Lyngdorf discussion

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If I do a factory reset, is the room perfect settings and measurements stored in the backup? All other settings?
Yes all settings are saved with back a back up.
 

StephanG

Active Member
Do you believe that most regular rooms need a lot of treatment? Will people generally need a lot of panels, some bass traps etc? This goes against the Lyngdorf approach. Do you disagree with that?
It really depends on the room, I'd say that almost every room needs bass traps, but that also depends on the size of the room. This seems to be less of a problem for you guys in the UK, because most of your rooms are so tiny to begin with (I'm not sure if it's a good or bad thing). I remember years ago a friend in the UK switched around rooms to get the system into the biggest room in the house and it turned out to be a 4x4m room. But back on topic, putting panels everywhere DIY style is not the solution, as it can do more harm than good. Usually an acoustic engineer is doing it after running full room simulations. And at the end of the build phase treatments are put in. That makes it hard to do comparisons, as the only time to do it is just before the installation and after. You can't A/B demo it.

That said, for the rooms I've heard this way, I've always found the treated room to sound better than room correction only, if the treatment was done properly and that includes Lyngdorf. I think the Lyngdorf approach is from the old TacT days, when they tried to convince people not to put the money into treatment, but rather their (expensive) processors instead. I also find it somewhat odd that only Peter Lyngdorf himself is pushing for not treating rooms, while the rest of his crew and distributors/dealers are recommending treatments. At shows like Cedia, whenever Peter Lyngdorf is around, the rooms are not treated and people are told that treatment is not necessary. Whenever he's not at the shows, the rooms are treated and staff recommends to have basic room treatments. The treated rooms are also the ones sounding better, but that might be flawed because it's usually a different room and judgement is by memory. The Steinway showroom in NYC (not sure if they still have it) is also using room treatment. A while ago I had a Steinway system at home for demo and was also told in order to get the best out of it, room treatment is necessary.

So that's what I'm going with and I've met a lot of people that think the same way after doing both. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't be happy with an untreated room. If you're using an untreated room and running room correction brings you to the point where you're happy with the result, that's all that matters.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
If I do a factory reset, is the room perfect settings and measurements stored in the backup? All other settings?
Yes, but don't use the back up until you get basic sound in case you're loading something corrupted - Let it start vanilla - you eliminate everything but hard ware and if toslink works then it sounds like the HDMI board.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
@StephanG Interesting. When you say his crew, do you mean other Lyngdorf employees? Or do you mean retailers / distributors selling room treatment alongside.. well every system, because that would make more sense if that's the case.
 
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StephanG

Active Member
@Rock Danger I'd say both. Part of the people running the booth shows are always employees while others are from other companies. Since Lyngdorf only provides audio components there's always a team up unless the demo is audio only. I assume that Steinway Lyngdorf in the US is the same company as in Denmark, so that would be employees then I guess unless they share the same name but are different companies. In any case, back in the day they represented Steinway Lyngdorf in the US. There have been discussions about this from what I remember in the other forum and it's been discussed several times during the usual dinner meetings we had when visiting these shows. Not sure what the current situation is as my days of attending every show whenever possible are over. This is a hobby for me after all, not a job and we're all not getting any younger. Some Steinway dealers also say that treatment isn't needed for most rooms, so there certainly seems to be no clear statement from this on the SL side. If I'd build systems not needing any treatment, I'd want every single employee, distributor and dealer to say the same thing, because otherwise they wouldn't be a selling the systems. :D
 

Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
We have been to numerous shows where SL has been demonstrated by SL. Whether Peter has been there or not, the rooms have always been untreated. I have had in depth discussions with numerous SL engineers in person and they do not recommend room treatment unless there is a huge issue then some treatment can be applied to the ceiling.

We design and build cinemas using both SL and Lyngdorf. We have demo rooms with both SL and Lyngdorf. We don’t install room treatment other than some to the ceiling if required. We are also a specialist acoustic treatment company with a client list from Royalty to the British Film Institute.
 

StephanG

Active Member
Good thing you're sticking to it then, whether it's the best option or not doesn't matter. If it's a company policy, everyone should follow it, employee, distributor or dealer.
Not everyone does though, as people have experienced the same as myself. First google hit: Steinway Lyngdorf LS Series or Datasat/Trinnov + Wisdom - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

I didn't compare treated vs untreated rooms when I had the SL system at home, neither was I interested in it. The room stayed the same, I was only interested in comparison between two systems. One thing at a time. :D
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
@Rock Danger I'd say both. Part of the people running the booth shows are always employees while others are from other companies. Since Lyngdorf only provides audio components there's always a team up unless the demo is audio only. I assume that Steinway Lyngdorf in the US is the same company as in Denmark, so that would be employees then I guess unless they share the same name but are different companies. In any case, back in the day they represented Steinway Lyngdorf in the US. There have been discussions about this from what I remember in the other forum and it's been discussed several times during the usual dinner meetings we had when visiting these shows. Not sure what the current situation is as my days of attending every show whenever possible are over. This is a hobby for me after all, not a job and we're all not getting any younger. Some Steinway dealers also say that treatment isn't needed for most rooms, so there certainly seems to be no clear statement from this on the SL side. If I'd build systems not needing any treatment, I'd want every single employee, distributor and dealer to say the same thing, because otherwise they wouldn't be a selling the systems. :D

That does seem a bit weird. The first Steinway show demo I heard was all employee run in a massive room which was coincidentally in 2015 and it was awesome. It made the Arcam / KEF demo next door sound like an anaemic car radio - don't get me started on that tho.

I've only ever heard Peter mention diffusion at the back and to paraphrase, with regular furniture treatment shouldn't be needed. I don't find it unusual that people providing perhaps the vision side of it might have differing opinions, or dealers in fact - I'm not sure why they couldn't sell you SL gear and all the room treatment you want??

Still my fave systems so far, there are a few others I like however.

Tiny rooms... how very dare you. At least we can make furniture! Never could understand that the whole time I lived there, is McIntosh involved somehow?
 

superflyhifi

Standard Member
Yes, but don't use the back up until you get basic sound in case you're loading something corrupted - Let it start vanilla - you eliminate everything but hard ware and if toslink works then it sounds like the HDMI board.
I changed HDMI cable one more time and now everything seems to work, sound at startup...strange...thx for the help!
 

hestepare

Member
I distinctly remember that either the SL or Lyngdorf blurb said that with room perfect, there was no need for "extensive acoustic treatment", implying that there could be a need for something less that extensive treatment.

I can't find that now, though.
 

icopalermo

Member
@StephanG Interesting. When you say his crew, do you mean other Lyngdorf employees? Or do you mean retailers / distributors selling room treatment alongside.. well every system, because that would make more sense if that's the case.
On my TDAI-2175 manual page 9 it is written:
"Tip: You can reduce reflections from the hard floors and hard surface walls by positioning a carpet,
painting, a book shelf, or other furnishings between you and the speakers. These objects act as diffusers.
Find the position of the diffusers by having someone hold a mirror flat against the wall or fl oor. When you can see the speaker in the mirror from the listening position, you have found the optimal position for the diffuser
."

Maybe Lyngdorf doesn't recommand heavy treatment (such as panels, diffusors, bass traps)
Is putting a carpet considered as "treatment" ? For some yes, for an audio engineer I don't think so.

I would be curious to test Room Perfect in a large room with tiles and no furniture. I Wonder if it would sound close to my room.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
I changed HDMI cable one more time and now everything seems to work, sound at startup...strange...thx for the help!
Regular hdmi board or upgraded one? I was surprised to find one bad cable in my MP60 that altho working, when the input was selected every input selected after that would be dead including the previous one until the cable Tv box was power cycled and then it all became ok again until that box was selected again.

Needless to say I near went insane, threw out all my janky HDMI cables that have been lying around forever, cut the bad one in pieces (after 2 days of troubleshooting man rage) and replaced them all with Monoprice certified cables - think they were £3-ish a pop.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
On my TDAI-2175 manual page 9 it is written:
"Tip: You can reduce reflections from the hard floors and hard surface walls by positioning a carpet,
painting, a book shelf, or other furnishings between you and the speakers. These objects act as diffusers.
Find the position of the diffusers by having someone hold a mirror flat against the wall or fl oor. When you can see the speaker in the mirror from the listening position, you have found the optimal position for the diffuser
."

Maybe Lyngdorf doesn't recommand heavy treatment (such as panels, diffusors, bass traps)
Is putting a carpet considered as "treatment" ? For some yes, for an audio engineer I don't think so.

I would be curious to test Room Perfect in a large room with tiles and no furniture. I Wonder if it would sound close to my room.
I've always heard you can use some diffusion, but don't have to start gluing the bed mattress to your ceiling.

Yes, carpet is room treatment as is a sofa, curtains or anything else squishy. People using TDA's in conservatory's for example seem quite pleased.

I understand heavy room treatment and why it's so popular in the US - if you make a dead room, you can have mega subs and big horn loaded speakers and get a big IMAX theatre sound (for a whole 2 mins before your ears shut down) and not sheer your head right off with the high end - the trade off being you loose some of the nuance which the beard stroking EU fellas tend to gravitate towards.
 

superflyhifi

Standard Member
Regular hdmi board or upgraded one? I was surprised to find one bad cable in my MP60 that altho working, when the input was selected every input selected after that would be dead including the previous one until the cable Tv box was power cycled and then it all became ok again until that box was selected again.

Needless to say I near went insane, threw out all my janky HDMI cables that have been lying around forever, cut the bad one in pieces (after 2 days of troubleshooting man rage) and replaced them all with Monoprice certified cables - think they were £3-ish a pop.
Regular hdmi board.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member

orange55

Well-known Member

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Never a truer word spoken!!
The ultimate irony being that because it's probably made very well it wouldn't have been a problem.

Mind you it would have cost more than the MP50.. and then you'd have to live with the shame that you bought an RA product and altho you'd defend that purchase to your mates, you secretly cry in the shower about it.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
The double irony is that RA can't guarantee more than 10.2gbps on their cables.

Triple irony! the standard MP50 board can't exceed that...

*Looks down on peasants from his 18gbps tower*
 

orange55

Well-known Member
The ultimate irony being that because it's probably made very well it wouldn't have been a problem.

Mind you it would have cost more than the MP50.. and then you'd have to live with the shame that you bought an RA product and altho you'd defend that purchase to your mates, you secretly cry in the shower about it.
I have only had one HDMI cable issue. Our mutual friend gave me one to use with my MP-50 home demo. Shortly after that he changed supplier, but not to Russ Andrews. 😉

Happy to admit I am a Chord Company loyalist ( although some might say investor rather than customer 😂) and never had an issue to date.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Well, this won't escalate quickly... hmmm i wonder if Tesco is out of kindling....?
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Does the MP-60 have an OSD like the MP-50?
No. No hdmi 2.0b processor does. Something to do with Dolby vision and the osd being an issue afaik.
 

nkatz

Active Member
On my TDAI-2175 manual page 9 it is written:
"Tip: You can reduce reflections from the hard floors and hard surface walls by positioning a carpet,
painting, a book shelf, or other furnishings between you and the speakers. These objects act as diffusers.

Those are absorbers, not diffusers (except at ultrasonic frequency).
 

nkatz

Active Member
The biggest problems that rooms create are in the home are in the bass frequencies and no amount of treatment or trapping can correct this.

That's only partially true.

It's true you can't do much about the lowest frequencies, but bass traps can greatly reduce mid/upper bass modes.
 
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