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Lyngdorf discussion

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
upgraded my fuses in the wall.... 😘


It is so interesting that i some ways you and i are very close in gear and previous jobs 😁. I have been working in music production and sound design for film for 25 years, so i know where you are coming from on cables 😁. ill guess there is something about the lyngdorf feature set, as well as the M&K stuff that resonates and feel safe and trustworthy to us?

BTW I use long SCP fibre HDMI cables. They are smarter than the RUIPRO that might be basicly the same, but without the ability to take the hdmi plug apart for easy pulling.
A lot of musicians and audio guys like MK / Lyngdorf combo - it's about as good as you can get before a truly active system like Steinway Lyngdorf for example. Everyone from Dolby engineers to average forum users have had quite the surprise during demos because unfortunately bad hi end systems outweigh good ones by quite a stretch.

I understand that my system, altho very good is limited by real world problems and no fuse or cable or interpretive dance can help that - have you ever been in a studio where an engineer has ever said:
"hmm hang on, that's sounding a little harsh, let me change the fuse here and if that doesn't work we'll use the braided XLR on the mic"
 

DT79

Well-known Member
200Hz (mid/low) needs 43 cm of absorption.
Yeah I’m not going to be able to manage that!

TBH, it’s not a major issue, it sounds great and as I say RP has already helped immensely. I was just wondering about the last 10%.

I’ll try the advice of taking a few >95% measurements around that area and see what that does.
 

doorofnight

Member
That's a good idea.
 

Ashmanuk

Well-known Member
Anyone. Know what the MP-50 3.6.3 software update is?
 

arisholm

Well-known Member
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Rock Danger

Distinguished Member

Ashmanuk

Well-known Member
I wonder if it's to do with making a speaker change and you still have Roomperfect engaged after that change?

Normally I loose RP until i re run it.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
I wouldn't think so. Could be bugfixes, at a glance the menus seems the same.
 

DT79

Well-known Member
OK I re-ran RP and as discussed I did a couple of my >95% measurements with the microphone very close to the rear wall behind where my head normally is; one with the mic pointing up, one with it pointing to the side. I got to 100% room knowledge then did an extra one just for good measure.

I have to say RP is doing an incredibly good job of mitigating my proximity to the rear wall. On the Focus setting I really don’t think I can tell any difference between being sat back normally, and leaning forward. The soundstage is just as 3-dimensional either way.

On Global there is a subtle difference, which I guess is to be expected, but it is less than before. Focus is sounding lovely right now, so I’m sticking with that.

Thanks for the advice chaps.
 

arisholm

Well-known Member
Kudos to @stjernholm for all the systematic and time consuming beta-testing he is doing on the MP-50/60 so that us lazy guys will have little to complain about :smashin:
 
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ibux

Member
Hi,

I've recently aquired the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400. I'm running Roon and using Tidal HiFi. Recently I've also started looking into Tidal Masters and MQA. I understand there's quite a debate going on regarding sound quality, DRM, royalties and so on, but those are topics I'd like to let rest for now :) I'm wondering about MQA capabilities in the Lyngdorf products.

From what I've understood so far (and please correct me if I'm wrong here) there are two MQA operations; decoding (first unfold) and rendering (second unfold). Decoding happens in Roon (or other audio software), and rendering happens in an MQA decoder/renderer enabled DAC. Is it correct that the TDAI-3400 currently doesnt't support MQA rendering (or decoding for that matter)?

Also, from what I read on the MQA website Lyngdorf confirmed future MQA integration earlier. Does anyone know anything about this? And is it even possible MQA rendering can be made accessible with a firmware update to the TDAI-3400, or is hardware needed?

Apologies if my questions have been answered elsewhere earlier. I haven't been able to find them.
 
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scoc

Well-known Member
LA 3400 does not support MQA decoding as such. Personally I don’t see why they would bother supporting MQA anyway. MQA is overrated and a marketing gimmick. LA should better spend their time supporting Roon properly in MP50/60.
 

DT79

Well-known Member
I don’t get what this first unfold/second unfold malarkey is about, if MQA is a codec or container then why would you need anything other than one pass to decode/unpack it? Also, the second stage doesn’t appear to be necessary to me. The Roon core unpacks it and 24bit/96khz is passed downstream - I can see that In the playback status. What more could the playback hardware do with it?
 

doorofnight

Member
Anyway, how good are the Lyngdorf FR-1 speakers? Can they compete with very good floorstanders?
 
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arisholm

Well-known Member
MQA does not feel like a marketing gimmick when rendered through my dCS DAC. But the TDAI/MP will not support it since it processes everything at 96kHz internally. A big loss? No, but some of those MQA recordings do sound slightly better through the dCS than through the MP-50.
 

doorofnight

Member
Not really. Depends on the construction. For example, combining different layers with different properties:
And you can get a lot more effective than that too at even lower frequencies with heavy resonant bass traps, even just 10-15 cm thick (not fiberglass or foam), but that is another story and not relevant for @DT79 .
I was not aware of these (new?) materials, and I have to look into it more carefully.
 

arisholm

Well-known Member
I was not aware of these (new?) materials, and I have to look into it more carefully.
I suspect they are just making a "membrane" with some stiffer materials in the front, combined with softer materials behind, but with a solid frame, thus creating a resonant chamber...
 

ibux

Member
MQA does not feel like a marketing gimmick when rendered through my dCS DAC. But the TDAI/MP will not support it since it processes everything at 96kHz internally. A big loss? No, but some of those MQA recordings do sound slightly better through the dCS than through the MP-50.
Maybe a silly question, but if the TDAI/MP processes everything at 96kHz internally (which matches the audio stream from Roon), what does the dCS DAC do that the TDAI/MP does not?
 

arisholm

Well-known Member
Maybe a silly question, but if the TDAI/MP processes everything at 96kHz internally (which matches the audio stream from Roon), what does the dCS DAC do that the TDAI/MP does not?
:D I do realise this is another rabbit hole, but I will try to answer...
The dCS is a pretty fancy kit so what it does to translate those bits to music, it does really well. So what I observe probably has mostly to do with the DAC itself, clocks, jitter attenuation, those fancy balanced output buffers, etc more than MQA vs not-MQA and it is difficult to be sure about any thing when it sounds so good to start with. But on very good recordings, that final "MQA rendering" up to e.g. 384kHz offered by the dCS DAC does seem to add some extra level of "being there" resolution that is fairly easy to hear, even with my old ears, also when I compare the same source through Roon via microRendu into the Mp-50 via USB... It is not easy for me to explain since I am not a hifi-journalist and refuse to use those words that they use. And I have not done any kind of A/B tests so I am clearly on thin ice here. But yes, that extra rendering does something to the better, on very good recordings... but it is marginal compared with for example a new amp, and inconsequential compared with getting new speakers, and completely nonsense compared with getting a better room :)
edit: I guess what I am saying is don't worry about it, there are so many other aspects to improve compared with the potential and tiny benefits of the MQA rendering.
 
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orange55

Well-known Member
:D I do realise this is another rabbit hole, but I will try to answer...
The dCS is a pretty fancy kit so what it does to translate those bits to music, it does really well. So what I observe probably has mostly to do with the DAC itself, clocks, jitter attenuation, those fancy balanced output buffers, etc more than MQA vs not-MQA and it is difficult to be sure about any thing when it sounds so good to start with. But on very good recordings, that final "MQA rendering" up to e.g. 384kHz offered by the dCS DAC does seem to add some extra level of "being there" resolution that is fairly easy to hear, even with my old ears, also when I compare the same source through Roon via microRendu into the Mp-50 via USB... It is not easy for me to explain since I am not a hifi-journalist and refuse to use those words that they use. And I have not done any kind of A/B tests so I am clearly on thin ice here. But yes, that extra rendering does something to the better, on very good recordings... but it is marginal compared with for example a new amp, and inconsequential compared with getting new speakers, and completely nonsense compared with getting a better room :)
edit: I guess what I am saying is don't worry about it, there are so many other aspects to improve compared with the potential and tiny benefits of the MQA rendering.
But what about new fuses?
 

Rob Sinden

Member
AVForums Sponsor
The measurment that Amir took here were incorrect. Lyngdorf’s TDA’s (true digital amplifiers) are a different design than other digital amplifiers and so they must be measured differently.

When measuring TDA’s you must:

Turn off ICC
Use AUX-0025 filter in front of your Audio Precision unit
Measure a single channel at a time

........then you will get the measurments you expect.

One of the features of Lyngdorf and Steinway systems is that they are silent. This isnt something I thought was a problem until I lived with their systems. When you do and then go back to traditional electronics, the noise they induce is obvious.

I think most people who have lived with a TDA will agree with this and would be dubious of the poor measured results published in this review. Apparently he thought the amp sounded terrific which was at odds with his poor (incorrect) measurements.

Years ago I tried Rotel digital amps and they sounded awful. I loved their analogue amps, but not their digital products. I mention this becuase the benefits that digital amps promise often dont translate to good sound so I would warn people not to bundle all digital amps as one.

Last year, someone familar with REW measured two of the cinema systems here. One measured very flat down to 10Hz, the other had no response below 100Hz. He regarded this as proof that the system was bass lite, even though the bass from this system was making the chairs we were sat on vibrate.

The system actually gave very flat response to well below 20Hz which he measured on a later visit. The reason for the poor measurments was an error had occured in REW and the mic being used was the one built into his laptop.

I’m all for measurments but its important that they taken are interpreted correctly which very often they are not.

Most important of all is to let your ears be the judge.
 

ibux

Member
I got an email response from Lyngdorf as well:

Hi

the 2nd unfolding of MQA is primarily a filter with 'compensation' for errors related to the conversion in the DAC chip in operation

  • as the process of your TDAI-3400 does not feature any DAC chip, MQA has their difficulties in designing the integration


but do not expect any significant change to the performance – even if MQA 2nd unfolding should be added



Best regards
Flemming Smith
LYNGDORF AUDIO
They didn't answer how second unfold of MQA might be implemented (if at all) in the TDAI-3400.
 

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