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Lumgen Radiance

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Thunder, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. Thunder

    Thunder
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    Looks pretty damn awsome :) . True 10 bit pathway using the Realta chip set and enough inputs to sink a battleship :D But at an estimated RRP of $5999.00 which will no doubt translate to about £5000.00 will be way out of my price range for a scaler :( But maybe its a Crystalio II slayer :rotfl:
     
  2. Welwynnick

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  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  4. Thunder

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    Well it would be nice if they could get close to the exchange rate e.g £3500.00, but it looks as if I may just have to pick up a financially well endowed members second hand cast off :D
     
  5. Welwynnick

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    It looks like there will be many scalers available in the near(ish) future using the Realta or Gennum chips that will be able to do proper 1080i de-interlacing. DVDO appear to be the only exception at the moment, but that can't last for long. It sounds like Lumagen will be going for the top of the pile with the RadianceXT, but have hinted that lesser models with fewer features may follow. What they are proposing will not have an internal SDI input or analogue output. So CRT users will really need an external DAC, and naughty box or SDI interface. Not sure there are going to be quite so many CRT users in the future, though.......

    Nick
     
  6. Mark_a

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    Seems sensible to me to drop 'analogue out' and 'SDI in' as they must being used by a minority, and shrinking further every day as folks go over to HDMI and HD displays. Having said that, for £5000, or whatever, the last thing you should be expecting is for them to be removing functions. Hell, I think it should be gold plated with diamond buttons for that price.

    How long before we get a 'DVI' level version (though with HDMI, of course instead of DVI, but you know what I mean) at a more sensible price I wonder?

    Regards

    Mark
     
  7. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    I don't think there'll be a DVI type version, anything with HQV processing is going to be a premium priced product full-stop. Maybe different configurations will be available, but I doubt there would be any sense in building one for a few hundred less that nearly does the job. We're looking at a £5,000 product afterall.

    The likes of NEC and Optoma and others who have similar processors coming out are all quite generic OEMs essentially! They will all produce a similar image with functionality limited to what the HQV supporting chipsets have on-board. There is nothing by the manufacturer other than to put a box and some connections around the chip. The Lumagen Radiance works much the same way as the current Vision line does in that the Visions have a Silicon Image deinterlacer, but no sil co-processor or scaling. All this is Lumagen powered, with a suite of calibration tools and Lumagen's own 10-bit datapath dragging the best out of the chip it is using. The Radiance works on the same ideals, a HQV basic architecture but all integrated into Lumagen's own software and hardware. Lumagen scaling, Lumagen tools for gamma adjustment, y/c delay etc etc. I guess this is also why it's taking longer to market than the other more HQV-in-a-box products.

    I don't think the analogue output box or SDI inputs are going to be relatively expensive, especially when bought with the processor. A bit of a non-point really, it's just interesting that it is external to the case design. When we're talking about ultimate scaling solutions like this though, we're not talking about putting together something to a price. This thing is being put together to produce an image better than any other processor can, so if you gotta pay extra for your specific connection then so be it!! If Gordon can get this to UK stores for less than £5,000 then he's done well IMO.
     
  8. X3ELS

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    Don't forget that all of the 'first to market' HQV products are all using Realtas development board, basically all that is needed to be added are the relevant mux stages for determining ins and outs and away you go, the products will all be very similar in their performance and functionality.

    Radiance will, to my knowledge, be the first scaler using just the HQV chipset, everything else will be Lumagens own, so expect far superior functionality and calibration options (multipoint gamma curves etc) as well as scaling abilities beyond anything we have to date. if you want the best wait :smashin:
     
  9. rockhard

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    Vantage from CalibreUK.com based on the HQV / TERANEX on a chip set was going for $3K with 2 HDMI inputs and throughput digital audio plus optional configuration which adds 2 more HDMI inputs and or Broadcast SDI input and output .

    These guys also had the full PQ anywhere digital geometry found in the Silicon - Optix box ( chip set designers ) .

    All this for $3K was a tremendous deal which was on display at CEDIA show in a side by side comparison with $60K broadcast TERANEX box and NEC $2K scaler featuring HQV platform and dam if I could see any difference...

    Yamaha had there newest single chip DLP with latest Dark Chip featuring HQV scaling onboard at $13K ...

    For a run down of show hi-lights visit Projector Central -

    http://www.projectorcentral.com/cedia_2005.htm
     
  10. Welwynnick

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    Rockhard, could you explain what you meant by that? Nick
     
  11. madshi

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    The $60K box does have one important advantage: It does motion compensated deinterlacing of video sources, while the HQV only does motion adaptive deinterlacing. However, you will notice the difference only with video content (sports, TV shows, etc), not with movies.
     
  12. gandley

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    Man this site is now running killer slow, like being back on dial-up. Thought they were gonna sort this by adding a new server?

    anyhow even the mighty DragonFly is supposed to be coming out a fair bit under £5000 which is a stupid price, even if you have money to burn.
    And the dragonfly has also added features to the reference board.

    £3500 is about the ceiling for an outboard scaler.
     
  13. rockhard

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    "Rockhard, could you explain what you meant by that? Nick"

    It is there proprietary scaling software which gives full geometry correction while maintaining full resolve unlike keystone projector correction which sacrafices it. This is why alot of PJ's now have optical lense shift .The Silicon-Optix box demonstrated a picture shot from floor under the end table at 45 degree angle showing correct geometric picture.

    The Terranex Box does have broadcast scaling advatages over the HQV but there is different approach needed for Home theatre display compared with broadcast needs. There is already coming down the pike a newer HQV chip with more improved scaling .

    Yes this site does have issues with errors when trying to post to it now...:(
     
  14. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    The demo of Terranex v HQV product at the party was nothing to write home about. Like most dems at shows you can never be sure what you are seeing. That demo was mostly about de-interlacing. There is more to any scaler than the chipset....I thought we'd done this to death.....implimentation of algorithms, defaults used, surrounding circuits.....alot of other stuff makes these things work.

    Gordon
     
  15. Welwynnick

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  16. rockhard

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    Yes Jim Peterson will undoutably have the best HQV based scaler on the planet with his refined algorithims but at $6K will it be that much better then say the Silicon-Optix one at $2K ? hell for that price difference I can get the Autoscoping Panamorph lense and software thrown in from Silicon-Optix ...
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Rockhard,

    Apart from hopefuly having the best mage quality the Lumagen piece will hopefully have the most configureability and useability. How much folk value this is a personal decision. We'll find out early next year.

    Lumagen make a range of products. I see no reason why this will stop in the future. I'd also suggest that to be able to make a High Quality affordable scaler you need to understand how to make the best so you can work out where cost savings can be made without compromise to performance.

    For many folk there may actually be no benefit to HQV or indeed Genum based units at this time. That is going to change in next 12 months though.

    Gordon
     
  18. rockhard

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    Yes there is already a newer TERANEX chip coming down the pike with improved preformance ...
     
  19. madshi

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    Is that true? In what way is it improved?
     
  20. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    MADSHI: There are always newer devices in development. However, I do not know of newer, more powerful HQV chipset. There are newer, better, more efficient algorithms being worked on to run on HQV platform. However the beauty of these things is they are firmware updateable. Even if there was a new more powerful HQV chip have a think for second....the last one was announced over a year ago and there are still no shipping processors with them in....Wait 12 months then no doubt we'll have someone speculating that "there's a newer more powerful chipset being developed"

    My comment that Rockhard quoted was actually about the fact in the UK we don;t have ANY broadcast 1080i HD material except the limited stuff from Euro1080channel. However, in NEXT 12 MONTHS we'll get SkyHD and other broadcasters usng their platform as well as possibly HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

    Gordon
     
  21. madshi

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    Well, I'd love to get motion compensated deinterlacing. But I guess that will be HQV chip version 3.0 or 4.0... :(
     
  22. mwebb

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    According to the HQV website the current processor supports motion adaptive deinterlacing.

    Mark W.
     
  23. madshi

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    It better should. Motion adaptive deinterlacing of ED and HD signals is a must for the new scalers coming out now. However, motion compensated deinterlacing is a whole step above motion adaptive deinterlacing.
     
  24. mwebb

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    Showing my ignorance, but given the blurb on the HQV web site, I don't understand the difference.

    Mark W.
     
  25. Welwynnick

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    I don’t think many people do. My understanding is that motion adaptive is where the de-interlacing process used is dynamically selected according to the nature of the motion. The new lines or pixels generated will be drawn from actual video data in the preceding line or field, hopefully on a per-pixel basis. Motion compensated is completely different and much more difficult. The de-interlacer attempts to read the picture and analyse the motion. It will then try and interpolate where an object will be and generate new video data to recreate what would have been seen with an original progressive image. This takes much more processing power and is much more expensive. I think that’s what the real Terranex Xantus and the like do at a very high price. That’s my limited understanding of it, and if anyone else knows better, it would be very interesting to hear. Exactly what motion predictive is, and whether it differs from motion compensated, I’ve no idea. I dare say this capability will percolate down to domestic video one day, but to be honest I think what we can get with per-pixel motion adaptive and inverse telecine is more than satisfactory.
     
  26. mwebb

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    What do you make of the HQV web site at:


    HQV
     
  27. Welwynnick

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    There's no great new functional technology with HQV or VSX. It's just that they can do per-pixel motion adaptive de-interalacing (amongst other things) with high definition interlaced video. Existing processors have been limited to doing that with standard definition video. That's the big deal.

    Nick
     

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