Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 Stereo Amplifier Review & Comments

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by Phil Hinton, Jun 1, 2017.


    1. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
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    2. Barcoing Mad

      Barcoing Mad
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      Is the EQ carried out in the time domain or is it a frequency domain correction technique?
       
    3. markymiles

      markymiles
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      Just a point of clarification, you don't need to beg a dealer to have access to Dirac, it comes as part of the package with the Arcams.
       
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    4. AudioVisualOnline

      AudioVisualOnline
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      Just as an FYI on the stated pricing in the review. The base price is £2800 and we have the modules on at £350 individually. They're available to view via the links below, and we also have the unit with the matching amplifier on permanent demo running a pair of Monitor Audio PL500 floor standing speakers -

      Base model
      Fully loaded version
       
    5. AudioVisualOnline

      AudioVisualOnline
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      I believe both but Lyngdorfs own speakers are all designed to work placed right against the walls to ensure the best possible in room time response. There is some info on room perfect on Lyngdorfs own site here -

      RoomPerfect™
       
    6. richardsim7

      richardsim7
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      :confused: There's nothing stopping anyone downloading and running the Dirac calibration software themselves
       
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    7. Phil Hinton

      Phil Hinton
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      I was under the impression it was dealer only installation on the Arcam products. I'll remove that from the review, thanks.
       
    8. pressure

      pressure
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      Dirac really is not very hard to set up. It sounds very similar to the process used for RP. Plug mic into laptop, plug laptop into Dirac box, run software, follow instructions. Even easier for arcam owners. It is not in the same class as Audyssey - it is vastly more effective and transparent. Also it is not merely an eq - it does time domain correction too. Yes, acoustic panels and bass traps are *always* better to have - I love my big soffit trap - but we can't always get them up on the walls.

      Having said that, it is wonderful to read a review of this amp and Room Perfect. A fabulous amp and a really special, innovative eq system. I'd love to read a review of their surround sound processor.
       
    9. mainaman

      mainaman
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      Thanks for the review.The price aint too bad,compared to,say,a Devialet 220.Does it sound as good,i dont know.

      I suspect that the slightly "clinical" sound could disappear with more "hi-fi" speakers and a better front end(audiophile music server,USB isolator and high-quality DDC) than the Macbook Pro,even with a relatively inexpensive turntable.
       
    10. richardsim7

      richardsim7
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      Fook me, that makes the Lyngdorf look cheap :eek:
       
    11. RBZ5416

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      No laptop required for RP as the software is fully self contained within the Lyngdorf. You also have access to different room curves with RP from a single measurement. Rather than rerun the software, tweak the curve, save the curve, process the curve, load the curve & then be unable to compare to the previous curve as there's only space for a single EQ filter.

      Where the Lyngdorf seems to have the edge over the SR250 for me is they started out with a stereo amp & made it AV friendly. Arcam took the reverse path of taking an AV amp & simply stripping out the extra channels. Consequently the Lyndorf is fully configurable from it's own display whereas the Arcam needs a TV on to change anything.

      So I'd say that the premise in the review of this being aimed at multichannel down-sizers would probably better reflect the SR250. The Lyngdorf seems more aimed at users like me that just wanted stereo with room correction. I regret being talked out of the Lyngdorf in favour of the Arcam by a dealer, but I also have to accept responsibility for not substantiating his claims for myself before buying.

      I think it's also a shame that the Lyngdorf was reviewed in a treated room. I'd have been much more interested in how it performed in a typical living room with a pair of stereo speakers (no sub) commensurate with the price of the amp.
       
    12. AudioVisualOnline

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      FWIW, our Hi-Fi room is far from being a perfect treated room, but then this is partly intentional, and partly the by product of a room that has to display a lot of products. The good thing is that it makes the difference RP makes really easy to demonstrate, and its also good for working out if you like what RP does and how the Lyngdorf sounds when compared to a more traditional amplifier. We have side by side listening capability, so we can demonstrate a number of speakers, and within a few seconds switch from Lyngdorf to something like Roksan etc.
       
    13. DougAP

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      Just out of curiosity I'd like to find out more about RP.

      I haven't been able to find anything that indicates RP corrects in the time domain. My understanding (although I may be/probably am mistaken) is that the rationale of putting speakers against the wall is that this addresses impulse response by positioning relying on RP to correct in the frequency domain, and reducing the load on the amplifier presumably due to flattening of boundary gain. The attached (which is a few years old, so may be out of date) says:

      If you place the loudspeaker close to the back wall the bass reflections from the wall and the direct sound will arrive simultaneously at the listening position – i.e. the impulse response in the bass region can be improved considerably and RoomPerfect™ can easily compensate for the uneven frequency response as a consequence of the placement. So, with RoomPerfect™, it can actually be an advantage to choose what’s normally regarded as a less ideal ‘close wall‘ loudspeaker placement as this will not only improve the impulse response. Also, when compensating for the increased efficiency, the load on both amplifier and loudspeaker is decreased whereby less distortion and better headroom is achieved.​
       

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    14. AudioVisualOnline

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      If you look at everything Lyngdorf design and are involved with, even up to some of the Steinway Lyngdorf stuff, they design a system to first time as accurately as possible, this is their priority. The reason for this is that time related problems are much more difficult to address than frequency related ones. The drivers in their speakers are primarily designed to be accurate, that is to track the incoming signal accurately for example.

      Once in room, placing the speaker against the wall, and this applies to home cinema installations where the speakers used are in wall versions, improves the time response as it reduces acoustical time related problems associated with rooms. Bass response is improved because you get more boundary gain as a function of direct and reflected bass waves arriving at the listening position together (reflected waves are reduced as well, so potential cancellations are reduced), and boosting each other rather than cancelling, and this has the side effect of improving the speakers low frequency response, and reducing amplifier load, and thus possible amplifier distortion products. In the higher frequencies youre reducing room echo, which is a big factor in listening fatigue.

      Mechanically addressing these issues in this way means your having to apply less eq which in theory is better as processing can add in artefacts absent from the original recording. Then augmenting the frequency response is fairly simple by comparison. I believe RP does also work in the time domain, but I cant recall where Ive got that information from so I will have to try and track this information down. Alternatively, there is a contact page on the Lyngdorf website which may be of use and the best way to get specific answers.
       
      Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
    15. Rob Sinden

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      Phil - Thanks for the terrific Review of the TDAi2170, I knew you’d like it.

      There are a couple of things that are very different about RoomPerfect from any other room correction systems that the review didn’t cover that I think are worth noting:

      1. The first measurement you take with RoomPerfect is with the microphone firing directly towards the speakers. This produces a “Focus” measurement that is predominantly from the speakers and that tells the system how they sound with as little influence of the room as possible. Without knowing this critical information, it is impossible for any system to know what the system should be trying to achieve. RoomPerfect is trying to maintain and optimize the sound of your speakers. Other systems don’t know this information so will change the sound of the speakers to meet the sound that Audyssey or Dirac thinks your system should sound like. While other systems will improve overall sound quality, they will change the sound of your speaker system which presumably you bought because you liked.

      2. All the other measurements in the room are regarded as “Room Measurements” and should be taken randomly throughout the full height, width and length of the room with the microphone firing in random directions. RoomPerfect is unique in this and do it to build up a three-dimensional understanding of the whole room rather than just across the seating positions. This information is critical to achieving the most accurate and consistent results.

      3. With both sets of information RoomPerfect can analyze what the speakers produce and how the sound of the whole room is compromising them. This can’t be achieved by other systems that only take combined room/speaker measurement solely across the seating positions.

      4. RoomPerfect is also unique (I believe) in measuring and correcting the speakers and subwoofers as one. While other systems measure and correct speakers and subwoofers, this doesn’t provide the same caliber of integration as RoomPerfect. One of the most common complaints with subwoofers is they don’t perfectly integrate with the rest of system and this is what RoomPerfect achieves.

      When RoomPerfect is run and you have the highest Room Knowledge reading possible, because the whole room has been measured, the consistency of the sound throughout the room and even in adjoing rooms is exceptional.

      I’ve used RoomPerfect in hundreds of very diverse rooms including gardens, and huge industrial units and the quality and consistency it provides only becomes clear when you have tried it in many, diverse different spaces.

      We regularly have events at locations where the systems must be set up quickly and sound at their best and RoomPerfect is the only tool I’m aware of that achieves this.

      Phil – I really hope you can keep the TDA and try it in as diverse range of rooms as possible so you can start to hear the unique consistency RoomPerfect provides. It really is very different to other room correction systems.

      Rob
       
    16. Rock Danger

      Rock Danger
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      I use Room perfect in a full Atmos system with the Lyngdorf MP-50 processor and after having had a fair few bits of kit in here one thing that stood out was the improvement it makes to music. Like Phil, I'm using MK 300 series at the front and with voicing and curve control you can make not so great/busy recordings a bit more easy to digest.

      There almost seems to be an endless volume level on tap with little clipping - sure it's not a TDAI but there are a few similar traits. If you like stereo and AV this would be the thing to have.
       
    17. lmccauley

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      This would be the perfect product for me. I've gradually reduced my Arcam Alpha 10 DAVE 5.1 system down to 2.1, and have been looking out for something with good quality room correction, and HDMI connections that can still drive my 4 ohm speakers. Sadly, I don't have the same disposable income I had when I bought the Arcam, so I suspect I will just having to read reviews, and sigh wistfully... :)
       
    18. Rob Sinden

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      You might consider a second hand TDAi2200 with RoomPerfect.

      The quality and the power of these amps are very different to the Arcam and are perfect for speakers that are difficult to drive.
       
    19. rallye666

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      Anyone looking for a similar product on a budget should look at the NAD C390DD.
      Room correction is a long way off what the Lyngdorf can do, but the amp technology is similar I believe. Plus the add on streaming module means no messing around with laptops
       
    20. Barcoing Mad

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      Thanks. Unfortunately, they don't answer the question - but it looks like a frequency domain treatment (as opposed to the Dirac approach, for example).
       
    21. drykloke

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      I have both the NAD and the Lyngdorf and the sound quality of the NAD is nowhere near the Lyngdorf, even without Room Correction turned on. The NAD is good, but Lyngdorf a whole class better.
       
    22. Paul7777x

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      I now long for £2800 so I can pair this monster of fabulousness with my Trios and an BK400 sub.
       
    23. fyonn

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      Sorry if I'm coming in late on the discussion here (only saw this article via the newsletter). There's a key bit of info that the article didn't cover, especially if the device is intended to be used with a TV as well as just for audio.

      Does it support HDMI-CEC and ARC? if it came on automatically and set it's input correctly when you turned on your TV, that would be excellent.
       
    24. fyonn

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      I'll answer my own question I guess. Apparently the lyngdorf does support CEC and ARC.

      4K HDMI® upgrade module
       
    25. indus

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      Bit of a thread resurrection.

      I have a Lyngdorf RP and a dirac 88a. The former is used in one room for 2ch and the 88a in my HT room.

      I once rigged the dirac up to my 2ch system for a quick test.

      In my room and to my ears the Lyngdorf did a much better job
       
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