TV/PS5/Xbox etc and then when i want to listen to music turn off the receiver and leave the integrated amplifier on.

Yep.

Could I possibly use something like the NAD C368 as this has the option to stream Spotify & Tidal in lossless. Most of my lossless music is on a server connected to an Nvidia Shield so i used to just play music from there.

Yes. Connecting you Nvidia Shield to a NAD C368 (with BluOS module - the streaming bit) would achieve this. Connecting a sub to the C368 is trickier though. It has pre-outs, but these (I believe) can be set to be used with a sub or used to implement HT Bypass function, but not both at the same time.
 

Mr Wolf

Active Member
Ah ok, i always thought the more wpc the better. My B&W Floorstanders are rated bewteen 30w-200w so i was thinking that i needed more power from my reciever thus adding an integrated amplifier to simply drive the fronts.
You may not realise that when watching a movie the majority of the time your amplifier isn't having to output more than about 1-2 watts of power. High power demand only comes from very loud dynamic peaks in a movie's soundtrack which can be up to +20dB higher than the standard listening level. A 20dB increase requires 100x the amplifier power.

A while ago I created a spreadsheet model to help me estimate my amplifier power requirements based on listening level, speaker sensitivity and speaker placement. This is what it shows for your B&W LCR speakers at an assumed listening distance of 3.5 metres at -12dB volume, a typical maximum listening level in a home setting.

1618823723242.png


By default, the model de-rates manufacturers' speaker sensitivity ratings by 1.0dB to be conservative and assumes a 3.0dB boundary gain, also conservative in a home setting.

The model shows that -12dB is about the maximum level you should ever run it at as it's wise to have at least 3dB headroom. 3dB headroom requires double the power of none. Due to its lower sensitivity, the weakest link here is the HTM6 centre channel speaker which requires 61.5W to give 3dB headroom at a -12dB listening level. Denon/Marantz "guarantee" their AVRs to have at least 70% of 2-channel output figure when 5-channels are driven which is 87.5W (0.7 x 125W) for the SR7015 so you should be good for this level.

In case you didn't know, the LFE subwoofer channel can have +30dB peaks which require 1000x the amplifier power which is why powerful subwoofers are needed to be able to keep up with the other speakers. In most systems I see the subs are the weakest link, not the AVR.

I think the main SQ advantage of going the separates route is in having a superior processor/pre-amp, not the power amps, unless of course you genuinely need more power than an AVR can deliver.
 
Last edited:

alebonau

Well-known Member
Ah ok, i always thought the more wpc the better. My B&W Floorstanders are rated bewteen 30w-200w so i was thinking that i needed more power from my reciever thus adding an integrated amplifier to simply drive the fronts.
theres watts and watts... the power supply on avrs tends to be shared across all the channels needs to power...vs say in a 2ch integrated where only supports the two channels... there is also the quality of the power... there is much compromise in squeezing in all those channels in an AVR vs say only 2 in a 2ch integrated... look at some dedicated multichannel power amps even a budget rotel... and then see how impossible it is to even fit a budget rotel multichannel amp into your typical AVR :)

I have noticed though, these integrated amps from that list don’t seem to have the option for a sub? Is this correct or am i missing something.
typically easiest way to do this is to run a 2ch sub... off pre outs on 2ch integrated and this along with mains gets Eq'd by audyssey when you run your EQ :)
 

Aziz Ismail

Novice Member
Can someone advise me on if this is worth doing and beneficial. I was looking at using this: https://www.hificorner.co.uk/marantz-8k-ultra-slim-av-receiver-7-2-channel-processing-7-x-90w.html as my receiver to deal with all the video etc and then add something like: Marantz MM7025 2 channel Power Amplifier to run my floor standers in stereo mode. I have looked at the receiver has pre-outs.

Is this better with them being separates or am I better to just invest in the SR7015 as an all in one box? Marantz SR7015 8K AV Receiver

Another option I was considering was to simply just upgrade my current receiver to the Marantz SR7015 and then at a later stage, add a M2SI into the mix.

Thanks again.
 
Can someone advise me on if this is worth doing and beneficial. I was looking at using this: Marantz NR1711 8K AV Receiver as my receiver to deal with all the video etc and then add something like: Marantz MM7025 2 channel Power Amplifier to run my floor standers in stereo mode. I have looked at the receiver has pre-outs.

Is this better with them being separates or am I better to just invest in the SR7015 as an all in one box? Marantz SR7015 8K AV Receiver

Another option I was considering was to simply just upgrade my current receiver to the Marantz SR7015 and then at a later stage, add a M2SI into the mix.

Thanks again.
I'd go for option 3.

I'd also avoid any "slimline" AVRs anyway, they are purely form over function. There is a reason why most AVRs are so large, and the slimline jobs are inevitably going to be compromised.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Can someone advise me on if this is worth doing and beneficial. I was looking at using this: Marantz NR1711 8K AV Receiver as my receiver to deal with all the video etc and then add something like: Marantz MM7025 2 channel Power Amplifier to run my floor standers in stereo mode. I have looked at the receiver has pre-outs.

No major benefit with this setup unless you have either a very large room or difficult to drive front speakers
Which I don't think either is the case based on previous posts in this thread.

The above setup won't improve stereo/music performance either. Over & above the slightly better musical performance that Marantz AVR's have over their cheaper Denon equivalent models.

Is this better with them being separates or am I better to just invest in the SR7015 as an all in one box? Marantz SR7015 8K AV Receiver

Possibly. Depends how important Music listening is to you and if you intend to use the Marantz AVR for both movies & Music.

As said above Marantz are better for music than Denon, but no AVR (except possibly the buggy & expensive Anthem/Arcam ones will be as good as a decent Stereo integrated amp with HT bypass.

Another option I was considering was to simply just upgrade my current receiver to the Marantz SR7015 and then at a later stage, add a M2SI into the mix.

See above paragraph. This would be my preferred (and imo best) option. I do this with a Denon 4500H & Audiolab 6000A (ht bypass integrated amp. I chose the Denon over the equivalent Marantz model as the denon has the same features but is cheaper.

So I would actually look to swap the Marantz SR7015, with the Denon equivalent (I think that's a 3700) as it's:

a: cheaper,
b: adding the M2si negates the need to have the one improvement the Marantz offers over the Denon (ie marginal musical improvement). Since the integrated amp will handle all 2 channel/music duties with any AVR being bypassed.


One other thing. I do feel like we're repeating a lot of advice to you. Please if possible go to a Audio store & demo the combo.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
So I would actually look to swap the Marantz SR7015, with the Denon equivalent (I think that's a 3700) as it's:
The Denon equivalent to the SR7015 would be the AVCX4700.

There are both a Denon and a Marantz 9 channel model below these that include a full set of pre outs and basically the same level of Audyssey room EQ correction. These two modes are the Denon AVCX3700 and the Marantz SR6015. These modes are less powerful than those above them.

Note that all Marantz models include front left and right pre outs, even the models below the SR6015.
 
Last edited:

Jester1066

Well-known Member
These two modes are the Denon AVRC3700 and the Marantz SR6015. These modes are less powerful than those above them.
Only marginally. Apart the power difference, the x4700 has better alpha processing AL32 vs 3700's AL24. Depending on the OP's total budget the £300 increase to get the 4700 might be a factor. A forum member, did a side by side comparison of the 2 Denon's which may help the OP decide:


Either way the Denons are cheaper than either of their Marantz equivalents, but have a comparible feature set to the respective Marantz models 😊
 

gibbsy

Moderator
vs 3700's AL24.
The X3700 doesn't have any form of Alpha processing. AL24 was last fitted to the X4300 and above, replaced with AL32 from the X4400 models onwards. No X3XXX models have ever had Alpha processing.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
As said above Marantz are better for music than Denon, but no AVR (except possibly the buggy & expensive Anthem/Arcam ones will be as good as a decent Stereo integrated amp with HT bypass.
those still wont be as good as a "decent stereo integrated amp with ht bypass" not to say not good enough for some...but given the price you spend on those AVRs you can get some tasty 2ch integrated instead :)
 
The X3700 doesn't have any form of Alpha processing. AL24 was last fitted to the X4300 and above, replaced with AL32 from the X4400 models onwards. No X3XXX models have ever had Alpha processing.
I thought the 3700 had the AL24?

Edit:

No, you are correct, it doesn't .
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Sony A90J Thoughts, madVR Processor & Sonus faber Lumina II Reviews + Movie & TV roundup
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Q Acoustics announces Q Active app availability
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
TCL introduces Roku smart TVs for UK
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Melco Audio introduces new N100-H50 digital music library
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 16th June 2021
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Deezer introduces 360 Sessions to showcase spatial audio
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom