Lyngdorf discussion

I have been watching reviews about Buchardt S400 and interested to buy it. How will be synergy with TDAI 2170. Will the power of the amp enough to drive speakers. currently I am using Dali Zensor 3 with SVS SB 2000 sub. Will there be any substantial improvement in the sound quality if I buy the S400.
 
1/3-oct smoothing will make the responses appear much better than they are by squashing peaks and filling in troughs.


Psychoacoustic smoothing uses 1/3 octave below 100Hz, 1/6 octave above 1 kHz and varies from 1/3 octave to 1/6 octave between 100 Hz and 1 kHz. It also applies more weighting to peaks by using a cubic mean (cube root of the average of the cubed values) to produce a plot that more closely corresponds to the perceived frequency response
 
averaging main channels is not so useful, if you have a before and after handy for one channel alone then that would be interesting.
Sorry there is no before. It was an empty room, @Seriously Ltd came along and filled it with a cinema system and I was left with that graph posted.

Key thing was it sounded the same in my room as the couple of demo rooms I heard it in. In fact I actually prefer the sound of my room as it is slightly smaller and gives a more intimate sound. Dare I say, a more control room type sound, which brings me joy. 😀😀😀
 
1/3-oct smoothing will make the responses appear much better than they are by squashing peaks and filling in troughs.
Yes but more inline with the human hearing, which is the ultimate barometer.
 
1/3-oct smoothing will make the responses appear much better than they are by squashing peaks and filling in troughs.
That's true. As I said in a previous post, by design RP does not even try to make it super flat/smooth - as it uses a smoothed filter target and the room measurements as gain limiters on the filters. And I think that is a very good idea actually. Those "microcorrections" would only make it look flat within a few tiny cm from the MLP anyway.. I've compared with for example Audiolense where you set all kinds of options on filter length/resolution and of course it is possible to correct more than what RP does. Dirac does too.. But does it sound better?
BTW, I like the psychoacoustic smoothing as it shows the "audible effects" pretty well, you cannot hear those narrow peaks and dips anyway and it makes it easier to compare graphs. Anyway, here is how my left channel looks like, both raw and psychoacoustic smoothing overlayed:
1582307883768.png


But sure I will take the hint and listen to some music now (well I already do) :cool:
 
averaging main channels is not so useful, if you have a before and after handy for one channel alone then that would be interesting to see
Well I said I would not post any more graphs, but since you insist! :)
Here is a "before and after". This is actually with different speakers and positioning than in the previously posted graph, so they cannot be compared directly. But you can see that they are taken in the same room (same "room signature":). This is left channel, 100Hz crossover, no smoothing. As you can see, pretty significant improvements!
Edit: Also note that RP did not try to fill in the dip at my 42Hz node (which is good), but fixed the rest ;-)
1582310787928.png

PS: I always also measure L+R. I do think that is very useful to ensure that you do not have major phase issues between channels, especially below 80Hz or so where most recordings are mono.
 
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I have been watching reviews about Buchardt S400 and interested to buy it. How will be synergy with TDAI 2170. Will the power of the amp enough to drive speakers. currently I am using Dali Zensor 3 with SVS SB 2000 sub. Will there be any substantial improvement in the sound quality if I buy the S400.

You’ll be fine!

the S400s are rated to 4 ohms and 88 dB sensitivity and Buchardt suggest you use an amp up to 200 watts. The 2170 provides 170 watts into 4 ohms. With 6 dB headroom in reserve, you can play at 94 dB at 3 meters continuously!
 
You’re exactly correct. I play a lot of multichannel SACD and Blu-ray audio discs thst support PCM multichannel. Previously I listened to SACD primarily in DSD thanks to the support provided by Krell, NOT offered by Lyngdorf as we know. This is such a great lesson in how powerful one’s predetermined expectation can alter perception. That web interface glitch messed with my listening! I’m completely satisfied now that my unit is outputting uncompressed audio. I’m fine with PCM as regards SACD. DSD a little mellower and more analogue like. Splitting hairs, though, I believe. I have my OPPO is set up properly I believe and it sounds great, though in a tug of war with the Krell I think here Krell has an edge only bc of its support for DSD. But all that said, this is a superb unit and it’s incredibly efficient. seems to deliver a LOT more gain on the output stage than what I’d been accustomed to. Power utilization to achieve same relative DB is about 34% relative to the Foundation at 70%. Interesting. The only weakness so far IMHO is the lack of analogue which is ”forcing“ me into the purchase of a stereo preamp do I may continue to enjoy my DirectStream DAC! Anyway, here is a pic of my set up menu for my OPPO.

Hello Krellfan1 and welcome onboard the lyngdorf train.

I am not in here so often (as I also have a life :laugh:) but i just read through your Lyngdorf birth and want to clear up and add to the stuff you have been covering.

The MP60 is as you know a 100% digital preamplifier. If you have analog sources, you can add whatever A/D you like for great results. I do this with several sources and i love the sound of those A/Ds.

Over time, you will be extremely happy to discover that the MP60 is a advanced immersive sound processor, that allows ordinary users to tailor everything just the way you like it, as you can combine multiple choices of audio and video sources with custom voicings (advanced eq), gain settings and audio upmixing into single source selections. I just love that, and use it to correct different things in different situations from sound signature to delays. It does NOT require a custom installer to work with these things as you have discovered, and it makes it the highest-end processor on the market that does not require a certification to customise. In other words, it will adapt with your wishes and listening/viewing situations very easily. You can always create a new source, and add voicings, delay and upmix settings to it, for fast recall when needed. It takes away much messing around in the interface when you just want to enjoy.

There is no native DSD support as you also discovered. In real life, "native DSD" support would not make a difference, as it has to be converted to PCM in order for processing to work with it. So if the PCM conversion happens in the OPPO 205 (witch it does extremely well) or in the processor itself, does not matter. Set it for bitstream out, and it will bitstream every time this is required, and send out PCM when you play CDs, DVD-Audio and SACD`s.

Also remember, that the OPPO 205 is a amazing network player. If you have digital files on a network or on a USB drive these will be played from the OPPO with ease and amazing quality. The 205 also does MQA playback and it also does ROON and multichannel high resolution audio playback very well. The internal player of the MP60 only does stereo, so the 205 is a great addition to the setup.

This might be placebo... but I think that the SP/DIF output sounds better than the HDMI output when using the 205 for stereo playback... You can have both connected at any time to A/B what you like the best.

Software, both lyngdorf app and MP60 software is constantly being refined. The latest software gave you the ability to access the things that was previously only avaliable in the OSD interface. They are located in the bottom of the front webpage mp60.local/.

second last... all internal processing in the MP60 is done at 96kHz (or actually 97,6kHz in order to avoid any 1:1 conversion issues at 96 kHz input). I dont think that 192 khz sources have much to gain. I cant hear a difference using external converters running at 192 vs 96k.

Last... the input / output info in the interfaces show that the processor is being presented with. So when you, say - play a internet radio station you will not see it saying mp3 128kbps. It will rapport 16bit 44.1khz 2.0 audio, since that is what is received from the internal player module.
The output module shows the result of the processing being done.

When using the MP60 for music in your multi channel cinema, try using the upmixers. A lot of people like the Auro 3D or dolby upmixing.

I have sent you a PM, with info on how you can reach me if you have any other issues, since I am not here that often. ( @arisholm bugs the hell out of me, when he goes into REW mode, and cant find the time to come and fine-tune my system for free :p:p:clap::clap::rotfl::love:)
 
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Hello everyone,

I've got a 2170 and I'm thinking about a new sub but before I get one, I seem to recall there being an issue with lyngdorf cutting off really low bass frequencies. did this ever get resolved? if there a firmware update I need to make sure I get?

Many thanks
 
Hello everyone,

I've got a 2170 and I'm thinking about a new sub but before I get one, I seem to recall there being an issue with lyngdorf cutting off really low bass frequencies. did this ever get resolved? if there a firmware update I need to make sure I get?

Many thanks

Was resolved in a firmware update a while back.
 
Hello everyone,

I've got a 2170 and I'm thinking about a new sub but before I get one, I seem to recall there being an issue with lyngdorf cutting off really low bass frequencies. did this ever get resolved? if there a firmware update I need to make sure I get?

Many thanks

Update release history:

SW1.40A. Added speaker setups for MH-3 and BW-3

Added menu to disable 18Hz subsonic filter
 
I haven't quite understood how NDLO managed to get past 90% RK by taking multiple single point measurements.
Doesn't RP need a minimum of 90% to then calculate the filters?
 
This might be placebo... but I think that the SP/DIF output sounds better than the HDMI output when using the 205 for stereo playback... You can have both connected at any time to A/B what you like the best.

Certainly not a placebo. HDMI audio timing is derived from the video clock, which results in timing errors and thus increased jitter.
 
Certainly not a placebo. HDMI audio timing is derived from the video clock, which results in timing errors and thus increased jitter.
But does it though, or is that just audiophile paranoia? So what if it’s derived from the video clock? Surely that’s only a bad thing if the sending or receiving device doesn’t do its job properly?

I’ve compared HDMI to SPDIF on my Oppo 203 to TDAI-2170 and I couldn’t tell any difference.
 
But does it though, or is that just audiophile paranoia? So what if it’s derived from the video clock? Surely that’s only a bad thing if the sending or receiving device doesn’t do its job properly?

I’ve compared HDMI to SPDIF on my Oppo 203 to TDAI-2170 and I couldn’t tell any difference.

It's a tough one - accepting that you're not using bit rates above optical then best practice for audio only is optical. However since it only measures slightly better in the ranges we can't generally hear and that the room will do way more damage anyway - I would not be confident in taking a blind test on it.

That said HDMI, has consistently remained a mess in nearly every way. The signal has to activate the audio and video stage of the unit so more stuff is going on, but I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
 
But does it though, or is that just audiophile paranoia? So what if it’s derived from the video clock? Surely that’s only a bad thing if the sending or receiving device doesn’t do its job properly?

I’ve compared HDMI to SPDIF on my Oppo 203 to TDAI-2170 and I couldn’t tell any difference.
On my MP-50 I can hear the difference between HDMI and Coax on music on my Oppo 103. Coax sounds more natural and has slightly more bass. But it doesn’t come anywhere near the internal streamer on the MP-50, which is night and day better.
 
On my MP-50 I can hear the difference between HDMI and Coax on music on my Oppo 103. Coax sounds more natural and has slightly more bass. But it doesn’t come anywhere near the internal streamer on the MP-50, which is night and day better.
How do you use the internal streamer? DLNA via Audirvana is for example excellent IMO. And user friendly too.
 
On my MP-50 I can hear the difference between HDMI and Coax on music on my Oppo 103. Coax sounds more natural and has slightly more bass. But it doesn’t come anywhere near the internal streamer on the MP-50, which is night and day better.
ohhh.. REMEMBER to check that the settings for the two inputs are the same... I did a comparison where I almost pulled all my hair out trying to understand why it sounded so different..... Turned out to be my custom voicing applied to one of the inputs as well as a little gain adjustment.. :rotfl: :rolleyes: .
 
Sorry to change tac - is 2k the rrp for the 1120 ? I have noticed one uk website that is listing it at 2195 ?

Looking forward to the first impressions once the units arrive....

Cheers

Matt
 
Sorry to change tac - is 2k the rrp for the 1120 ? I have noticed one uk website that is listing it at 2195 ?

Looking forward to the first impressions once the units arrive....

Cheers

Matt
I’ve noticed a couple at £2195 so assumed that was the rrp
 
How do you use the internal streamer? DLNA via Audirvana is for example excellent IMO. And user friendly too.
My brother, the internal streamer can be used for DNLA/UPnP playback via the lyngdorf app or from the webinterface. In the lyngdorf app, you simply tap the funny looking "burger" icon in the top left corner and start drilling..... :). I am excited to know how you think the internal player sounds, since that is the one reponsible for everything spotify, DNLA, USB, airplay and so on....
 
My brother, the internal streamer can be used for DNLA/UPnP playback via the lyngdorf app or from the webinterface. In the lyngdorf app, you simply tap the funny looking "burger" icon in the top left corner and start drilling..... :). I am excited to know how you think the internal player sounds, since that is the one reponsible for everything spotify, DNLA, USB, airplay and so on....
:D I use the MP-50 (as a DLNA client) with Audirvana (as GUI & DLNA server) and that sounds great. Never cared much for the internal MP-50 streaming GUI though but with Audirvana that is not an issue. But you told us we will soon have Roon/RaaT and then Audirvana/DLNA goes out the door ;-)
 
How do you use the internal streamer? DLNA via Audirvana is for example excellent IMO. And user friendly too.
DNLA/UPNP, I run Minimserver on my NAS and use mconnect iOS app as the controller. Works well and has Tidal access also. UI is good and Minimserver has some good setup options to allow minimum clutter on the UI.

I tried AssetUPnP and Logitech, but they are harder to customise and also Minimserver with the stream option for transcoding sounds better.
 
My brother, the internal streamer can be used for DNLA/UPnP playback via the lyngdorf app or from the webinterface. In the lyngdorf app, you simply tap the funny looking "burger" icon in the top left corner and start drilling..... :). I am excited to know how you think the internal player sounds, since that is the one reponsible for everything spotify, DNLA, USB, airplay and so on....
The Lyngdorf app doesn’t have great user experience. The streamer control is too basic. ( being polite )

I would have loved to be in the design meeting when it was suggested that every time a user returned to the App it forgot where they were and took them back to the root of their music library. Even if the phone had locked itself through the default settings on say an iPhone.

Then another suggestion of ensuring there was no way of queuing up what the user would want to listen to next.

Lots of nodding heads and it was all agreed.
 

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