Marantz/Parasound/Behringer Shootout

Predict the outcome...

  • They will all sound the same (can I buy the Parasound off you please?)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10

meep

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So my Christmas project has assembled itself...

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I'm anxious to build a stereo system to compliment a 7.2.4 atmos movie system and have been reading a lot about ht-bypass stereo preamps, power amps and the like.

I've sourced a Parasound A23 power amp and a Behringer A100 'reference' power amp to get the ball rolling. I intend to compare it to the amps in my Marantz SR7010 feeding a pair of Kef LS50s and (sometimes) augmented by an SVS PB-1000 sub. Strictly stereo and using the Marantz in pure direct mode as a pre-amp.

I'm aware of the shortcomings of the Behringer but if set up correctly, I would expect there to be little or no difference, especially between the power amps. It's the proposition that amplification, if not overdriven, should be transparent that I want to test.

This exercise will be to satisfy my own curiosity and will of course be mostly relevant to me as it's my listening space, my source equipment, my musical taste and my ears. No double-blind tests here!

I will pull together my impressions at the end in a blog article but before setting out, I'd be interested if there's any pointers or suggestions forum members would have or anything they'd like me to try to test.

Looking forward to the journey....
 
How exciting! :D

You have said that you are going to try stereo mode for music, using the Marantz as the pre-amp. It is definitely worth a try, but I think you might notice more improvements in the 7.2.4 set-up, with the power amps on the front three speakers. I am not familiar with the Parasound, but the Behringer can be bridged and used in mono mode on the centre, leaving the Parasound to power the front left and right.

When testing, be sure to try some very dynamic source material, such as Blu Rays with HD audio / Atmos / DTS:X soundtracks, and very dynamic scenes, eg explosions, war scenes, something like Mad Max Fury Road.

Having been down a similar road myself, I found that to get really noticeable improvements for music, as well as the power, I also needed a more musical pre-amp.

Have fun, and I'll look forward to reading about how it went :smashin:
 
Both power amps are bridgeable so I'll be trying both in mono mode as well.

I will of course be trying with movies but as I want to get a decent stereo set up, that will be my focus.

I'm planning for the day when I replace my SR7010 with an a/v processor and want to start building up an amp compliment for that but also appreciate that even with the receiver in place, powering l/c/r with external amps will hen provide the receiver with a bit more headroom for surrounds and heights.

I want to like the A500 as 3x of those across the front in mono mode would be attractive and cost effective but I honestly can't believe right now that it will be as refined as a proper hi-hi pa like the Parasound.

So much listening to do....
 
I predict, in general, the Parasound will win, but for the money, it is hard to beat the Behringer A500. I suspect the Parasound is about £1500, and the Behringer is about £175 ... big difference.

Steve/bluewizard
 
There is a economic factor that simply can not be lost. The Behringer A500 can be Bridged into a Mono 375w Mono Amp. If you put THREE of these for Front and Center at £175 each, you are still far below the cost of the Parasound.

Parasound A23 = £1300

Behringer A500 x 3 = £175 x 3 = £525

Inescapable economics.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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There is a economic factor that simply can not be lost. The Behringer A500 can be Bridged into a Mono 375w Mono Amp. If you put THREE of these for Front and Center at £175 each, you are still far below the cost of the Parasound.

Parasound A23 = £1300

Behringer A500 x 3 = £175 x 3 = £525

Inescapable economics.

Steve/bluewizard

Indeed

and that's exactly the proposition I'm keen to investigate. In theory, the Behringer should sound the same as the Parasound. There is some evidence that it might (the blind test that's floating about the internet) but I need to prove it to myself.
 
I even found some relays on ebay that look like they could be used to provide power on via 12v trigger and delayed anti-bump for the A500 which is about my only issue with it. Well - there is the fugly panel as well - just have to hide it somewhere.
 
Yes, pro audio amps are not the prettiest things in the world, but, for their benefits and value, they are definitely livable with. Plus, the VU meters and led's on the front are a really handy feature.

Here's one in situ in my set-up:

20171207_162831.jpg
 
Do you not find the LEDs annoying when watching a movie?
 
Do you not find the LEDs annoying when watching a movie?
I don't. On the Crown amp (at the top) I have set it so that the display and blue side LED's are permanently switched off, so it is just the green VU meter leds that display. With the Behringer there is the one orange power light that is always on, then the green VU meters.

I actually find it more relaxing to see the visual representation of the power headroom I have in my system when the audio is very dynamic. It is good to see that I am far away from clipping and distortion and that my system is easily able to handle whatever it is I am listening to at the time (even if I turn things up quite loud)!
 
I even found some relays on ebay that look like they could be used to provide power on via 12v trigger and delayed anti-bump for the A500 which is about my only issue with it. Well - there is the fugly panel as well - just have to hide it somewhere.

Do you have a link to the relays or maybe an article about how to use them with the A500?

I switched mine on super cautiously but even with volume full on, there's nothing transmitted to the speakers at power up.
 
So very quick and dirty first impressions....

I had a chance today to plug in the Parasound and Behringer, really just to make sure they were working OK.

My benchmark is my Marantz SR7010 so everything gets compared to that. The Parasound is not new so likely doesn't need any run in but even for this test, it was not even given a warm up period. The Behringer is new from the box so could probably benefit from a bit of run in.

I connected the amps up to the receiver pre-outs using phono and connected my speakers to each in turn. No room correction or anything done, just music played with the receiver in pure direct mode.

Anyway, with just plugging it in and running the first track my Squeezebox threw at me (Apron Strings, Everything But The Girl), the Parasound sounded amazing. There's a slight but perceptible bump in smoothness and openness compared to the Marantz. There's a definite improvement in depth - the image reaches further forward and backward from the speakers than with the Marantz. Nice.

Powering up the Behringer and playing the same track was significant come down. It seemed that the noise floor had magnified and there was a bed of white noise with even some breakup in the vocals. uugh!

I'd read that there were issues with the A500 gain controls and they should be set to max which they were. I also recalled commentators mentioning that the balanced inputs were much better than the unbalanced on the unit. Fortunately, I have a pair of female phono to made XLR adapters so I used these to route the receiver pre outs into the a500. There was an immediate improvement. All the noise I could easily hear through the phono inputs disappeared. Listening very closely (ear to speaker at sensible volumes) there was still a little there and I did catch a tiny amount of vocal breakup but on listening back through the Parasound, I heard the exact same thing so I'm willing to conclude that it's either in the recording or upstream equipment.

However, it's clear that the A500 is not good when using the phono inputs as it seems to exacerbate any issues present in the recording.

I didn't have much time to further evaluate the A500 but my general impression is that it's on a par with the Marantz running in stereo mode and the image depth I perceived using the Parasound seemed to collapse back on itself for a flatter presentation.

Of course, all of the above should be taken with a grain of salt. I may have been suffering from new toy syndrome and expecting the Parasound to be good, maybe that's what I heard.

Lot's more listening to do over the coming couple of weeks and to be fair to each amp, I need to let them bed in for a while.
 
The Controls on the Front of the Behringer A500 are not gain or volume controls, rather they are input level controls.

What were the VU meters doing while you were playing? How high were they going?

You want the Input Level set low enough so that the VU meters are not pegging in the Red when you are playing loud. The Controls are to keep the input level within the working range of the amp.

Generally that is about 1/2 turn on the controls.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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The Controls on the Front of the Behringer A500 are not gain or volume controls, rather they are input level controls.

What were the VU meters doing while you were playing? How high were they going?

You want the Input Level set low enough so that the VU meters are not pegging in the Red when you are playing loud. The Controls are to keep the input level within the working range of the amp.

Generally that is about 1/2 turn on the controls.

Steve/bluewizard

You are correct of course, a slip of the keyboard!

However, there's a know issue with the input level functionality of this unit - it introduces measurable and significant distortion over a defined range of input level settings.

See here;



The universally recommended solution is to run with input leels at max and trim levels using upstream equipment.

As it happens, in this configuration, the Behringer is producing similar output levels to the Parasound so perfect for comparison (I will later measure SPL to calibrate the pre-amp volume controls to produce identical levels for each amp)

To answer your question, with my preamp volume set to around 68, I see the Behringer VU meters peak about half-way on a variety of program material.
 
Those issues with the Behringer A500 were all documented 10 years ago. The design has changed slightly since then, so I'm not sure if the issues are still relevant to the new models.

I have never noticed any audible distortion with mine and have used it in a variety of ways over the past couple of years. I do get a ground loop hum with my PC, but I get that with all the power amps I have tried. I can't fix it at source so I use a Behringer hum destroyer and that completely fixes the issue.

By the way. The Crown XLS range are also very good, affordable, and popular for home use. Another option for you maybe.
 
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Those issues with the Behringer A500 were all documented 10 years ago. The design has changed slightly since then, so I'm not sure if the issues are still relevant to the new models.

I have never noticed any audible distortion with mine and have used it in a variety of ways over the past couple of years. I do get a ground loop hum with my PC, but I get that with all the power amps I have tried. I can't fix it at source so I use a Behringer hum destroyer and that completely fixes the issue.

By the way. The Crown XLS range are also very good, affordable, and popular for home use. Another option for you maybe.

I haven’t read anything about the issues being resolved, but that’s not to say thay haven’t. Plus, there’s a difference between measurable distortion an audible distortion.

I’m so wanting to love the behringer to justify getting 3 but in another session this evening, the Parasound is putting a smile on my face with every track I listen to. I honestly hadn’t expected to perceive a difference but there’s certainly an expansive sound to the a23 that just isn’t there with the other two.

Again, I need to run in the a500 a lot more. And also consider if that smile is worth the significant price difference.
 
I haven’t read anything about the issues being resolved, but that’s not to say thay haven’t. Plus, there’s a difference between measurable distortion an audible distortion.

Exactly, if it's inaudible that's good enough. You can't make something more inaudible!

the Parasound is putting a smile on my face with every track I listen to. I honestly hadn’t expected to perceive a difference but there’s certainly an expansive sound to the a23 that just isn’t there with the other two.

Interesting! The smile is what it's all about :)

Again, I need to run in the a500 a lot more. And also consider if that smile is worth the significant price difference.

Good luck. Can you not keep the Parasound for the front left and rights and use the Behringer, or another power amp, on the centre?
 
Good luck. Can you not keep the Parasound for the front left and rights and use the Behringer, or another power amp, on the centre?

The thought has crossed my mind. It would almost be a shame not to.
 
I just sat my 13 year old son down and played him a single track on all 3 amps. It was music he was unfamiliar with and I asked him simply to tell me which sounded best and why. He has no notion about what an amp is, let alone brands or value.

Hi picked the parasound as the far and away winner. He said he could hear the different instruments better and the sound was a lot fuller.

The marantz was second. He said it was very good but not as good as the Parasound.

The behringer he thought was the poorest of the 3. Not as clear as the others.

Unscientific, I know, but interesting.
 
That is interesting. The Parasound sounds like a keeper! The Behringer is class A/B, some say they may need 100 hours running in, not sure if I buy into that or not. I don't think I noticed a difference with it when I got it, but I did notice my Musical Fidelity M3i sounded better after a run in period.
 
Unscientific, I know, but interesting.

Perhaps more scientific than us old git trying to tell what's different. Kids generally have much better hearing even if untrained :)
 
Pro equipment will always be cheaper and better value than Hi-Fi equipment as they are designed to do a job, with domestic harmony and bells and whistles an irrelevance.

The biggest variation in sound will be the speakers and how they interact with the room, and depending how good the room correction is, is what should always be used (Ignore direct etc.) to get the optimum sound from your system. (I also recommend you look to get a pro room correction unit to put between the pre-and power amps (Dirac Live is a good pro quality system) as this will be far superior to the Marantz room correction)

Sound is very personal and most Hi Fi users will hate the sound they hear in a studio as it’s a warts and all approach, (Its designed to be accurate not nice) which is always a shock to most Hi Fi users. (If music is your main interest, I suggest you go out to a few concerts and live venues (Local pubs and clubs are a good place to start) to hear what it should sound like (It will probably be different to what you think it should sound like) so that you can use it as a reference)

Above all, get something that suits you (Even if it is not accurate) as you are the one living with it.

Have fun

Bill
 
Make your decision for your own reasons.... But... There are some things in common to what I have chosen.... (check my signature).... Needless to say I predict the Parasound.....and it will serve many a speaker upgrade
 
Decision made. Keeping the Parasound. Love it to bits. Behringer is up for sale in classifieds if someone wants to grab a brand new amp...
 
Decision made. Keeping the Parasound. Love it to bits. Behringer is up for sale in classifieds if someone wants to grab a brand new amp...
Can't you return it, Thomann have a 30 day money back guarantee. Or use it on the centre speaker?
 

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