Lumagen HDP and PAL DVD

tausifs

Well-known Member
is the lumagen good at detecting the PAL 2:2 pulldown ? I want to feed it 576i over HDMI so it properly scales up to 1080p50.
 

NicolasB

Distinguished Member
is the lumagen good at detecting the PAL 2:2 pulldown ? I want to feed it 576i over HDMI so it properly scales up to 1080p50.
It's pretty good. In "auto" mode it tends to err towards film rather than towards video, so for a DVD movie you can be pretty sure it will stay in film mode all the time. For video material it will occasionally slip into film mode, but it's fairly reliable.

You do, of course, have the option to lock it into Film or Video mode rather than having it decide on the fly; I quite often do this unless I'm watching something which is actually a mixture of film and video (like a "making of" documentary).
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
It's pretty good. In "auto" mode it tends to err towards film rather than towards video, so for a DVD movie you can be pretty sure it will stay in film mode all the time. For video material it will occasionally slip into film mode, but it's fairly reliable.

You do, of course, have the option to lock it into Film or Video mode rather than having it decide on the fly; I quite often do this unless I'm watching something which is actually a mixture of film and video (like a "making of" documentary).
Thanks, BTW which DVD player do you use and how do you have it connected ?
 

NonPayingMember

Previously Liam @ Prog AV
Make sure you are using a DVD player which is outputting the original 576i via HDMI. Denons have been guilty of for some reason deinterlacing and then reinterlacing for HDMI output and so even with the Lumagen correctly 2:2 it back together an artefact created by the Denon is already inherent in the signal.
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
Make sure you are using a DVD player which is outputting the original 576i via HDMI. Denons have been guilty of for some reason deinterlacing and then reinterlacing for HDMI output and so even with the Lumagen correctly 2:2 it back together an artefact created by the Denon is already inherent in the signal.
I am led to believe that the Sony S300 BD player has a source direct mode which outputs 576i for Pal DVD.

I am waiting for their profile 2.0 player (hopefully with wifi) which hopefully will do the same.

BDP-S350 when it becomes available is 'BD-Live ready', requiring a firmware update to access the interactive services
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
I am a little tempted to go for a s300, seeing as they seem to go for less than £150 used on the classifieds !
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
I am a little tempted to go for a s300, seeing as they seem to go for less than £150 used on the classifieds !
I had one and it's not a bad player apart from it's very slow with BD-J titles. It does have a "source direct" mode for 576i over HDMI and providing a wait of 3-4 minutes to power and load isn't an issue for you it may be worth a look. :)

AVI
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
Was the slowness why you got rid of your S300, or was it something else about it that bugged you ?

I had a Sharp HP20 BD player but sold it because of what I felt was white crush , that I found unbearable to watch, and I had diligently given it 2 fw updates. I have never seen white crush with my trusty HD-A1 HD-DVD player !

I ended up selling my Sharp at a loss of about £100. Once bitten , twice shy- I am now reluctant to buy a brand new BD player, should I have to sell it on for a similar loss.
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
Was the slowness why you got rid of your S300, or was it something else about it that bugged you ?

I had a Sharp HP20 BD player but sold it because of what I felt was white crush , that I found unbearable to watch, and I had diligently given it 2 fw updates. I have never seen white crush with my trusty HD-A1 HD-DVD player !

I ended up selling my Sharp at a loss of about £100. Once bitten , twice shy- I am now reluctant to buy a brand new BD player, should I have to sell it on for a similar loss.
My main reasons for getting rid were operational performance and HD audio codec support.

AVI
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
My main reasons for getting rid were operational performance and HD audio codec support.

AVI
could you elaborate on what exactly you mean by operational performance ? just the slowness or any pq issue too ?
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
could you elaborate on what exactly you mean by operational performance ? just the slowness or any pq issue too ?
Mainly slow loading BD-J heavy titles but also the player menu system was slow to respond to the remote commands.

AVI
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
anyone using the lumagen to upscale panny bd30's 576p hdmi to 1080p, look any good/bad ?

I just remembered that with my HD-A1 outputing a NTSC disc at 480i over component, I saw macroblocking. This makes me wonder whether the Lumagen could cause macroblocking when fed 576i over HDMI.
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
I just remembered that with my HD-A1 outputing a NTSC disc at 480i over component, I saw macroblocking. This makes me wonder whether the Lumagen could cause macroblocking when fed 576i over HDMI.

It difficult to say without knowing if it was a source compression issue and what else was happening to the signal and to what display. As the old saying goes you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.... :)

If SD DVD performance is critical and you don't want to spend a lot I would suggest looking at an Oppo as a transport for DVD playback.

AVI
 

tausifs

Well-known Member
It difficult to say without knowing if it was a source compression issue and what else was happening to the signal and to what display. As the old saying goes you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.... :)

If SD DVD performance is critical and you don't want to spend a lot I would suggest looking at an Oppo as a transport for DVD playback.

AVI
When I played the same SD disc at 1080i via HDMI, there was absolutely no macroblocking to be seen with the lumagen deinterlacing to 1080p24, but there was if it was fed 480i over component. Does this suggest anything to you ?

I was watching on a 1080p pioneer plasma in dot-by-dot mode.
 

NicolasB

Distinguished Member
This makes me wonder whether the Lumagen could cause macroblocking when fed 576i over HDMI.
That would surprise me. Macroblocking can be the result of buggy MPEG2 decoding or (more likely) an over-compressed signal, but both of those possibilities happen well upstream of the scaler. If anything, Lumagen's proprietary scaling method tends to make macro-blocking slightly less obvious than most other scaling algorithms do.
 

NonPayingMember

Previously Liam @ Prog AV
Would surprise me too. I have done many systems using Arcam and Pioneer players at 480i/576i HDMI with no such issues. There are some Oppo players I believe which perform well, as I mention above there are some Denons which do not, I have also had half decent results with Panasonic DVDrs. I would guess it is down to how the player is sending out the 576i signal at what processes are occurring on the way that might be causing this macroblocking.
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
When I played the same SD disc at 1080i via HDMI, there was absolutely no macroblocking to be seen with the lumagen deinterlacing to 1080p24, but there was if it was fed 480i over component. Does this suggest anything to you ?

I was watching on a 1080p pioneer plasma in dot-by-dot mode.
Not really as I don't use component video from the A1. Out of interest have to tried the same test direct to the panel ? If it does the same then this would suggest it's player related. If not then maybe worth providing examples to Lumagen for comment.

AVI
 

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