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Marantz, Samsung or Immersive??

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by dealmaker, Jan 28, 2004.

  1. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    It's time to replace my trusty Sony VPL VW10 HT and I've shortlisted (on paper) three projectors :

    Marantz VP12-S3

    Samsung SP-H700A

    and

    Immersive Virtuoso

    I've had to discount the SIM2 range because of their stupidly long throw lenses!


    All of these seem to have the main features I'm looking for - not sure about the chip in the Immersive though.

    Question is - do I wait a couple of weeks and get some user feedback/info on the Samsung (people who have seen it in the USA say it's tremendous).....OR do I jump in and get the Marantz????

    Opinions please.

    Thanks
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    What chip are you not sure about in Immersive? The DMD array or the de-interlacing? or the scaling? or some other?

    Gordon
     
  3. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    Hi Gordon,

    All of them actually - I have not been able to find out a great deal about it!

    Is it a HD2+ DLP unit?

    Thanks
     
  4. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    is this the right question to ask? What about grey scale accuracy and colour accuracy? Thi might help separate them out.

    I would take the Imersive but haven't seen the Samsung
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    It's an HD2, Silicon Optix scaling engine and Faroudja chip. Not sure on the exact F chip though.

    The claimed specs for the Virtuoso are measured at calibrated realworld settings.

    Have fun.

    Gordon
     
  6. Paul D

    Paul D
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    I own the S3, and have seen the Immersive.

    Both are superb, and i think you would be happy with either.

    The Immersive is HD2 the S3 HD2+.

    The Immersive is available at a cheaper price than the S3 (see www.convergent-av.co.uk ), so it would come down to your budget etc.

    Since i own the S3, i can comfirm it is simply the best DLP i have seen.

    Paul...;)
     
  7. RTFM

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  8. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    RTFM,

    I would call it long throw! my home cinema room is 15 feet long (and 14 feet wide so it's hardly small compared to some others)- virtually every decent projector on the market will easily fill my 8ft screen in my room with no problems EXCEPT the SIM2 range (which would need to be mounted IN the external wall or outside in the garden!) - so forgive my frustration.

    I've no doubt it's an excellent product - just one that's ruled out for me (and several others) by the choice of optics!

    If SIM2 introduced a short throw lens option (recognising that not everyone has 25ft long rooms), then I'd be delighted to include one of their HD2+ in my shortlist.

    Right now though it's between the Marantz and the new Samsung!
     
  9. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    The 'potential' contrast differences of these chipsets are not that difference. 2000:1 to 3000:1 isn't much in the broad scheme of things. To show a decent difference you will need to jump to something like 15000:1 (like CRT). But no panel based technology does this. 2000 to 3000 is really tiny in the grand scheme of things. How you measure it is all important and VERY misleading when comparing projectors. A properly calibrated (grey scale leading to good piccy) projector is very different to one that has been tweaked to get the highest contrast. I therefore think there will not be a great deal to pick between these two chipsets when properly set up (which you shuld do as a matter of course).
     
  10. ReTrO

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    Thought about a Sharp XV-Z9000/10000/12000?

    Throw is 1.8-2.4:1 standard or 1.5-1.9:1 with a lens adapter.

    I would consider 1.5:1 short throw and long throw really anything over 2.0:1. The longest throw on a projector with 'standard' optics I have used is 2.6:1 (on it's max setting).
     
  11. RTFM

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    Dealmaker,

    you can fill a 52" x 92" screen with all the Sim2 range except the Domino 20 in a 15 foot room.
    IMHO that is as large as you would want to go in such a room.
     
  12. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    RTFM,

    Thanks for your humble opinion - fact remains that I have a 96" wide screen and that due to those small inconveniences called walls a SIM2 projector won't offer what nearly every projector on the market does within my envelope i.e an 8ft image in my room.

    Please don't try to justify it on the old lame excuse that "you only need such and such size screen" blah blah...fact is I've had an 8 ft wide image for 4 years and I like it and am used to it - I'd now like to buy a projector that will fill it - virtually EVERY other PJ on the market WILL - SIM2 machines WON'T - either SIM2 have got it right and everyone else on the market has it wrong OR there's more demand for "cinema like" images in real world rooms and so other manufacturers are producing equipment to that brief.

    From MY perspective I think SIM2 are missing out and I'm sure that they will wake up and smell the coffee soon as well!
     
  13. RTFM

    RTFM
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  14. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    RTFM,

    You are hardly un-biased then!!!! :rolleyes:

    Panasonic probably sell that many here in the UK in a couple of hours - there the rub!

    Again I've not said they are'nt great projectors - just that they are room limited - if I could have one then no doubt I'd be talking to someone like you about demoing one - but I cant and I wont!

    So for me it's the Marantz or the Samsung!!

    Hope you sell plenty of SIM2's !!!

    Thanks
     
  15. RTFM

    RTFM
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    Dealmaker,

    If you can wait a couple of weeks I could dem you the new Sim2 500 Link which has a choice of five lenses.
    You will definitely be able to fill an 8 foot screen with this PJ.

    Only trouble is you may have to sell a kidney to buy one !!!!!!

    Good luck with your prospective purchase.

    Jeff
     
  16. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    RTFM,

    Thanks would like that - only trouble is that one condition of getting a new projector is that SHMBO gets a new Range Rover!

    If I got the 500 Link I think I'd struggle to get her a Skoda!

    Thanks anyway!
     
  17. dealmaker

    dealmaker
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    Paul, (fulabeer)

    The Marantz seems to be available for circa £7000 - that seems pretty good value to me ( i think I paid £6k for my Sony)

    How much better than my trusty VPLVW10HT is the Marantz?...I know it's a subjective question!
     
  18. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Even though I am the Immersive distributor I'd like to comment that a Marantz S3 is a considerable leap forward in performance over a VPL10. De-interlacing is superior, colour accuracy is superior, sense of depth and perspective and sharpness of image are all superior. No contest.........(same for Immersive though..)

    Gordon
     
  19. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Dealmaker, i've owned a Sony VW10HT:)

    I really did love it, and only sold it due to it's poor black level.
    Although the Sony had a very low contrast level, most of the time this didn't seem to matter. ie it seemed higher than the specs would have you believe.

    However the latest HD2/HD2+ machine are really in a class of their own.
    The 7 segment machines had just the extra push i needed to change back from CRT.
    I assumed single chip DLPs would be off limits to me, as i had always been bothered by rainbows.
    I have seen the occational rainbow on the S3, but they really are few and far between.
    There is not such thing as a perfect projector, it's more a matter of finding one that bothers you the least. So the rare rainbow i do see, is more than a fair trade for the gobsmaking images the S3 gives!

    I paid £7100(plus massive discount on the rest of my upgrade equipment!) for one of the first two S3s in the country, which i got well before Xmas. I can only assume that they will be available a little cheaper now.

    I would still give Gordon a ring, and see have much the Virtuoso is going for.

    It's a shame about you not being able to accommodate one of the Sim range. I do think they are a little over priced, but the customer support seems very good indeed.

    Ps
    There must be something very special about the S3. Everytime i try to do a quick check on certain bit of a film (if somebody mentions to have a look for ??? etc). I end up watching the entire film!(sat in awe!)
     
  20. RTFM

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    Dealmaker,

    I second what Gordon says.
    I used to sell lots of VW10s and 11s.
    Any of the HD2 or 2+ DLP units will give you a profound upgrade in picture quality.

    Jeff
     
  21. tbrar

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    Going from what I have read and the limited experience that I have had with one chip DLP FPJ (actually FPJ Full Stop) it appears that a noticable difference between the two HD2 chips, HD2 & HD2+, becomes apparent when the HD2+ is used *in conjuction* with the seven segment colour wheel.

    I have had three DLP's at home, one with the HD2 chip and two with the HD2+. Interestingly one of the HD2+ machines retained the six segment colour wheel, the other the seven segment wheel. All were set up as best as I could using humble tools such as DVE and the PJ's preset 6500k settings.

    Out of all the one PJ with the best picture to my eye used the HD2+ and the seven segment wheel, hence its the one that I kept. This combination, from what I have seen, produces the most pleasing PQ with noticably less dithering in dark scenes than the other two machines..
     
  22. salizar

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    Here is a tip for any one considering a projector - wait until first quarter next year. I'm bound by a non-disclosure agreement, but here is what I can tell:

    Imagine if a company found a way to double the lumins in a bulb for only a couple of dollars - they have.

    Imagine a projector that doesn't use DLP, LCD or CRT technology but rather Photons - it is coming.

    Imagine a projector that only costs $500.00 - trust me it is coming.

    Now imagine that all of these things are coming in the same package and you now understand why you should wait - the projector market is about to be shaken up - big time and prices are going to drop drastically and that is going to happen early next year.
     
  23. ian_guinan

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    Sorry Salizar,

    You're going to have to give us more than that to take notice.

    Imagine if a company found a way to double the lumens of a bulb, but it halved the lifespan?

    Imagine if any display technology that emitted light used photons, including LCD, CRT, DLP?

    Imagine that any consumer electrical device eventually reaches a price so low that you can't imagine it. I'll go further than you and say that I know for certain that projectors will be less than $100 within 3 years. (witness the $25 chinese DVD players as an example).

    Imagine the non-disclosure agreement so solid that not even the slightest glimpse of the scientific principles involved leaked 12 months before its mass market release?

    .....I'm having difficulty imagining?

    Ian Guinan
     
  24. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Imagine sat staring at a blank wall, while waiting for over a year for this new projector technology to emerge!:suicide:

    :D
    :rotfl:
    :D

    Pleae excuse me, i'm just off to watch a film RIGHT NOW!:devil:
     
  25. ReTrO

    ReTrO
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    Don't all light sources emit photons?
     
  26. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  27. Cool-hand

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    Hi

    Very interesting thread, Im very keen on the Sim2 30 but was also put off by the long throw issue and also do believe Sim are shooting themselves in the foot by not having a short throw option. But boy are there projectors good. (perhaps the long throw is what makes the image that bit special!)?

    I've spent a fair amount of time since the Event II looking at all sorts of pj's and always always keep coming back to the sim2.

    Am i right in saying the Sim Domino 30 has a slightly shorter throw than the Dom20 and that the 300 Xtra has also the interchangeable lenses (as well as the 500). I could cope with the price of the 300 but would stop their!!!

    I have decided atleast one thing. That I will have a 7' screen. The distance between back of wall and screen is 4.2mtr. Will a Dom30 fill a 7' screen at this distance?

    I really like the idea that the 300 Xtra can have software upgrades but how far can they take you. Someone called James in a main Sim dealer in Worthing told me the upgrades were to help playing new/problem dvd's but is that not the duty of the dvd player ((only it just sounded like a crock to me!) amongst other information that contradicts some of the more reliable info on this site in mho). Its put me off ever going back there:confused:

    Will the software upgrades be free from dealers as and when released/required?

    I've yet to see the Marantz S3 but the software upgrade thing has kinda won it for me (pic quality goes without saying :) ) DOH! I said it :laugh:


    Rgds - CH.
     
  28. RTFM

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    CH,

    A lot of questions there.
    The Domino 20 and 30 share the same optics but because the DMD is smaller in the 20, the image is smaller for the same throw.
    The Domino 20 is 2.2 to 1 at it's widest and the Domino 30 is 1.8 to 1.
    The Xtra lens is not interchangeable. Only the new 3 chipper, the 500 Link has that facility with a choice of 5 different Minolta lenses.
    You will have no trouble filling a 7 foot screen at 4.2m with a Domino 30. In fact you are within a hair's breadth of filling a 92" wide screen ( 91.84" )
    The SW upgrades have nothing to do with new/problem DVDs.
    They are released if Sim2 feel they improve performance and control of their PJs over earlier versions. I find it reassuring that Sim2 are constantly striving to improve their products.
    Software upgrades can be downloaded and installed by the end user if he/she is competent with a PC. There is no charge for this.
    If a customer prefers, the dealer can do the upgrade for them.

    I am contemplating starting a Sim2 section on the Forum, subject to the Moderators being in agreement.
    Any thoughts guys ?
     
  29. Cool-hand

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    Hi

    Thanks for the answers. A good idea indeed to start a Sim forum (but you don't ever hear about them going wrong so it might be a bit empty)!

    CH
     
  30. dealmaker

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    Guys,

    Thanks for all the input - I'm very tempted to order the Marantz however I think I'll hold off for a couple of weeks until the first Samsung units hit these shores (however I won't be waiting a year until Salizar's "Photon Torpedo" projector appears :laugh: )

    I'm going to try and contact Samsung UK and get some sense from them as to the anticipated delivery date of the first units - ideally I'd like to do a back to back but in reality this is going to be difficult I fear.

    However I am not going to fall into the trap of waiting for the "next great thing" round the corner - my Sony VPL VW10HT has served me well and I've more than had my money out of it - I'm sure the same will be the case for whichever projector I buy next.
     

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