Lyngdorf discussion

If I want to take the 3400 to the next level, do yo think getting a good streamer like the Aireis G2 will make any difference. I am confused when it comes to steamers, will the same DAC sound different when changing the streamer?
Right now I am connecting my 3400 to a MacBook as a source and as a Roon server.
The G2 is super sexy I know, it was on my shortlist for a while, but I don't see how that would improve anything in combination with the 3400, given the power-dac design... But there are different opinions about this...
If I were you, I would spend that money on a great old turntable instead, just for the fun of spinning vinyl and enjoy the limited dynamic range, non-existent channel separation, increased THD and even 0.3% "wow and flutter"!... but with some "magic";-) that is my plan at least.

EDIT: Sorry I was thinking about the G2 DAC not the G2 streamer. The G2 streamer might possibly make a difference, and as @Rkosak says below, it is also very convenient.
 
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My question to my beloved fellow members in this forum, have you had the chance to compare the 3400 to other expensive AB amps?
Would you laugh at me just like all my friends and give the same comment "are yo joking by driving your speakers with this digital amp".

Yes. The 3400 is very capable amplifier. It measures well and sounds well especially with room perfect engaged. If you have behemoth inefficient speakers, then more power may be a consideration, just like any set up - but for anyone trotting out the usual tropes of 'digital' or 'class' you can objectively measure it and hear it compared to systems costing much more.

Things have moved on from the golden age of HiFi - but a lot of people didn't because they want to keep an emotional and sometimes mystical attachment to it, like ethernet switches that do absolutely nothing.

Caveat! As someone who's done a fair few networks some non branded Chi Com switches are absolutely terrible, I even had a modem router that audibly squealed from 12feet away every time the tx/rx led blinked. And I've heard packets from wireless cards hop into the audio chain - so clean power at the very high end gear should be on your list.

And beeswax.
 
If I want to take the 3400 to the next level, do yo think getting a good streamer like the Aireis G2 will make any difference. I am confused when it comes to steamers, will the same DAC sound different when changing the streamer?
Right now I am connecting my 3400 to a MacBook as a source and as a Roon server.

From my listening experience I do recommend adding good standalone streamer to TDAI 3400. I’ve tested TDAI built in streamer vs Aurender N100H and Aurender is noticeable better sounding in my system (via USB, also via AES/EBU using Matrix X-SPDIF 2 converter). Sound is most important reason for me. And Auralic Aries G2 is even better sounding streamer. Have not tested Aries G2 on my own system, but I heard it on another system with TDAI 3400 and it sounded great (by the way, 3400 has no problem to drive Bowers & Wilkins 802 D2 speakers in that setup).

Also, the user interface and functions of built in Lyngdorf streamer is very poor, any good streamer has app with far better UI (Arender’s Conductor app or Auralic’s Lightning DS app are great).
 
If I want to take the 3400 to the next level, do yo think getting a good streamer like the Aireis G2 will make any difference. I am confused when it comes to steamers, will the same DAC sound different when changing the streamer?
Right now I am connecting my 3400 to a MacBook as a source and as a Roon server.

Like @Rkosak it is my experience too is that the 3400 will benefit from a better streamer. I tested this with the dCS Network bridge via AES/EBU. The difference is not huge though. If you really want to take your system to a next level, add a very good external DAC. And I can recommend a switch that is optimised for audio-related use. Well engineered of course.. ;)

Other advise: get a demo-unit and try it in you own system and ignore @Rock Danger
 
3400 has no problem to drive Bowers & Wilkins 802 D2 speakers in that setup).
last year I exhibited the TDAI-3400 with a pair of B&W803 at the North West Audio Show and it sounded fantastic, also had the ability to have the speakers right up against the wall.
 
Other advise: get a demo-unit and try it in you own system and ignore @Rock Danger

Yes and also ignore the other members saying the exact same thing as me and the horrendous test results of a useless overpriced, badly engineered product and instead base all your data on how you feel / how easily you're bamboozled by psuedo science bullshit.
 
Yes and also ignore the other members saying the exact same thing as me and the horrendous test results of a useless overpriced, badly engineered product and instead base all your data on how you feel / how easily you're bamboozled by psuedo science bullsh*t.
..........but it does make a nice cup warmer so not totally useless.
 
..........but it does make a nice cup warmer so not totally useless.
That is a great point as I am trying to get rid of hot hifi. My dam amps get very warm.
 
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It's like a whole new system. Bloody big fuse.

In seriousness however I would like to see a fancier power cable shipped with the Lyngdorf line. Nothing silly, but a little bit of dazzle.

Although I use them (except my subs) these £1.50 power cables have always irked me a bit.
 
..........but it does make a nice cup warmer so not totally useless.

If someone wants to spend $650 on a coffee warmer go ahead, just don't tell me it'll make me more attractive to women, repel evil spirits and ward off slightly aggressive horses.


That is a great point as I am trying to get rid of hot hifi. My dam amps get very warm.

Is this your TAG stuff? The SDA's are stone cold, like my heart.. I've never seen the Anthem A5 get hot either, but has mahoussive heat sinks and 4000lbs of aluminium.
 
If someone wants to spend $650 on a coffee warmer go ahead, just don't tell me it'll make me more attractive to women, repel evil spirits and ward off slightly aggressive horses.




Is this your TAG stuff? The SDA's are stone cold, like my heart.. I've never seen the Anthem A5 get hot either, but has mahoussive heat sinks and 4000lbs of aluminium.
Yes Tags. New cooler amps are on the list, but 4K screen and player is top of the list. See what Panasonic announce at ISE. No projector here.
 
In seriousness however I would like to see a fancier power cable shipped with the Lyngdorf line. Nothing silly, but a little bit of dazzle.

Although I use them (except my subs) these £1.50 power cables have always irked me a bit.
Well the Wireworld Stratus 7 cables give plenty of dazzle at a "reasonable" price, even the cats will be impressed;-)
 
Well the Wireworld Stratus 7 cables give plenty of dazzle at a "reasonable" price, even the cats will be impressed;-)

£109! I made posh ones for my subs at about £17 or so, got the end bits from Japan and some beat the wife cable from here. Should really glue some wood around it.. to enhance bassoon solos of course.

It's just the whole x grand for product, janky cable supplied... surprised we get batteries. I'd like to see a backlit remote as well.
 
£109! I made posh ones for my subs at about £17 or so, got the end bits from Japan and some beat the wife cable from here. Should really glue some wood around it.. to enhance bassoon solos of course.

It's just the whole x grand for product, janky cable supplied... surprised we get batteries. I'd like to see a backlit remote as well.
Well I have to hide my cables anyway, after my recent posts especially, so no dazzling around here ;-) A fair bit cheaper but still a reasonable dazzle-effect with all the buzzwords intact: In akustik reference power ac-2502F, about £20 per meter I think.
 
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@Rock Danger Since I pointed out your cable mess a while ago:) As you can see I am a lot more tidy than you. And notice the brass "cable lifter" in the right corner.
PS: and my toes were in there too! That was just to add some class to the pic ;-)
 
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This guy staked his professional reputation on the fact that there is no mileage in audiophile Ethernet switches before the first production unit shipped. He has total expectation bias, like some of you fellas.

The developers of the switch also said before launch that you cannot measure the switch with current tools it was developed by theory and by listening.....

ThisAmir guy also "measured" the TDAI3400 and found it to be rather shit too.

I'm happy to demo the switch vs cisco managed switch to any forum members in east Kent. @Steve413 has an open invitation to hear how good the 3400 can sound just with Spotify and you tube via apple TV.....
 
You should go on the ASR forum and tell him why he's wrong. Please remember to link us all in.

you cannot measure the switch with current tools it was developed by theory and by listening.....

Brilliant.. I love how you're prepared to double down on this - was it forged by the gods? Is Gwyneth Paltrow behind this is in some way?

ThisAmir guy also "measured" the TDAI3400 and found it to be rather sh*t too.

That's not quite right. Firstly it wasn't measured against something utterly identical, nor did he end up with a no difference conclusion, nor was it deemed ropey in it's build quality and thermals. He did however take exception to one part of the design but at the end of day found the 'what you hear' result to be favourable as the RC obviously helps things along.

This is not an apples to apples comparison. To say you can't measure your before and after response when your human ears can tell the difference is hilarious.
 
Here's the thing: you can't listen to an ethernet switch unless it makes a noise itself. If you put an ethernet switch into a system you must listen to the systems, which means "the sound that comes out of your speakers". Ideally, ideally, when you make one change in the chain you could hear the difference between before and after. However, making that change involves a bunch of emotions ($650 tends to do that) and expectations, and it takes so long to do it that once you find your favorite song and try to listen for micro differences you've literally forgotten what the system sounded like before you made the change. Humans are brilliant at recognising sounds but crap at comparing two sounds once a few seconds have passed between them. The McGurk effect is a brilliant example that our hearing is not a particularly clever sense compared with other stuff we're equipped with (like sight).

Other than that, the switch thing claims to reclock the digital signal (which is unnecessary because it will be reclocked in the DAC anyway), to reject "external leakage currents" (which Amir shows is wrong), and ensure "maximal signal integrity" as if normal switches leaked packages left and right (they don't). And so on.

Amir did measure the TDAI-3400 and, contrary to his bias he found that it wasn't as good as he hoped. It's not a surprise that he has preconceptions and that might bias his reasoning and judgement of a product. Preconceptions have been described in philosophy since literally the beginning of philosophy. If there ever was a universal human trait, that seems to be the one. However, what Amir is doing is to explain why he reaches the conclusion he does, by showing a) what he measures, b) how he measures, and c) what he thinks it means. Since he does all those three things, you can either dismiss his choice of measurement, his method of measurement or his conclusions based on those measurements.

That's why you can look at the graphs of the TDAI-3400 measurements and go "hm. They kinda look wonky, but it still sounds good. That might mean that the TDAI-3400 could be better, but it still sounds good. Maybe the measurements are more thorough than I reasonably need." Or you can go "I'm frickin paying thousands, I should get -120 dB distortion peaks!" At that point, it's your choice.

Sorry for the rant and I don't mean to come across as hostile. As Voltaire or someone (don't have time to look it up) might have said, "I would have written shorter/less hostile but I didn't have the time".
 
You should go on the ASR forum and tell him why he's wrong. Please remember to link us all in

Total waste of time , he is a close minded individual. I'm just happy to share my experiences with open minded individuals. I have no personal affiliation with this switch just an exceedingly happy customer who thinks £660 Is exceedingly good value for SQ gains in my system.

This product is offered on 30 day no quibble return it will only cost anyone return postage to try..... however first 3 production runs already sold out so you might have to wait a while :)
 
Maybe the measurements are more thorough than I reasonably need.

It can't be measured tho, hence your argument is redundant. :rotfl:


Total waste of time , he is a close minded individual. I'm just happy to share my experiences with open minded individuals. I have no personal affiliation with this switch just an exceedingly happy customer who thinks £660 Is exceedingly good value for SQ gains in my system.

I think he's pretty thorough and does tend to have solid arguments and measurements based in at least this version of earth. If you like the switch and you think it's great I am genuinely happy that you are enjoying it.

This product is offered on 30 day no quibble return it will only cost anyone return postage to try..... however first 3 production runs already sold out so you might have to wait a while :)

I think that's the law for that type of consumable. Side note.. do you think Ray Charles designed the website?
 
@hestepare good post with some good info and I appreciate you not going ad hominem like rock.

In my system the improvement with this switch is so significant even my wife went Wow! It's so much better on tone and detail and soundstage it's like moving up a tier in major components.
 
ad hominem

Not ad hominem. I've not attacked anyone's character here. I have attacked the absurd claim of magic ethernet switches as have others. You just however attacked a guy with extensive experience in networking and audio science by calling him 'a closed minded individual with expectation bias'
 
The developers of the switch also said before launch that you cannot measure the switch with current tools it was developed by theory and by listening.....
.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: Alternate Physics just for audiophools. The Theory of Irrelevancy
 
Not ad hominem. I've not attacked anyone's character here. I have attacked the absurd claim of magic ethernet switches as have others. You just however attacked a guy with extensive experience in networking and audio science by calling him 'a closed minded individual with expectation bias'

Maybe your attacks are not ad hominem but they are aggressive and mockingly disparaging for sure as are others here too.

Amir does have expectation bias 100% nailed on and do you. You have not heard the switch yet you are certain it can offer you no discernable benefit.

Experts like Amir are often caught out by things like this switch because it does not fit with what they were taught or have personally experienced they react strongly to theories that don't fit. I think that applies to somewhere between 20 and 50% of individuals in my experience.

I was an analytical chemist for pharma and I'm now a quality manager. Analytical measurements are actually similar to hifi in many ways. Signal to noise can make or break an instrument just as much as a stereo system. There can be many sources of error in measurements and it's easy to measure the wrong things and draw wrong conclusions at times. I've also had a good amount of training on bias , it's very common and not easy to tackle.

There are many things we do not understand yet in pharmaceutical science and plenty yet to know about electronics.

If I had £1000 for every expert I knew, being ultimately incorrect about something they were certain of.... had measurements for .... and peer and management support to boot I think I could retire :clap:
 
Apologies @Discopants if my initial response to your post came across too strongly... It was mainly targeted towards that company "Home" with their 12,000EUR ethernet switch and their other fraudulent products (IMO), and was definitely not meant as any sort of personal attack on your purchases. I am happy that you enjoy it ;-)
 

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