Lyngdorf 1120 Vs seperates

Silverscream

Standard Member
My c388 broke down and while in repair the dealer provided me with a NAD M10. It was a delight to listen to with my Lintons. The Dirac took care of the uncontrolled bass, however I was not to happy with voices. Took home a Naim Atom and it was quite different, the singers more present and close up. Enjoyed it. However the Lintons bass was all over my living room. I then decided to give the 1120 a try and immediately I realized it is a good match with the speakers. And 1000 euros cheaper!
 

Sollybob

Member
Thanks for the reference to John Darko. I respect he's making a living from things as pleasant as listening to music and dealing with hifi gear. Apart from that the LS50 needing expensive amps to compete with the Wireless is just as much widely accepted as them being impossible to integrate with subs (unless you let them run full range). In other words: I wholeheartedly disagree. From my personal experience all they need are quality amps (of course) that can deal easily with 4 ohms load (as the LS50 is not really an 8 ohms speaker, despite KEF's claim).

So far it looks like your sonic problem is theoretically solved, leaving you behind with the budget problem of not being able to sell your previous gear. So, where to go from here?

Shelving out more money on new speakers might or might not help. I have no doubt the Metas are even better than the already excellent LS50 (my dealer describes the Meta as a "small improvement", but I didn't have the chance to listen to them for myself). But this move will certainly not lower the burden on your wallet. The outgoing LS50 has been available so dead cheap, 2nd hand prices are probably completely spoiled, still.

Maybe the TDAI-3400 would have been a more suitable replacement for your separates, but the invest would have been noticeably higher, definitely not cost neutral. A 2nd hand TDAI-2170 (which is out of production now according to many sources) with its plethora of input modules and outputs could have been another option, keeping the streamer at least. But selling the 1120 now will surely result in further monetary loss (plus Lyngdorf claims it to sound exactly the same as the 1120 from the amplifier perspective).

Go figure.

@karlsushi, everyone as he likes. :)
The other option I am considering is trying a minidsp unit with Dirac live alongside the seperates to see how it compares with the lyngdorf as that would be a lower cost all round solution but it's more faff. i'm so happy with my new combination that it makes sense to halt the research, tighten my belt for a few months and enjoy the listening.

Part of the reason for taking the lyngdorf was it's 120w power output at 4 ohms making it a good match with the ls50.
 

karlsushi

Active Member
I use the pc software version of Dirac Live. It is a relatively simple plug-in solution that is compatible with any half-decent PC media player (I use J:River).

The only thing it restricts me to is that I have to use my PC as a media source, but the advantage is that I can use any equipment I wish to use downstream, so can try out different DACs, amps and speakers all with the advantage of the Dirac room correction.

It has been a revelation and at the cost of around £200 I think it is now, surely has to be one of the most cost effective hifi upgrades there is.

My downstream equipment is about £6k's worth of DAC/amps/Speakers and if I paid triple that on my kit, Dirac is the one part of my system I can't now live without.
 

harkpabst

Active Member
The other option I am considering is trying a minidsp unit with Dirac live alongside the seperates to see how it compares with the lyngdorf as that would be a lower cost all round solution but it's more faff. i'm so happy with my new combination that it makes sense to halt the research, tighten my belt for a few months and enjoy the listening.

Part of the reason for taking the lyngdorf was it's 120w power output at 4 ohms making it a good match with the ls50.
I've been using a miniDSP 2x4 myself for a couple of years, not for Dirac but as an active crossover with FAST dipole speakers. It's well worth its money, but ADC/DAC quality is somewhat limited compared to the other components we are talking about. Also it's output is limited to 0.9 V rms (well suited to older amplifiers) so you must pay attention to the overall gain structure. Input sensitivity is switchable between 0.9 and 2 V rms.

miniDSP 2x4 HD provides a maximum output of 2 V rms (better suited to modern amps) but it's twice the price of the non-HD. Here you must pay attention to the input sensitivity which can be switched between 2 V and 4 V rms. If the Chord has a maximum output of roughly 2 V or 4 V for digital full scale everything is fine. If it's noticeably lower then you would be loosing resolution.

Couldn't agree more on the power output of the 1120 being a perfect match for LS50.
 

Paul7777x

Member
I’ve just gotten back, and fitted, my Volt bass driver for my AVI Trios following a factory recone.

I’ve been playing them again all morning and afternoon, I didn’t bother with Room Perfect to give the new driver and squashed gasket time to settle.

I’d forgotten how superb an amp it is in its own right (as it were) without RP.

Well worth the cash. It’s a bargain even at two grand. Which I know is serious money, but bloody hell... it’s fantastically good.

And I’d forgotten how magnificent are the Trios.
 

Paul7777x

Member
I've been using a miniDSP 2x4 myself for a couple of years, not for Dirac but as an active crossover with FAST dipole speakers. It's well worth its money, but ADC/DAC quality is somewhat limited compared to the other components we are talking about. Also it's output is limited to 0.9 V rms (well suited to older amplifiers) so you must pay attention to the overall gain structure. Input sensitivity is switchable between 0.9 and 2 V rms.

miniDSP 2x4 HD provides a maximum output of 2 V rms (better suited to modern amps) but it's twice the price of the non-HD. Here you must pay attention to the input sensitivity which can be switched between 2 V and 4 V rms. If the Chord has a maximum output of roughly 2 V or 4 V for digital full scale everything is fine. If it's noticeably lower then you would be loosing resolution.

Couldn't agree more on the power output of the 1120 being a perfect match for LS50.

The internal processing is done at 96khz in the HD too, but at 48khz in the original DDRC. If I’m remembering things correctly.

Whether or not it makes an audible difference I don’t know.
 

EightSixEight

Standard Member
Part of the reason for taking the lyngdorf was it's 120w power output at 4 ohms making it a good match with the ls50.

This is an excerpt from my posting on a different forum regarding the 1120 + KEF LS-50 Meta + SVS 3000 Sub:

After a relative quick 20 min setup (the unit comes with a mic, XLR cable and a stand) running the RoomPerfect wizard (I took 8 point measurements) I was anxious for the results. Especially since I've already returned the gorgeous Yammy.

The results are UNBELIEVABLE!!! The RoomPerfect integrates not only the KEF speakers, but also the SVS sub (with crossover, delay measurements, etc). Again, I am in awe on how good the integration is now. The KEFs sound full, powerful but delicate, the soundstage is great as well. The sub is totally invisible (as unable to locate its sound source), muscular (when needed) but with absolute no boom and no unwanted vibrations.

I was afraid the the baby Lyngdorf will be too anemic to drive the inefficiencent KEFs, but this was unfounded. At just a tad past half volume the sound is too loud for normal listening.

What also is very impressive is that at music remains intact (nice bass, vocals, etc) even at very low volume. I don't feel the need to turn up the volume to hear all the details.

Lastly, the unit is not only designed, but also manufactured in Denmark. I have nothing against Far East factories, but when I have the option, I prefer to buy Made in USA, Japan, or EU.
 
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[email protected]

Novice Member
Harkpabst is right.
a TDAI is a dac itself ( a power DAC), and its analogue inputs go straight to an analogue to digital converter before it gets to the mainboard of the TDAI.
So, what you are doing with the Chord DAC is converting a signal to analogue, to have it converted back to digital when it enters the analogue module of the TDAI.
I do suggest you try the bluesound connected directly to the lyngdorf via a good digital cable. The resolution has to improve, even if you believe you prefer ir via the Chord DAC.
You may try to upsample the signal, if you have a good way to process it. This may give better results than the external dac.
 

Hikoki

Member
This is an excerpt from my posting on a different forum regarding the 1120 + KEF LS-50 Meta + SVS 3000 Pro Sub:

After a relative quick 20 min setup (the unit comes with a mic, XLR cable and a stand) running the RoomPerfect wizard (I took 8 point measurements) I was anxious for the results. Especially since I've already returned the gorgeous Yammy.

The results are UNBELIEVABLE!!! The RoomPerfect integrates not only the KEF speakers, but also the SVS sub (with crossover, delay measurements, etc). Again, I am in awe on how good the integration is now. The KEFs sound full, powerful but delicate, the soundstage is great as well. The sub is totally invisible (as unable to locate its sound source), muscular (when needed) but with absolute no boom and no unwanted vibrations.

I was afraid the the baby Lyngdorf will be too anemic to drive the inefficiencent KEFs, but this was unfounded. At just a tad past half volume the sound is too loud for normal listening.

What also is very impressive is that at music remains intact (nice bass, vocals, etc) even at very low volume. I don't feel the need to turn up the volume to hear all the details.

Lastly, the unit is not only designed, but also manufactured in Denmark. I have nothing against Far East factories, but when I have the option, I prefer to buy Made in USA, Japan, or EU.
Hey. Hey. Recently I' ve been thinking a great deal about replacing my current setup - Bluesound Node 2i + Marantz pm6006 with the Lyngdorf TDAI 1120. The speakers are Dali Zensor 5 + REL t5i. The reason is mainly RoomPerfect and possibly the Lyngdorf amp itself. My living room is about 18 m2 and the acoustics are not great - despite the furniture, carpet and other things there is still quite a lot of echo in the room with an unfortunate impact on the sound. Subwoofer placement is also a big problem, I can never seem to get it right. I'm wondering how big your room is and how it is in terms of acoustics. And would you recommend I go ahead and get a Lyngdorf? Thanks a lot, comments from others are much appreciated.
 

craigd

Well-known Member
Hey. Hey. Recently I' ve been thinking a great deal about replacing my current setup - Bluesound Node 2i + Marantz pm6006 with the Lyngdorf TDAI 1120. The speakers are Dali Zensor 5 + REL t5i. The reason is mainly RoomPerfect and possibly the Lyngdorf amp itself. My living room is about 18 m2 and the acoustics are not great - despite the furniture, carpet and other things there is still quite a lot of echo in the room with an unfortunate impact on the sound. Subwoofer placement is also a big problem, I can never seem to get it right. I'm wondering how big your room is and how it is in terms of acoustics. And would you recommend I go ahead and get a Lyngdorf? Thanks a lot, comments from others are much appreciated.

Have you got a floor plan and/or photos of the room? Dimensions?

RoomPerfect will help with a lot of issues but you need to get speaker placement as close to optimal as you can first. Room correction won’t help for example with flutter echo.
 

Hikoki

Member
Have you got a floor plan and/or photos of the room? Dimensions?

RoomPerfect will help with a lot of issues but you need to get speaker placement as close to optimal as you can first. Room correction won’t help for example with flutter echo.
Hi and thanks for the quick reply. The room accoustics aren't that bad really, I have used the wrong word. What I meant was the room had a bit longer reverbation time. I just know from practical experience that when I use my other, much smaller room to listen to music, magic happens and everything sounds just right. And it just takes a clap of hands to hear the difference between the two rooms. There is hardly any reverbation time in the small one.
Anyway, I would love to use my bigger room for my main system. I need the space. The room is roughly 5m by 3.6m and the walls are brick. See the photo for the layout and furniture.
Thanks a lot for any comments.
 

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craigd

Well-known Member
The positioning is quite compromised. The TDAI-1120 could definitely work in this space with your kit.

However, I think shifting things around so the speakers are on the long wall and almost right up against it with the sofa pulled as much as you can tolerate - say about 1m from the rear wall if possible. Sub between the speakers. Move the glass table NOT in front of the speakers. A couple of shelves with books on behind the sofa or something else to break up things a bit.

Looks like there is a TV in there on computer - it’s sound could be fed through the TDAI too.
 

craigd

Well-known Member
This is the smaller of my two rooms (3.4m x 3.8m). Quite poor positioning (speakers too close to the walls) and listening position against rear wall.
584CCE03-2383-433A-98E0-B9E91C13277C.jpeg


RoomPerfect does not a perfect, but decent job of, sorting this out considering how everything is positioned.

Bear in mind there are also 10” woofers in each of the front corners too.
 

Hikoki

Member
Craigd, thanks so much for the interesting tips on moving furniture to improve the situation. I'll definitely try some of them, but since I'm far from young, I don't like to change things☺️. I like your room, it seems to me that by the looks of it it could work well without any room correction, no? Thanks a lot
 

craigd

Well-known Member
The bass is all over the place with no room correction.
 

EightSixEight

Standard Member
Hey. Hey. Recently I' ve been thinking a great deal about replacing my current setup - Bluesound Node 2i + Marantz pm6006 with the Lyngdorf TDAI 1120. The speakers are Dali Zensor 5 + REL t5i. The reason is mainly RoomPerfect and possibly the Lyngdorf amp itself. My living room is about 18 m2 and the acoustics are not great - despite the furniture, carpet and other things there is still quite a lot of echo in the room with an unfortunate impact on the sound. Subwoofer placement is also a big problem, I can never seem to get it right. I'm wondering how big your room is and how it is in terms of acoustics. And would you recommend I go ahead and get a Lyngdorf? Thanks a lot, comments from others are much appreciated.
Prior the using RP I was never able to get the sub and the KEFs to sound to my liking consistently. Some songs sounded OK, but lots didn’t.

The Lyngdorf ”fixed” all that and I’m very happy with it.
 

Hikoki

Member
Prior the using RP I was never able to get the sub and the KEFs to sound to my liking consistently. Some songs sounded OK, but lots didn’t.

The Lyngdorf ”fixed” all that and I’m very happy with it.
Hi and thanks for the response. Sounds encouraging. I did try moving things around a bit in my room as craigd suggested but I didn’t feel like it had much impact on the SQ. Unfortunately, pulling the sofa away from the wall is out of the question so it is placed between the speakers, which I'm not sure is the best solution. Did you try moving things around to get a better sound before actually bringing the Lyngdorf into the system? Thanks
 

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
It is impossible to install a system that will reproduce sound faithfully in a domestic sized room without measuring and correcting it. Some frequencies will be heard 2-3 times too loud while other will be far too quiet.

One demonstration that makes this clear is an A/B comparison of a system with RoomPerfect on/off.

You can recreate the accuracy of good headphones without RoomPerfect regardless of how much you spend on traditional hifi.
 

Hikoki

Member
It is impossible to install a system that will reproduce sound faithfully in a domestic sized room without measuring and correcting it. Some frequencies will be heard 2-3 times too loud while other will be far too quiet.

One demonstration that makes this clear is an A/B comparison of a system with RoomPerfect on/off.

You can recreate the accuracy of good headphones without RoomPerfect regardless of how much you spend on traditional hifi.
Hi Rob. You meant to say´ You CANNOT recreate the accuracy of good headphones without RoomPerfect´..........., right ? Are you suggesting that it is not absolutely necessary to try rearranging things in my room for RoomPerfect to do its job well? Because unfortunately there´s a limit to the changes I can make, and no matter what I do, it doesn´t seem to work much. For example, the sub placement is a nightmare.
Thanks
 

Paul7777x

Member
Hi Rob. You meant to say´ You CANNOT recreate the accuracy of good headphones without RoomPerfect´..........., right ? Are you suggesting that it is not absolutely necessary to try rearranging things in my room for RoomPerfect to do its job well? Because unfortunately there´s a limit to the changes I can make, and no matter what I do, it doesn´t seem to work much. For example, the sub placement is a nightmare.
Thanks

Have you a photo of the set up from your listener get position?

That will help with any suggestions.

Also I concur with the 1120s ability to invisibly and seamlessly merge subwoofers, even those in less than ideal positions.
 

Rob Sinden

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
There is no substitute for placing speakers and your seating position perfectly, but once you have done this RoomPerfect will typically still transform sound quality. When you are using RoomPerfect you have the option of placing speakers against a wall and getting great results.

If you can arrange a home trial, run RoomPerfect correctly and turn it on/off and the difference should be very obvious.
 

Tom @ Cinehome

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
I'm sorry to post this on this thread, but otherwise can't think of another option..

We had an enquiry today through our website contact form from a client interested in a home trial of a TDAI-1120. If the client is monitoring this thread, please could they get in touch via PM or Email as the Email address that was provided by the client is unfortunately incorrect.

Thank you. Tom
 

EightSixEight

Standard Member
Hi and thanks for the response. Sounds encouraging. I did try moving things around a bit in my room as craigd suggested but I didn’t feel like it had much impact on the SQ. Unfortunately, pulling the sofa away from the wall is out of the question so it is placed between the speakers, which I'm not sure is the best solution. Did you try moving things around to get a better sound before actually bringing the Lyngdorf into the system? Thanks
I did not rearrange any furniture but did try to position the KEFs about 5 feet away from back and side walls. Lyngdorf actually recommends them being flat against the wall, but I didn’t like the look of that in my room. The sub is centered, but in a very bad position: hidden inside the (never used) fireplace with a bunch of vinyl LP sitting on a small support in front of it.

Now, on one hand I don’t believe in miracles and don’t want to make RP sound like that. But for me it worked and I love the sound.
 

LuniCycle

Active Member
SVS 3000 Pro Sub
I have been thinking about a sub since I got my 1120. Every time one pops up with positive remarks I have a look but this one doesn't seem to exist or perhaps it has different naming in different markets? The are a number in their 3000 series but no pro SVS 3000 Series. On a more general question is it worth having a sub with DSP with the 1120 because surely it does it for you? Never having delved into the world of subs I don't really know!
 

EightSixEight

Standard Member
I have been thinking about a sub since I got my 1120. Every time one pops up with positive remarks I have a look but this one doesn't seem to exist or perhaps it has different naming in different markets? The are a number in their 3000 series but no pro SVS 3000 Series. On a more general question is it worth having a sub with DSP with the 1120 because surely it does it for you? Never having delved into the world of subs I don't really know!
Correct, my typo. It is the SVS 3000 (the sealed one).

The beauty of the RP is that it integrates the sub with the speakers, unlike most other room DSPs.

The sub complements my speakers very nicely, getting all the sound under 70Hz.

What is impressive, for me at least, is that there is no booming, or frivolous bass, just music. I can hear and even feel the bass, but it is super tight and musical.

It's almost as if the little Lyngdorf is defying the law of physics.
 
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