1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Mac vs PC, "again!"

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Editing Forum' started by Tunes Man, Nov 9, 2003.

  1. Tunes Man

    Tunes Man
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Okay it's time again for the old Mac vs PC debate. I've owned two pcs for quite awhile now, and I enjoy working with my pcs, but I just recently bought an Apple Power Mac G4, and I was just wondering how many of you folks out there have an opinion one way or the other for which type of computer. I'm not pro or con either way, I'm just trying to compile some information on Mac computers. They've been putting out some powerful computers on the market lately, and they seem to be holding their own.
    I've been hearing some more from people about how macs are much better for video editing than pcs, and I wonder how many of you agree with this opinion.
    So if anyone wants to throw their two cents worth in this debate, I'd be happy to hear from you.
    All replies are welcome.

    Tunes Man.
     
  2. vonhosen

    vonhosen
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,835
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +13
    Never had a Mac myself,
    Can't deny they look different (personally I quite like the look)
    Most of the time people backing their cause seem to be professionals in media (graphic design , audio & video editing), so they must do the job.

    Against though I would suspect is the choice available when it comes to hardware/software. It would seem you can customise your PC more for your needs.

    What the hell , have both :D
     
  3. Origin

    Origin
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mac's are certainly very good "media-machines", since that's the niche they're designed for. They make superb music and video production tools, since specific software is especially written for the Mac platform. Traditionally, Macs gave a better interface for less computer-literate people, but with the advent of Windows XP that gap hardly exists any more.

    As for the claims of speed, these are generally exaggerated and skewed to grab the headlines - something at which Apple excel at. They know they have to play against Windows/Intel, and since XP arrived, speed is now the only advantage they might have.... until a couple of months down the road when the next Intel/AMD processor turns up and it is much faster than any Mac, as is the case most for of the time.

    A few reasons why I would never buy a Mac are:

    * Because so few people use them (nobody I know!)
    * They are particularly bad value for money compared with PC's due to Apple's total control of their market.
    * If I need advice for a PC then it is plentiful and I know scores of other people who can help me, give me files, recommend applications etc., but if I bought a Mac I would be on my own.
    * I work in engineering and need to run all sorts of software - which naturally is all PC based. Nobody anywhere uses Macs to control any sort of industrial equipment, since their expense, relative lack of support, and incompatibility don't make commercial sense.

    On the other hand if you have money to burn, you know plenty of other Mac users, and don't mind being excluded from using 95% of the world's software, then why not?
     
  4. Duncan Craig

    Duncan Craig
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Messages:
    258
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    The Grim North
    Ratings:
    +17
    I would disagree with a number of things previously stated.

    Using Macs has always been easier, and they are not all that expensive when you consider that you are buying good quality components. I've loaned my 4 year old iMac to my inlaws because their year old PC always breaks down, and runs really slow.
    Serious programmers all prefer Unix, which Mac runs on now.
    Panther is a joy to use, and has sped up my 2 year old iBook hugely, my Dual2GHz G5 is stupid fast now.
    As regards advice and help, there are loads of great forums including Apples own site.
    Macs come with a range of free software for Music, Video Editing, DVD creation, Photo Library, Word Proccessing and painting, and they are all pretty good.

    Sure you can't use the free discs on the front of your PC Magazine, but mostly those things are total crap anyway. 95% of that software i miss out on is not worth bothering with ... ever. I'm able to get Mac versions of all the Software I need (for broadcast editing and design) Even Microsoft make Mac software and in some cases they say it's better on a Mac - Office for example.

    Just my opinion ;-)
     
  5. sdh500

    sdh500
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    plus, windows pcs get loads more viruses!
     
  6. JayX

    JayX
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2002
    Messages:
    339
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    29
    Location:
    c-town
    Ratings:
    +30
    Final Cut Pro versus a hardware based DVstorm2 box. its not even worth considering ;)

    would never own a mac. i like right clicking too much. it'd look nice in the lounge, but thats about it.

    and mac's don't get viruses because nobody who is capable of writing such code wouldn't own a mac ;)
     
  7. Origin

    Origin
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I will not get into a silly Mac/PC argument as we all know they're ultimately pointless, so this will be my last post on this topic. But Duncan's typical wishy-washy, out of date Mac propaganda is so laughable it forces me to reply...

    "Macs have always been easier to use"...
    ...should have said "were easier to use" (for technical incompetents) back in the days when they had the first primitive GUI and PC's were using DOS. But with XP, Windows has definitely caught up and Macs have now lost their most important advantage.

    "...and they are not all that expensive when you consider that you are buying good quality components."
    More Apple brainwashing! What components in a Mac are any better quality than a PC's components at the same price point? Most of the vital components such as power supply, PCI cards, hard disks and memory are exactly the same anyway!

    "Serious programmers all prefer Unix, which Mac runs on now."
    What utter rubbish! The vast proportion of the software industry works entirely in Visual C++ (running on PC's of course), with the less technically rigorous using Visual Basic. Unix and Macs form a very small niche of the software industry.

    People who like Macs buy Macs; people who like PCs buy PC's. There's little in it these days in terms of power or interface, so the argument is becoming ever more irrelevant. But as I said before, for someone working anywhere in the big wide world of engineering, Macs are utterly irrelevant. For someone working in the visual arts (and a tiny minority of home users) PCs are irrelevant. Your choice.
     
  8. tomson

    tomson
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2000
    Messages:
    1,918
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Berk'amsted
    Ratings:
    +187
    I regularly use both macs and pc for work (print/web/interactive design), have owned both but chose a mac as my main machine. As a non techie I want something that works out of the box and stays working - something I found didnt happen with any of my PCs. Its the platform I feel most comfortable with - But I know plenty of people who do the same job as me and use a PC, equally, I know hard core coders who use macs.

    I've never needed to get support so cant comment on Apples' support. Very rarely get cross-platform problems, have had maybe 4 crashes in the last 2 years (under osx), use a 2 button mouse (couldnt live without right click), dont have trouble opening PC file etc etc

    At the end of the day its just a tool - choose whatever you feel most suits your needs. If you dont like it you can always change.
     
  9. dejongj

    dejongj
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    28,487
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Beautiful South
    Ratings:
    +4,763
    My god what a bunch of general statements especially made by people who never owned one....

    Yes you can right click...
    Yes you can share documents with no problem with PC's
    Not at all bad value for money, perhaps if you believe the Ghz propaganda, but there are so many more computing architectures besides intels so you can't compare on that...
    There are lots of self-help groups on the Internet, plenty of resources to get assistance....
    They DO control essential manufacturing processes (at least the factories I worked in)
    They are certified by the FDA to perform clinical trials and control medical laboratory equipment
    They do have virusses as well....
    They have access to even more software resources than PC's...Heck most Unix/Linux software runs on it
    It runs Windows software if you really have this one specific application for which there is not a native Mac version. MS Project is a very good example and I can even copy and paste between the native applications (You can't do this at all the otherway around)
    They can be networked and integrated very easily; used and supported them in combinations with PC's, SGI IRIX, Solaris, Cray, AS/400, OS/360, IBM VM, Dec VMS and hapily sharing and running multiple network protocols...
    You can 'upgrade' them with standard components like IDE drives, CD-ROMS, DVD's, memory etc...Heck if you really wanted to (don't know why) you can even install PC marketed graphic cards in them.
    There is even a large MOD scene if that is your interest, but why would you want to change such a nice design...

    Please guys, if you haven't used them don't repeat silly generalist myths...You really loose some credibility...
     
  10. sdh500

    sdh500
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Steady J-P. In your eagerness to put everybody down on this thread, you're actually criticising statements that haven't even been made. Please re=read them. (For one thing, noone said that Macs don't have viruses). There is a staggering level of conceit in your last statement, which doesn't exactly add to your own credibility.
     
  11. Tunes Man

    Tunes Man
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I think I'll throw my two cents in on this and then be done with it. Evidently, there are high passions on both sides of the fence as far as macs and pcs. I realize there are advantages to both types of machines, and as I stated in my original question, I'm not pro or con either way. If one type of computer works for me in one application, I'll use it. If the other works for a different application, I'll use it. Sure, the pc has lots of advantages over the mac, it just hasn't been working for me with video editing. I'm not saying that macs are better than the pc or the pc is better than the mac, they're just different machines, that's all. I think that the pc is a great machine. It can do a lot of things for me and I constantly use it. I'm just getting into learning how to work my Power Mac G4, and if it works for me with video editing better than my pcs, then that's what I'll use it for. I'm basically going to use it as a stand alone machine for that purpose. It's my opinion that getting on the internet and having downloaded many software programs for this and that have caused my video editing software on my pcs to not work at 100% efficiency. This is just my opinion.
    As far as the mac pc debate, I'll let everybody else argue it out, but thanks for all the replies.

    Tunes Man.
     
  12. dejongj

    dejongj
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    28,487
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Beautiful South
    Ratings:
    +4,763
    I know that noone said that Macs don't have viruses, that is exactly why I stated that they do.
    One of the points I was making is that the myths are on both sides, not just with PC users.

    I would like to be educated how conceit can lead to a lack of credibility. It is perhaps not nice, fair enough I admit to that. People express their opinions and I express mine. However when some people who have never used an item, and some state they will never use it, and this is based upon total misunderstandings or hearsay I think it is quite pathetic. Especially when others look at these boards to be educated. So it is better expressing concerns, and thus leaving the door open to be educated instead of relaying myths as facts.

    Just as pathetic as me calling it pathetic :D
     
  13. sdh500

    sdh500
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Fair enough! :smashin:
     
  14. Duncan Craig

    Duncan Craig
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Messages:
    258
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    The Grim North
    Ratings:
    +17
    TunesMan - I was pleased to see you had got a Mac, especially after asking here what people recommended. I've just written loads more in here and deleted it cos I can't be bothered, anyway hope you saw my link to 2-pop.com, and post any questions here too if we can help. P.S. does compressor get bundled with FCE? What are you doing about the hard drive?
     
  15. Tunes Man

    Tunes Man
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Duncan, thanks for the encouraging words about the mac. I haven't gotten on your link yet to the 2-pop.com, but will soon. I haven't downloaded Final Cut Express yet in my mac because I've been practicing with the iMovie software that came with the computer. I do plan to install it soon though. From what I hear, FCE is supposed to be quite a fancy video editing software, and I'm anxious to use it.
    I have installed a 120 gig secondary hard drive in my mac and when I download any videos to edit, I put it on that drive. I am pleased to say that on my first test attempts at video editing on my new mac, the finished video came out smooth with no frame drop outs whatsoever, something that I have not been able to achieve with my pcs. Again I emphasize that this doesn't mean I prefer mac over pc, it just means the mac is better suited for that purpose.
    By the way, how do you like your G5?

    Tunes Man.
     
  16. Duncan Craig

    Duncan Craig
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Messages:
    258
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    The Grim North
    Ratings:
    +17
  17. ancientgeek

    ancientgeek
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Just came across this discussion. Being an ancient geek, I have used and programmed all sorts for many years but use Mac by preference. Here's my take on the various elements; these are just opinions:

    speed: they are remarkably close in speed; I prefer to think of it in terms of how many months ahead/behind the speed leader on the MS side is compared to the Mac side. At this instant they're about equal. Looks like Mac may pull ahead 3-4 months over the next year; at its worst, Mac was maybe twelve months behind. Personally, I always buy machines below the performance peak because they deliver the best value, and the extra cost only buys 3 months bragging before a faster model comes out.

    security, viruses and vulnerabilities: MS partly obtained and maintains its monopoly by an explicit embrace-extend-smother approach to standards and competitors. This is what lead to the dreadful susceptibility to viruses and attacks. I last had a Mac virus in 1988. I have never used anti-virus software. Microsoft's promiscuous and manipulative attitude is what makes it vulneralbe, and is monopoly compounds the problem.

    cost: I am not that fussed about cost; I find it extraordinary to be obsessed with 10% cost difference of a PC, then spend 25 grand on a car instead of 8, with only marginal impact on journey time and comfort. In fact any detailed price comparison between Apple and leading Wintel builders (Dell. HP etc) generally shows prices matching very closely. The difference is that things come standard on a Mac. One small example: Apple laptops all have 6-pin firewire; Wintel laptops never do. 6-pin offers fairly substantial power so you can justs plug in hard disks, ipods or whatever. It probably costs four times as much to a put a six pin connector on because of this, but it's worth it. Finally, Mac users seem to keep their machines much longer; they are a joy to use, even when they are five years old and a fraction of the speed of current hardware.

    Support: Macs require extraordinarily little technical support. Apple has always focussed on the empowering the individual user, whereas Microsoft have focussed on tying up institutions and companies. Where there were mixed networks, what always happened is that Mac IT staff were outnumbered by MS IT staff, even when Macs outnumber Wintel, then the Mac support staff get eliminated completely, then the Wintel support staff get the organisation to eliminate Macs. Put simply, Wintel gives IT suport a career and power, Macs just work.

    Morality: make no mistake, our culture is deeply entwined with the internet and with computer generated and processed documents. I find it deeply troubling when the individual has to buy and renew licences from a monopoly commercial organisation (Microsoft) in order to take part in his culture. It is equivalent to having to pay a licence to speak or write english. Therefore I believe there is a moral imperative to use open standards in communications.

    Most people don't realise that Linux is simply a Unix operating system kernel. What people think of as Linux is a huge collection of open-source software put together to make what we think of as an operating system, with little Linux at the bottom. Mac OS likewise has an open source OS kernel (Darwin). You can run almost all the Linux stuff on top of it, and you also have Apple's beautiful proprietary stuff.

    Linux isn't going away; MS are doing their damnedest to leverage their monopoly across into DRM media distibution and services. You owee it to mankind to resist!

    And Safari is easily the nicest browser out there.

    But I concede the battle was lost years ago.
     
  18. dejongj

    dejongj
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    28,487
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Beautiful South
    Ratings:
    +4,763
    You said it Ancient! I can only echo that.
     
  19. Tunes Man

    Tunes Man
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ancient, thanks for your comments. What you said makes me feel like my investment was worth it for my Mac G4. It's evident that both pcs and macs have advantages and disadvantages in different areas. I as you know, own both types now, and I can only say that because of this I can enjoy the best of both, at least until they become obsolete! If the mac computers work as good as you say they do and for many years where as the pc will have problems down the line, then maybe I'll have a good back up when my pcs do break down, as they do from time to time.
    As I said earlier, I'll probably only be using my mac for video editing, since I'm dissappointed with my pcs in that area, at least for now. I'm sure I'll be using the mac for different applications eventually, when I get to learn more about it.
    As you know, there are many people out there who would disagree with your statement that macs have more power than pcs, and vise-versa, but there again, if macs work better in some areas than pcs, why not use them? Just because I own a pc doesn't mean that it's going to have my unbending loyalty the rest of my life. If a different type of machine works better for this application or that, why not use it?
    I'll keep using both and enjoy both.
    Thanks again.

    Tunes Man.
     

Share This Page

Loading...