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Lumagen Vision Pro - When in Europe?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Garincha, Apr 28, 2003.

  1. Garincha

    Garincha
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    HI all,
    been overseas again and saw this scaler (on panny plasma - still impressive even postprocessed from panny and on Barco 7 - huge performance!!)

    Anyone knows when it will hit our streets?
    GordonF maybe?

    Regards
     
  2. ReTrO

    ReTrO
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    I think it is awaiting CE certification.
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Should hear tonight or tomorrow if it passed CE certification. All being well pricing should be finalised in a few days. I am going to make it..........competative :wink:

    Gordon
     
  4. robfitzp

    robfitzp
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    Gordon,

    Have you got a UK price for the Vision yet?

    Is it a worthwhile addition to a HS10?

    Cheers
    Rob.
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The Vision is already on my web site and is available from dealers, including myself

    The Pro has passed CE approval. Initial units shold be in country next week. UK SRP is set at £1799.

    I have not tried one with HS10 so can't comment. I have to go see a client with an HS10 for ISF and final tweak of his audio system. If I get a chance I'll take one and see.

    Gordon
     
  6. robfitzp

    robfitzp
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    Didn't see a price on your site - will have another look.

    £1799 - Ouch - how come the $ sign changes to a £ but the numbers don't move......not a dig at you, a comment on the world in general.

    Would be interested in the results.

    Cheers
    Rob.
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    They are $1895....so how do you make £1799 a dollar to pounds change? Also not sure why you say ouch. Do you know of any other products with those specs and performance that are less?

    I have explained in much detail how why pricing is different in UK compared to USA, but I'll do it again.......

    Many US companies do not set up themselves for worldwide distribution. Often they start as direct sellers themselves in order to be competative and create a customer base. The margin required for direct selling is a lot less than that for retail or indeed international distribution and retail.....

    Lumagen are such a company. I, and the UK dealers, are working on a lower margin than is usual for this type of device. With not enough margin for distribution I have to buy at rate xxxx. To which is added, shipping and then duty. I then have to make enough money to pay my insurance, rates, staff wages and possibly make a small profit. Also factored in must be cost of banking internationally and the fluctuation of currency market. The dealer then has to make enough money to want to stock the thing.....

    The benefit of the devices I distribute is that I understand the product and am carrying out training with the dealers so they can actually give good advice and get best out of the things. The reality is that the Dollar price should be more (on this product) not that the UK price should be less.(imho)

    I am looking forward to getting them in.I'm sure you'll get more reports back from happy owners. As we speak I am considering how to do a stand at CEDIA UK to show these and the KeyDig devices. If it happens I'll be glad to see everyone and buy a beer afterwards!

    Gordon
     
  8. ReTrO

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    Look forward to seeing you there if all goes well then. :)
     
  9. robfitzp

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    Hi Gordon,

    Had a brief look at their site, thought it was $1800 not £1895 - my mistake - but not a massive difference.

    The points you are making all sound valid and reasonable but 'someone else should be paying more' is a difficult argument to win IMHO whatever the product - like for like it looks expensive. Like I said, not a dig at you in any way, just a comment on the world in general, e.g. cars.

    Does your price include setting the thing up properly?

    Still can't find a price for the normal Vision on your site - you have the SRP but not your price. What are you charging?

    Cheers
    Rob.
     
  10. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Rob,

    My price includes me installing. It is £1175. I will not undermine my dealers by discounting below them. I actually want to create a base of knowledgeable dealers and undercutting them isn't a good business plan.....

    I know that my idea that the USA should pay more for their products is a toughy....it's exaclty what happens though. Just look at TAW and how the Rock went from $2000 to over $4000. Yes, the thing was upgraded but the main difference was TAW stopped dealing direct and created a distribution network which had to be paid for.......This is not to denegrate the TAW scalers as they are quality products.

    Gordon
     
  11. uncle eric

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    Now that I've got to see :eek: :D

    Also, the quoted $1895 USD does not include state tax so add an average of 8% here as well.
     
  12. Andrew_B

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    With regard to pricing and margins on Lumagen and other products supplied by direct sell manufacturers, surely their initial forecasts would have been based on higher manufacturing costs from low volume production. If a distribution chain is developed, increased demand requires higher volume production with an associated reduction in costs, which should then fund the distribution chain.

    I'm not knocking UK pricing of US kit, but a manufacturer who chooses to handle their own distribution should understand the basic principle that dealers need to make a profit too, wherever they are!

    UK dealers create the impression that they are buying in at retail and have to add margin on top, resulting in a near dollar for pound price - is this really the case? If these direct sell manufacturers also have distributors in the US, they MUST be providing a margin to them - or they'd have to sell at a higher price than the manufacturer. Isn't it possible that these manufacturers 'know the score' and are pulling a fast one on UK dealers?

    Andrew_B
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Andrew: Believe me many US manufacturers DO NOT think there is a market outside USA. Also a lot of these guys are just folk who build something for themselves then try to sell it. They are not business men but are geeks! Which is good becaue they make CLASS products....just price them badly.

    Also USA dealers expect higher margin than UK dealers BUT then give BIGGER discounts. Do I pay the same as a US dealer to buy......if you take import duty and shipping in to account....YES!

    It wont always be like this and the companies I deal with, at least, are thinking in much more global terms now.

    Gordon

    P.S. I know how I deal with my suppliers and dealers...I am sure you are right about some others though. At the end of the day dealers have to sell based on what they buy at. As do Distributors. There are some products I sell that I could buy , for less, by importing direct from dealers in USA..... I look at bigger picture though.
     
  14. talisman house

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    I was told by the the us. maker of this product that the chip in both models he produced were in fact the same the silicon image company use in the iscan ultra.He went on to say that the only major difference in the vision and the pro was connectivity was increased.This was said to me several months ago.Is this incorrect?
     
  15. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Yes it is incorrect.

    The only similarity between the Lumagens and the Iscan's is the SIL504 de-interlacing chip. Lumagen use different video decoders and a to d's before the sil, as well as adding proprietry scaling algorithms aftterwards.

    Gordon
     
  16. talisman house

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    You have evaded the question, What is the major difference between the vision and the vision pro besides connectivity to warrant such a price differential
     
  17. ReTrO

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    Seems to be RS232 control also.
     
  18. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Sorry, I thought you were talking about difference between Iscan and Lumagen products. Have re-read your question and I must have been having some temporary word blindness.

    You are correct the difference between vision and pro is solely: upgradeable (by customer) firmware, Rack mountable design, added inputs, BNC connections instead of RCA, RS232 control.

    Picture quality wise they should be very similar

    Gordon
     
  19. Miron

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    Gordon,
    which chips are used in Lumagen scalers ?
     
  20. talisman house

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    So Gordon the facts are that a lot more is being charged for very little I think thats called a rip off,is it not?
     
  21. lmccauley

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    Talisman,

    I don't know if it's intentional, but your posts come across as very accusatory.

    As Gordon commented: "Do you know of any other products with those specs and performance that are less [than £1799]?"

    Instead of £1799 being a rip-off for the Pro, maybe £1175 is a bargain for the ordinary model...

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  22. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Thanks Liam,

    Talisman: As noted above the Pro is good value when compared to the competition. I don't see anyone holding a gun to your head asking you to buy a Pro....or indeed a Vision.

    I don't make the rules.....perhaps Lumagen are selling the Vision at a much reduced margin to gain market share, perhaps they aren't and you end up paying several hundred more for a bigger case, more sockets and functionality. View then make up your own mind.

    I certainly don't think that either product is a rip off.

    Gordon
     
  23. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    in fact Lumagen are really shaking up the sub £2k scaler market, both here and abroad. New before have we had so much, of quality, for so little money and it seems so damn easy to use.
     
  24. DEO

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    Beekeeper, I can agree with you.

    However for Pioneer owners surely the (late again) Key Digital card for sub £2,000 will give the best quality?

    Dave
     
  25. talisman house

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    Ok. just dream on if you dont like facing facts
     
  26. Nic Rhodes

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    possibly for the plasma it is designed for but the visions (both) are aimed at many products, inc your (?) plasmas. Re quality we will have to wait and see but KD do make some quality kit.

    Personally I have gone KD over all other options (Tag inc). The closest competition was from Lumagen Pro and Vigetec Dune. The Lumagen I think was the best bang for the buck option.

    To those of us who have stuff from the Quadscan Pro era, everything has moved on big time.

    To those who foolishly think the pro is expensive, just cost up a PROPER 300 MHz video switch and then do your sums again, preferably one with BNCs. Then no matter how you look at things, the pro is a bargain.
     
  27. alwyn

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    OH! Do tell us wise one,how much does a 300mhz video switch cost and how many do you get for £1700.
    ps. How much are you charging for your honey,I bet its expensive
     
  28. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    Ah, thanks for letting me know that my opinion is dreaming, and yours is a fact. Otherwise I would have been clueless about your superior status.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  29. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I just give my honey away to friends who post worthwhile things here
     
  30. lmccauley

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    Alwyn and Talisman,

    Are you both the same person?

    You both have similar opinions, a similar style of posting, live in the Southwest and own high-end equipment.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     

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