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Lumagen HDP help!

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by zAndy1, Jul 9, 2004.

  1. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Hi,
    Does anyone have a Lumagen HDP and a Panny TH42PHD6? If so would you mind posting your settings as I'm struggling to get a decent picture. If I set the lumagen to 768p I get a black bar down the right hand side of the screen. If I use Avia pixel cropping and set it how I think it should be I get some funny patterns down the right of the screen. I don't know what I'm doing to be honest, when I set my PC to 1024 x 768 it fills the screen perfectly so I don't know why this should be any different? Mind you there doesn't seem to be a horizontal rez value to change and is I set the vertical res to 768 and the display to 16:9 how does it know it hasn't got square pixels and therefore to set the horizontal res to 1024?
    Any help MUCH appreciated!

    Cheers,
    Andy
     
  2. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Bit more info, if I set the output to 720p then the picture fills the screen, no bar on the right. Why 768p causes the black bar is beyond me. I think I need to change some more settings besides the vertical res but I don't know which or what the values should be.

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  3. kaspj

    kaspj
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    Hi Andy,

    Can't help you at the moment (I have the same panel but won't be adding a Lumagen for a few months unfortunately). Perhaps you can try over on the AVS Forums in the Video Processors/Lumagen thread?

    JP.
     
  4. rscott4563

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    Hi Andy, have you simply tried using either the Lumagen or Panasonic controls to reposition the image to get rid of the black bar?

    Ryan
     
  5. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Ryan,
    Sounds like it would work but I don't understand why it's necessary to do that, I'll give it a try though. Something else, if I use the pixel cropping test on avia to set the top left and bottom right input sizes, seems to be fine. Then if I just play that test it's cropping lots of info from the picture again.
    Basically I want to be able to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping. Isn't that the whole point of an external scaler i.e. to bypass the (inferior) scaler in the display device? Why pay upwards of £1000 for a scaler and then use the displays scaler as well, doesn't make sense to me! I think I'll try DVI (when I get a DVI board) as in theory the lumagen should be able to sense that 1024 x 768 is the optimum resolution and use that.

    Cheers for your help

    Andy.
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Andy,

    First off sorry your are having problems. Have you called your dealer?

    Pixel perfect mapping wth analogue signal is not always the best. Scalers can increase image quality due to many other reasons..... The timing of the output signal affects where/when the pixels are drawn etc. You should also remember they are beta units so the test patterns that will allow you to confirm pixel matching are not in place.

    Now then....

    Pixel cropping/overscan of incoming signal is adjusted on a per input and per aspect ratio basis.
    menu
    in
    adj
    size
    t/l make adjustments ....should be obvious how then press OK and choose the chosen aspect ratio only
    b/r make adjsutments ....should be obvious how then press OK and choose chosen aspect ratio (it'll be the one you are using or ALL....don't choose all)

    To adjust output timings....

    MENU
    0
    9
    4
    3

    You will now get list of active pixels, total pixes front and back porches etc. You can make adjustments to these figures then press 9 to execute. If the image is worse or disappears just wait 10 secs and the old settings will return. If it's good then press OK. Using this service menu you can adjust timings to get it to do what you want...hopefully.

    If you get really lost call your dealer and ask him to give you my mobile number.

    G
     
  7. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Gordon, no need to apologise, it's probably just me being stupid! I just expected to set it to 768p and voila a 1:1 pixel mapped image, perhaps that was being slightly naive! I'm confused about the hres to be honest, there's no option to select hres so if I select a vres of 768 and 16:9 aspect ratio does that mean the lumagen is defaulting the hres to 1366 or thereabouts? The only way it would set itself to a hres of 1024 is if it knew the display had non square pixels. Also I presume there are specific values that work best with the TH42PHD6 i.e. like powerstrip timing values? Anyway, I'm sure I'll get to the bottom of it and as you say it is beta firmware so it will undoubtedly improve , think the hres option will help for a start!

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  8. rscott4563

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    Sorry I got the wrong end of your stick, I thought you were using DVI already :oops:

    Anyway the way I understand it and the way it worked with my original vision (analogue only) was that you couldn't set the HRES this was set automatically and was over sampled so if you set 720p the horizontal resolution may have actually been something like 1800, also I found and Lumagen recommend that over sampling the vertical resolution is better than 1:1 mapping, due to increasing the S/N ratio (or something like that), I found 1152p gave the best picture on my 50" (1366x768).

    Ryan
     
  9. Joe Fernand

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    Hello Andy

    01. Assumptions - forget it; assume nothing when working with this technology.

    I know most of us don't like to read them but there is a decent book of words included with the Lumagen kit. Have a read - it explains a fair bit about what it does and how to achieve optimum settings with your system.

    02. 1:1 Pixel Mapping - as Gordon says this is one option for achieving the optimum result in your system; though not necessarily the one you will find works best for you; and yes you do have to ensure your plasma is not rescaling a 768P signal (no matter if its Analogue or Digital)..

    03. Analogue or Digital - no matter which connection you use these are not Plug and Play products; you have to learn how to manage the Processor and your Plasma and how they interact with each other.

    04. 720P vs 768P - the Plasma sees 720P as a Video signal and has a set of rules its applies accordingly and it sees 768P as a PC signal and applies a different set of rules; hence the picture shift.

    I'll be in touch in the morning.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  10. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Thanks for the advice Joe, believe me I have read the manual, I think I'm making progress to be honest but I haven't got a clue whether the plasma is rescaling it or not. Anyway, I know these things take time , just wanna make sure I'm not doing something stupid and compromising the performance really.

    Cheers,
    Andy
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Andy,

    Managed to get on line again briefly.

    The horizontal res is changeable on the new units in the MENU 0 9 4 3 section I posted about.

    G
     
  12. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Gordon,
    I know you've offered to talk to me on the phone about this (much appreciated!) but seriously it's a Sunday and I don't want to take up any of your time when you're supposed to be off work. So.. here's where I'm at. I've got an SDI RP82 connected to the Lumagen, I've also got Sky+ connected by s-video. I've ran the AVIA pixel cropping test and altered the input size ok (top left/bottom right). I've used the pic pos/size on the plasma to resize and position it so it looks right. The DVD looks I have to say, fantastic, although it looks fantastic over normal component video as well (very good DVD player for the money!). As for Sky, initially when I switched to the Sky input on the lumagen I had an inch or so bars at the right and left, used the output size on the lumagen to alter that using the TV guide on Sky as a reference screen. I know have a bar down the left hand side (some of them green) on certain channels on sky (e.g. Flaunt music channel). Presume I just need to alter the overscan slightly. Sky looks ok, not as good as I hoped but not bad. There still seems to be artefacts (shimmering/stepping) which I hoped would be cleaned up. To be honest I'm not sure whether the panny is rescaling the picture and i'm not sure how to find out. Another 'issue' is that when I use my HTPC TV out (s-video) I have a border all around the desktop, can be fixed by using zoom on the lumagen but not sure why it's there to be honest. I'm getting there and I don't suppose there's much point messing about too much until the production firmware is released anyway. Thanks for your interest in my 'problems' and offer to speak on the phone but it is a Sunday and I don't want to hassle you as I know you're busy.

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  13. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    ok, the horizontal res is set to 3000 odd , if I set it to 1024 I get a picture only at the far right of the screen. At that point I figured I'd never understand how this thing works and decided to leave it alone! At the risk of sounding naive, surely there must be some specific settings in that 'menu 0 9 4 3' menu that are optimum for the Panny 42" HD plasma? Gordon, when are you next in my neck of the woods as I feel a visit from yourself would be well worth it!

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  14. saabfan

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    After setting HRES and VRES in menu 0943, hit OK. You then use the POS (position) menu under OUT of the lumagen to get your position right. It will not changes the HRES and VRES but will change your front Porch etc... settings.
    I also have a RP 82 + SDI into Lumagen HDP driving my MXE 433 at native rate (on DVI input and RGBHV input).
     
  15. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    But what should hres and vres be? I'm assuming vres should be 768 and thought hres should be 1024. Also the manual says to use the display controls to alter the position/size not the lumagen ones (ideally anyway). Thanks for the advice btw..

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  16. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Not much time again....You can use display controls to adjust position rather than scalers if you want. I suspect the reason that they advise to use display controls is that wild adjustments of some of these timing paramaters might cause some display devices to loose image completely.

    Andy I'll try to speak with you tomorrow to explain a bt about what is happening and why...

    Gordon
     
  17. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Any new firmware imminent? Any idea when the production release will be? Still don't think I've got it set up correctly, Gordon I'm serious when are you in my area as I think a visit/calibration would be a very good idea!

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  18. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Andy,

    No news when next firmware will come out. Production firmware is several weeks away I guess.

    Email me your address and contact details and I'll check diary

    Gordon
     

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