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Manhunt A Game Too Far?

Discussion in 'PC Gaming & Rigs' started by Garrett, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. Garrett

    Garrett
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    I read the review of this game after a member said he was playing it and found the review of the main character un-endearing. I do not mind a bit of violence but the premise of this game is murder with I believe the ability to suffocate some people which seem a little sick. What do other members think especially those that have played it.

    For a review go here.
     
  2. Munkey Boy

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    I was appalled (but not surprised) by the media frenzy today. "Killed by Playstation" was the Mail's headline. It astounds me every time how the true issues are not addressed. Why was the kid homocidal? How did a 17 year old get his hands on a copy of a 18 BBFC rated game?

    To ban games that include violence just reminds me of the furore around 1984 ish when videos were the evil villain, and kneejerk policies came about banning all sorts of titles. I just hope we've learnt from that and games don't get the same treatment.

    As always, its a mediocre game that is set to spoil it for the rest of us. Not having played Manhunt (I read and follow the advice in reviews) I can't really comment, but most reports are that its boring and not worth bothering with.
     
  3. PoochJD

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    Evening,

    So how many of you have been following the reports in today's news that a 17 year old boy, Warren Leblanc (of Leicester), killed a 14-year old boy, Stefan Pakeerah, and who is now heading for a lengthy prison sentence?

    The deceased's parents are claiming that the violent computer game "Manhunt" (which has a mandatory BBFC 18-certificate) was something that Mr Leblanc is alleged to be the reason for the killing having taken place. (Both boys played the game, for hours at a time, over a long period since the game's release! It also appears, both boys parents were NOT aware of the content of the game!)

    As this is not the first time violent material of one kind or another (be it films, books or software) have been "blamed" for the reason society is becoming more violent, I would be interested to find out what AVForum members think about this emotive topic. Do you feel that a violent game or film CAN make somebody more violent? Do you believe that a young person can be adversely affected by violent films or computer games?

    I should just say, I want to try and restrict this discussion to the blame of "violent" material, not pornographic or sexual material.

    My opinion is this: you could take 1000 people, of all ages and from all walks of life, show them a brutally violent sequence from a film or computer game, and you will get 100 different reactions! I personally believe that violent material does NOT affect people. I find it difficult to believe that a game or film showing someone being horrendously murdered in a barbaric method is really the sole cause of making a normal human being, suddenly change. I think, that if any game or film did that, then there has to have been something in that person's psychological history and life-history, that has already made them have violent impulses.

    I use the word "normal", in the sense of an average person, who is not a violent individual and whom is reasonably well-adjusted.

    I don't believe for a second that "Manhunt" is the cause of Leblanc's reason for killing. It may have taught him ways to kill someone, but I don't think it is the root cause, which is what Pakeerah's parents are trying to make the case for. Pakeerah's mother, says that because the boys were both friends with one another, and played the game extensively for hours at a time, that the game should be banned. However, she doesn't seem to want to accept that maybe both boys parents also need to ask a few questions of themselves, about why the 18-certificated game was in the hands of young teenagers!

    Already, within 12 hours of the news story breaking, numerous stores including "DIxons", "PC World" and "Game", have removed the game from their shelves, and will no longer allow it to be sold.

    My first question, I would have to ask about this specific situation, is how did a 17-year old get hold of an 18-certificate computer game? Was it from a friend, or did he get it himself, or did his parents (or other relatives) buy it for him? If so, were they aware of what the game was? Did they know it was unsuitable for under-18's? Did they even take one look at the game itself, read the packaging, and get hold of reviews?

    The second question, I would ask, is what else has happened in Leblanc's life, that may have stimulated his need to kill? Was a violent individual anyway? Did he ever get into fights at school? How did he know Pakeerah, and was there any tension between the two of them? Was Leblanc brought up well? DId he hang around in a gang of somesort? Was he ever abused by anyone? What about bullying?

    All of these questions and situations really need to be asked and enquired about, before anyone can blame a computer game? Having lived through the "Video Nasties" scare of 1983/84; the Hungerford Massacre (in which the film "Rambo III" was blamed); the Bulger murder (in which "Child's Play III" was named as the problem, I don't understand why everyone feels the need to blame something like a book, a film or computer game for a senseless violent act, when they can't offer any legitimate evidence to support there claims.

    Films, books and computer games are designed to elicit emotions out of us. It doesn't matter if those emotions are laughs, tears of sadness, anger or violent thoughts. That is their point, as well as to entertain. On Channel Five news tonight (at 7pm), they asked the head of ELSPA (the computer games rating advisory board) if he thought that a game depicting rape would be acceptable. He wasn't given the chance to say "no", and was constantly pushed into a corner. He tried to state that it was society that dictates what type of material is released or desired, and not him or the game manufacturers themselves. They simply meet the demand.

    I have to agree with that. Any fad, trend or desire for a certain product, theme or subject, often leads to a whole host of companies jumping on the bandwagon, and supplying that need with their product. It doesn't matter if it's the desire for lighthearted, romantic TV shows and films, or the desire for products with a St George symbol on it, or a particular flavour of food. If society wants it, someone will meet the demand.

    With "Manhunt", I have only heard of the game and read about it, but I haven't played it. However, I think I am mature enough to know that although the game might revel in violence and violent actions, I appreciate the fact that ultimately, it's still a game. It doesn't mean that the game manufacturers are condoning the situations that the game allows you to participate in.

    So, do you feel that these type of 18-rated games should be banned? Do you think that certain topics should not be used for entertainment purposes, be it in games, books or films? And what about the right of adults to play, read and enjoy anything that they want to, without being nannied by the government or anyone else?

    Please feel free to comment below. I will be very interested in hearing anyone's views.

    Thanks, in advance.


    Pooch
     
  4. Garrett

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    I remember some years back when the small child was abducted buy two older children and killed, and there was a media uproar that Childs Play3 was to blame. I saw the film and nearly everything they connected to the film was out of context and could have been said the same if they had been watching The Ladykillers.

    How many violent deaths a year can be attributed to alcohol but that is not banned.

    Still waiting to hear from a player of the game, how violent is the violence in the game.

    Any views on having a age limit for games for over 18?
     
  5. Marc

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    that bloody bulger case meant i had to wait till a couple of years ago to get any of the child's play movies, which was really annoying as they're my favourite horror franchise besides Friday 13th. Apparently they were never actually banned, but just never got released to sale because of the negative publicity of the case. It's always something though, Mortal Kombat, GTA, now Manhunt. Next it'll be Doom 3 because the next gen graphics give a more realistic lifelike gameplaying experience, and it will make people think they're playing Doom 3 when they're out in public.. well i must admit, there are plenty of girls who look like hellbeasts when you're out on the town ;)
     
  6. gandley

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    violence is accepted in our culture as acceptable for all ages to tolerate. Hell life itself is violent. the fact that some individuals will gravitate and try to act out what they see is inevitable. But its so lame then to point a fingure at one thing and say "hey this here game/film caused this murder/abuse to happen".

    Children (and adults)on the whole are being desensitise to violence. Add to the fact that children are not disciplined properly or brought up with the proper mental regulating or the fact they dont feel they have to answer for there actions this for me is where the problems lies.
    We glorify violence without consequence, and there is an outcry when this bites us back.

    There is no one thing that causes this kind of action.
    but many.

    Personaly i do think this game was a game too far. plus it was rubbish anyway but violence sells right

    But games of an 18 rating should not be banned.
    ive always enjoyed playing doom/2 and 3 will be awesome.
    Will i kill sombody the next day? of course not.
    But then i was brought up by my parents with strong morals(not that i followed all of them but i was taught them..... :lesson: )

    I cant help thinking the real problem here is the breakdown of family life and maybe the slow decay of society or somthing.

    The real problem i guess this will not be the last of it, u only have to look down the street and see 6yr olds with there Slipknot and M Mansen tops on to see times ahead will only get worse.
     
  7. Azrikam

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    Games/movies/music/etc are easy targets. Instead of investigating the real issues, which would be uncomfortable and eye-opening, it's so much easier to just pinpoint a single cause that we can actually do something about. This is as much about lazy, sensationalist journalism as it is about censorship.

    I think it's sad that someone would actually believe that banning a game is all that it would take to stop kids doing terrible things. The world must be a much simpler place where they live.

    I was a heavy metal listener in the 80s when the furor erupted in the States (and to a lesser degree in Canada) over everything from the albums promoting suicide, to instructing kids on how to become satanists. My aunt destroyed all of my cousin's metal tapes and CDs in an effort to protect him from this evil music. Luckily, my mother has a mind of her own and dismissed it all as BS. (and rightly so) For the record, neither of us has become a satanist or committed suicide so far.

    I don't think increasing the age limit above 18 is a good idea. I mean, if someone is old enough to be sent to war, then they should be mature enough to handle a little pixellated blood.

    These kids were underage, and the person who sold them the game should be taken to task, as well as the parents who apparently took no interest in how they were spending their time.

    BTW, there's another topic about this in the console forum. Maybe some nice Mod would like to merge them? :)
     
  8. Garrett

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    Please don't some members do not have consoles or play games on the PC so don't visit both.
     
  9. j4y3m

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    People telling other people to not by a product will proably make people go out of their way to get their hands on it.

    I think anybody stupid enough to copy a game deserves to go to jail but I feel sorry for the victim.
     
  10. Garrett

    Garrett
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    I disagree look at the number of retards roaming round the towns at weekends popped up on alcohol just looking for trouble. I’m not saying you get some with older age groups but you get far less as they still mature.
     
  11. wizbongre

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    At the end of the day, being a sane, normal person I wouldn't go out and kill anyone. No matter how many distrubing games/dvd's/books/whatever I had viewed.

    Blaming the game is a joke - the person obviously had issues anyway, but as with most things in this joke country at the moment news/police/politicians will go for the easy target instead of looking at the underlying cause. And so many idiotic sheep in the public will believe everything they read in the paper.

    V. sad...
     
  12. Azrikam

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    Good point. Age is far too simple a system to actually gauge maturity. Just as there are 15 year-olds who are mature enough to drink, there are 30 year-olds who aren't. Same goes for driving, film ratings, etc. But until they discover the "maturity gene" and develop a quick roadside test for it, it's the only system we've got.

    I can see it now: middle-aged man gets pulled over driving a convertible way too fast. Cop tests him. "I'm sorry sir, you appear to be too immature to drive this car. Do you have a son or daughter who can come and drive you home?" ;)
     
  13. CrispyXUK

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    I do find that alot of violence, sex & language is now aimed at a very young market, pop music is a goods example of this ie; 50 cent, Eminem, Britney flashing her **** all over the show etc., and beleive this has created a culture where certain things will now be accepted, which just aint right to me.
     
  14. inzaman

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    I actually do have manhunt for the xbox, i have had this for several months now but have only played it a few times.
    With regards to the game itself, spoilers ahead all those who havent got it, you are basically a convict who has been saved from execution in prison by some mysterious bloke whos voice you hear but face you dont see. You have manhunters after you which you have to kill before they kill you, this is being filmed by the mysterious bloke, the action then zooms in when you get a kill, i.e you can sneak up to a manhunter and put a bag over his head to suffocate him, the camera then zooms in but it is kind a sketchy the way it zooms so is not overy gratuitous imo. It is more the atmosphere of the game that makes it what it is and the fact that you can lure the manhunters to their death by banging on walls and waiting for them to come over to you, i personally think gta is more violent as in that you can kill anyone you like and by pretty much any means, whereas in manhunt it is only the manhunters that are killed.

    As has been stated before this will probably now sell a lot more copies and it is not a great game, hence the only reason that i have played it a few times in several months.
     
  15. Ripco

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    Im a normal 27 year old who has played violent games and watched every horror movie possible, Clockwork Orange, Postal 2, Natural Born Killers, Manhunt and the chucky movies included. I have not killed anyone and dont intend to either. However if we are on the subject, I work a 9 to 5 job and I feel like killing everyone after a hard day.... Does that mean I should be banned from going to work? Hope so.. :laugh: :lease:
     
  16. lothburn

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    Hi,

    Reminds me of the drug scare tactics.
    young man on ACID, thinks he can fly
    jumps off roof......

    Computer games have always been an off topic in the main news
    just like the drug related scare tactics.

    You need to remind yourself, what you see in the papers or on the news is what thay want you to see. (Cant spell, product of a secondry school or 2nd rate education)

    Does the guy have a medical condition etc.. will this be printed!

    To be honest guy jumps off roof. fudge him, who cares he is an idiot (quote Bill Hicks) same with this guy.

    Ooh my little johnny (use any name) did sommet bad, parents run around like headless chickens, who or what shall we blame..

    Drugs, Films, Computer games, Music etc list goes on

    Rant over but it is always the same.
    Blame anything and everthing.
     
  17. Munkey Boy

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    lol :laugh:

    rant
    To be honest though, you've got a very good point. Its in certain peoples interest that specifics like games/drugs/tv are blamed for atrocities like this. It stops the masses realising that everyone gets pretty :censored: off at having to work 40 hours a week just to pay the bills or be the son/daughter of not very caring/nice parents.

    The way to fix that would be for everyone to be paid a fair wage and give people enough time off to care for their son/daughter. Something that those with the power to implement such changes will never let happen. They'll tell you its the evil computer games every time.
    /rant
     
  18. gandley

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    It stops the masses realising that everyone gets pretty off at having to work 40 hours a week just to pay the bills or be the son/daughter of not very caring/nice parents.



    To be honest m8 i think thats as close to the truth as it gets.
    These days both parents need to work so it down to uncle playstation and antie tv to bring the kids up.

    What we do have to concede is that our obvious acceptance of violence is not heathy. and that like it or not at times it is the trigger in a small number of cases. as we have seen.
    it realy is a bit L8 to blame anthing now.

    I blame central heating. Before that familys used to mix together in a warm room, now everyone has there own(come in here and i`ll kill u) space.
     
  19. Ripco

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    I blame central heating.

    Yeah and I blame the removal of window tax. If we still had no windows in our houses people wouldnt know there were other people out there to kill.

    I mean we are always focusing on the negatives of entertainment. Im sure there are alot of people who have done something good after viewing advertising etc.

    Also to quote Bill Hicks "If you work in Marketing or Advertising Kill yourself".

    Ripco.
     
  20. Azrikam

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    The solution: Unionise!

    Seriously, recent studies suggest that humans have more free time than ever in history. People are working less hours, have more labour/time-saving devices, and have a higher quality of life. But it certainly doesn't seem like that, does it? I guess our expectations rise as well.
     
  21. Munkey Boy

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    True, and I bet less people die due to brutal murders now than ever in history. The nature of media today just makes sure that everyone knows about every occurance, something that has never previously happened. It is just perception of crime that's increasing, not actually crime itself.

    I think my argument was just that people at the bottom work far harder for less money, so it descends into a vicious circle that passes on to the children. Its just a bit out of balance still, but getting better, generally. Which makes me wonder why every time it happens the media are even more enraged than the last time.
     
  22. Garrett

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    The media make mountains out of mole hills. I sure the deaths of children these days are not greater than say the 60’s but when there is one the media whips up a frenzy and frightens every parent. So they stop letting their child walk to school and take them in the car. Damaging the ecology and the health of the child but what the heck it sells more papers and makes good TV.

    I’m not saying the game may not have had some influence on the murder but the problem was there in the first place yet very little has been mentioned about it.

    The same happens when a dog attacks a child certain breads get targeted yet other do not, surprisingly one year I read the statistics of reported attacks by dogs to the police, and the Labrador was number one. Yet I never heard a witch hunt on them like they do on Rottweilers, Just because some journalist saw The Omen and cannot differentiate between films and real life.
    Dougal: small, far away, film, reality.
     
  23. gandley

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    Wholemeal?
     
  24. Ripco

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    If it wasnt for the film Mionority Report, we would still need pressure groups and parents etc. trying to ban our video games and movies. But thanks to the big Tom Cruise factory and the Movie Minority Report we can all sleep soundly knowing that killers shall be caught before they offend. Hmm isnt that the job of the judicial system to spot constant offenders who may then kill. I find it funny that the film Minority Report gives out the result of the killer on a ball, reminds me that you have about as much chance of me winning the lottery as you do predicting in a lifetime, who will kill and who wont. Its kind of like suicide we all have the ability but some of us just mentally and physically cant go through with it for various reasons. Harming yourself or others is not decided by whether on not the new batman movie sucks ass like the rest.

    Ripco.
     
  25. Ripco

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    Oh no Ive just offended maybe hoards of batman fans who now want to kill me over this. Damn I do blame the movies now, Lol. Reminds me of the last time in here I slagged someone for buying a Grease dvd, (Special edition no less). Oops.
     
  26. krusty

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    its because of THE MAIL that videos were persecuted in the early 80,s and the videonasty was born...............now they want 2 start there 20th anniversery witchhunt with videogames
     
  27. Azrikam

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  28. Garrett

    Garrett
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    So it looks like truth not getting in the way of a good story once again. :nono:
     

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