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Lyngdorf discussion

stjernholm

Active Member
When you mention the Big streaming services, does that mean native integration with Tidal on the MP-50?
Tidal via roon for perfect quality. No native integration of tidal. You want roon anyway! Their RAAT protocol are great.
 

stjernholm

Active Member
Curious, is there any reason behind why its an 8 channel amp? I’d imagine in most scenarios you’ll either be one channel light or one channel spare because of the centre channel?
With a powerful amp like this, you could use it driving subwoofers too....
 

Rob Sinden

Member
AVForums Sponsor
I’m just back from ISE where I picked up some useful stuff that may not have already been posted. This was not written in a document with technical info to support, but I thought I’d share it anyhow…..don’t shoot the messenger.

The new Lyngdorf 8 channel amp is essentially the next generation Hyphex design. Its two stand out features are a remarkable S/N ratio of 137db and a much lower level of distortion than any amplifier currently available. I understand its due to ship in August.

Lyngdorfs stand is not a good location for audio dems but the little 1120 with a pair of MH3 speakers and a single BW3 was superb. This perfectly illustrates the unique way RoomPerfect corrects the sound of the speakers and sub together so it sounds like you have big speakers rather than small ones and a sub.

RoomPerfect is the best room correction on the market and this product is going to get far more people to hear this for themselves.
 

Rob Sinden

Member
AVForums Sponsor
I saw some feedback last week about how well RoomPerfect worked in multi-channel systems while preserving the signature of the different speakers used.

RoomPerfect is the only room correction system that preserves the sound of your speakers which this feedback illustrates.

Every other system measures the combined response of the room and speakers together and then changes the sound of your speaker to match a target curve. When these systems have been used, all the speakers used will sound similar and none of them will sound the way the speaker designer wanted them to sound.

Lyngdorf stopped using this approach 20 years ago because it made all speakers sound the same.

The first reading you take with RoomPerfect fires towards the front speakers. This measurement creates a target curve that is unique to your speakers and you room. You then measure all of the room and not just the seating area to fully understand the rooms acoustics. Without capturing this information, it couldn’t give the results it does.

If you are interested in room correction, this is worth watching.

 

sanderweb

Active Member
Exactly.

Amir having measured the SINAD of the 3400 to 94 dB means that distortion becomes audible in principle long after your ears have begun to do damage control. Unless your hearing is really bad or your threshold is unusually high, once you go beyond say 90 dB your ears relatively quickly go into 'low sensitivity mode' and you sure as hell won't be troubled by a smidgen of distortion.
This was a ridiculous figure in the first place because he measured the analogue outputs. These are designed around an off-the-shelf DAC chip, primary to drive subwoofers and corner woofers. For the same reason, in my opinion, the TDAI-3400 does not belong on his SINAD list because almost no-one will use it as a stand alone DAC. It was not designed that way!
 

arisholm

Well-known Member
This was a ridiculous figure in the first place because he measured the analogue outputs. These are designed around an off-the-shelf DAC chip, primary to drive subwoofers and corner woofers. For the same reason, in my opinion, the TDAI-3400 does not belong on his SINAD list because almost no-one will use it as a stand alone DAC. It was not designed that way!
Yeah but as a matter of fact the amp section clearly also had some "issues".. But just as clearly, Amir liked the sound a lot and the power of the beast, which just illustrates how much emphasis we should have on such measurements as a "reference" SQ indicator :) BTW I have never seen Amir himself claiming that they reflect subjective SQ (and that makes me happy) even if some readers seem to interpret it that way. I still like to see those numbers and really appreciate all that effort he spends on these detailed reviews, and of course it has *some* correlation with sound quality, but the main deal is as an indicator of design quality IMO, and to feed my curiosity.:rolleyes:
 
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NDLO

Member
The first reading you take with RoomPerfect fires towards the front speakers. This measurement creates a target curve that is unique to your speakers and you room. You then measure all of the room and not just the seating area to fully understand the rooms acoustics. Without capturing this information, it couldn’t give the results it does.
Earlier in this thread a paper called FULLY AUTOMATIC LOUDSPEAKER-ROOM ADAPTATION – the RoomPerfect system by JAN ABILDGAARD PEDERSEN AND KASPER THOMSEN was presented. Strange, but it describes the work of RP differently. Absolutely. Read it.
 

NDLO

Member
Every other system measures the combined response of the room and speakers together and then changes the sound of your speaker to match a target curve. When these systems have been used, all the speakers used will sound similar
It's a calibration. E.g. properly calibrated monitors show colours the same, that's what calibration is for. If you don't like the sound right, you may use tone controls, equalizers, voicings after the calibration, but the result of the calibration should be right, not following design drawbacks and limitations of the speakers. Indus and me are talking to a radio.
 

sanderweb

Active Member
Yeah but as a matter of fact the amp section clearly also had some "issues".. But just as clearly, Amir liked the sound a lot and the power of the beast, which just illustrates how much emphasis we should have on such measurements as a "reference" SQ indicator :) BTW I have never seen Amir himself claiming that they reflect subjective SQ (and that makes me happy) even if some readers seem to interpret it that way. I still like to see those numbers and really appreciate all that effort he spends on these detailed reviews, and of course it has *some* correlation with sound quality, but the main deal is as an indicator of design quality IMO, and to feed my curiosity.:rolleyes:
Well, I am quite an objectivist myself and strongly support measurements as being part of judging the quality of audio components. But I also expect an 'independent' reviewer to delve well into the subject of his tests, doesn't compare apples to oranges, uses te right equipment and test approach and/or otherwise makes clear reservations about his/her conclusions. And has an open mind and is not biased beforehand. I have seen too many instances where Amir went wrong on these criteria and still people seem to walk away with his findings. This can harm brands that are dedicated to deliver good products. Not saying that there isn't a lot of snake oil.
 

KrellFan1

Novice Member
Hi everyone. First post on this board and looking for help. I’m a new owner of the Lyngdorf MP-60 and have encountered surprising issues/glitches and hoping someone knows more than I can glean. I have an OPPO 205 that outputs PCM multichannel but the MP-60 somehow doesn’t seem to support PCM uncompressed multichannel audio. Really? Did my installer MISS something somehow. It’s seems inconceivable that the unit will not support PCM 5.1 over HDMI. Nor does it support PCM 5.1 for Blu-ray audio. How can a unit that support Dolby Atmos in such glory fail to offer support for uncompressed audio? Bad enough we don’t enjoy any analog support whatsoever so I’ve lost the use of my favorite DAC but at least there’s a workaround for that with the purchase of a dedicated 2.0 preamp that supports HT bypass.

any knowledge or suggestions greatly appreciated!
 

arisholm

Well-known Member
Hi everyone. First post on this board and looking for help. I’m a new owner of the Lyngdorf MP-60 and have encountered surprising issues/glitches and hoping someone knows more than I can glean. I have an OPPO 205 that outputs PCM multichannel but the MP-60 somehow doesn’t seem to support PCM uncompressed multichannel audio. Really? Did my installer MISS something somehow. It’s seems inconceivable that the unit will not support PCM 5.1 over HDMI. Nor does it support PCM 5.1 for Blu-ray audio. How can a unit that support Dolby Atmos in such glory fail to offer support for uncompressed audio? Bad enough we don’t enjoy any analog support whatsoever so I’ve lost the use of my favorite DAC but at least there’s a workaround for that with the purchase of a dedicated 2.0 preamp that supports HT bypass.

any knowledge or suggestions greatly appreciated!
Not sure if this is super helpful but at least I play PCM 5.1 from my Oppo 105D over HDMI to the MP-50 just fine, in fact I prefer it over Atmos on my 2L disks. Multichannel SACD converted to PCM too. Did you check all those HDMI output settings on the Oppo?
 
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KrellFan1

Novice Member
Not sure if this is super helpful but at least I play PCM 5.1 from my Oppo 105D to the MP-50 just fine, in fact I prefer it over Atmos on my 2L disks. Did you check all those HDMI output settings on the Oppo?
Thank you, and yes I did check all of the output settings, quite sure. My tech installer made no changes going from the Krell Foundation to this MP-60 at all, so I find the experience more than a little frustrating. It makes no sense, though I am encouraged to know that your MP-50 DOES support PCM 5.1. Please see attached screenshot.
 

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Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Post processing = legacy

Maybe?

Screenshot_20200215-220336_Chrome.jpg
 
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arisholm

Well-known Member
This is what I get with processing = none:
1581804344747.png
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
None or legacy will show that. I'm trying to understand the difference to be honest.
 

arisholm

Well-known Member
Thank you! I can certainly give that a try in a few bit seems like an unlikely fox. I meant, why would the unit not simply accept the PCM multichannel as is and instead down sample the signal to compressed audio. Makes no sense!
It does not downsample or add any processing in my case as you can see from the screenshot (out=5.1.0). It used to be a bug a while back where you had to switch processing to "something else" and then back to "none". Perhaps try that...
 

KrellFan1

Novice Member
None or legacy will show that. I'm trying to understand the difference to be honest.
I have none selected and yet..... so odd. Unless we can resolve may have to return. I otherwise love the unit. It’s fabulous in every domain save for this glitch and of course lack of analogue support which I can resolve by way of a dedicated 2.0 preamp that supports HT bypass. Would rather not have to buy another box and interconnects but don’t want to lose my DirectStream DAC!
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Thank you! I can certainly give that a try in a few bit seems like an unlikely fox. I meant, why would the unit not simply accept the PCM multichannel as is and instead down sample the signal to compressed audio. Makes no sense!
I have a list for Lyngdorf for tweaks. The rule has always been turn off bitstreaming in your source and then it won't decode the stream.

This to my knowledge has always been the case wit multichannel audio.
 

KrellFan1

Novice Member
This is what I get with processing = none:
View attachment 1258461
Would any of you be so kind as to share a screenshot of your OPPO settings Audio Output Setup? I don’t know that it would have any bearing on my situation because as you can see by the screenshots the OPPO is clearly outputting PCM 5.1. I have selected “none,” and have also tried “Legacy,” but to no avail. I’ve also changed from Bitstream to LPCM but to no avail And I note your screenshot shows “PCM @96 kHz. All I pull is is 88.2 kHz in this domain. So weird! As you can see I’ve tried just about everything!
I DO have a transport player connected via Coaxial but that should of course have no bearing on this issue. Pls see screenshots and thanks.
 

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KrellFan1

Novice Member
I have a list for Lyngdorf for tweaks. The rule has always been turn off bitstreaming in your source and then it won't decode the stream.

This to my knowledge has always been the case wit multichannel audio.
Rock, thanks again and have switched to LPCM but no dice. Issue persists. I’m just wondering if the OPPO needs a re-start or reboot to “clear out the cobwebs.” But again, I rather doubt the OPPO is the culprit here as it is telling me it OS outputting PCM 5.1 @ 88.2 kHz and not the 96 kHz I’ve seen others here on the board. Weird. Audio hell! 😫
 

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KrellFan1

Novice Member
Rock, thanks again and have switched to LPCM but no dice. Issue persists. I’m just wondering if the OPPO needs a re-start or reboot to “clear out the cobwebs.” But again, I rather doubt the OPPO is the culprit here as it is telling me it OS outputting PCM 5.1 @ 88.2 kHz and not the 96 kHz I’ve seen others here on the board. Weird. Audio hell! 😫
Check this out! Upon inserting an SACD into the tray I checked out the front panel of the MP-60 RATHER than the app or web browser. It CLEARLY shows that the newly released Jimi Hendrix remastering of Electric Ladyland os pointing to PCM 5.1 @96 kHz. So does this mean that this what the Lyngdorf is OUTPUTTING or does this LED display communicate the SOURCE ONLY? If so, safe to assume that I am actually getting to PCM but the app or web browser is somehow corrupt. Is that a possibility in anyone’s experience ? Check out the picture! So bottom line is, does this window of wonder tell is what the box is reading or what it is PLAYING?
 

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Seriously Ltd

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The app and browser do not give accurate info. This is a bug that we have reported to Lyngdorf. Trust the MP-60’s actual display screen information.
 

KrellFan1

Novice Member
Thanks very much, Seriously. I seriously appreciate it. You’d think these guys could get their act together. I mean, geez, no OSD bad enough. Can live with that if we at least had reliable feedback on the damn app and web interface! I feel like an idiot bothering my installer over the weekend! That’s said, at least the volume controls work! 😎🎶
 

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