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low VS high resolution

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Cecchi, Dec 16, 2002.

  1. Cecchi

    Cecchi
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    I'm interesed in buying a 42 inches Panasonic plasma monitor. I'll be using it for watching DVDs and stat TV programs.
    My question is: does it make sense to spend much more in order to get the high resolution version (42PHD5) Vs the standard one (42PW5)? Is the difference noticeable when not connected to a PC?
     
  2. andya

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    hi ive seen a 50inch version with 1024 768 and thought the picture quality was much better,id like to know to if there is any difference,weather its worth paying the extra.im now thinking of the sanyo z1 projector route,very impressed when i saw it, i think it had a better picture than the plasma
     
  3. Cecchi

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    of course the larger the screen is the more you can notice the difference.
    I think the point is also: is it better to upscale or downscale a PAL/video signal to the actual display's resolution?
     
  4. JamesTapp

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    My tuppence worth,

    Its easier to take detail away than to make up what is supposed to be there.

    I don't really see the need for the higher resolution in the UK until the sources allow us to make use of it.

    James
     
  5. Cecchi

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    James,
    Are (800x) 480 pixels enough for a DVD movie?
    Thank you in advance for your patience.
     
  6. CarlB

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    I agree with James but this issue has been argued in some detail on the forum. Try searching and you'll find loads of detailed info that will do nothing to make your decision easier! :D

    And Cecchi - 480p is the native resolution for progressive DVD signals on R1 discs. To display such a disc at the panel's native rate will yield the absolute best picture possible as no scaling is required.

    The only issue is if you think High Definition formats will be available in the UK before you intend to replace the panel, wherby a high resolution screen may yield better quality. I say *may* as it is very possible that HD displays will use 720p signals and current high res screens offer 768 lines, so some scaling will be required.

    My decision was to get SD (480p Panasonic plasma) now to get the very best from my R1 DVD collection, and then look to upgrade at some point in the future when the HD-DVD hardware and plasmas are available to offer native rate HD.

    PS. If your collection is mainly PAL discs then you will always suffer scaling as there are no screens that offer 576p PAL Progressive native rate. Having said that, the Panasonic does a good job with PAL discs, but there are more motion artifacts visible. This is particularly evident on pan shots where colour banding (solarisation) becomes clearly visible on skintones where the panel seems unable to process the amount of information required. These errors do not seem to be present on R1 software running 480p native rate.
     
  7. KBDVD

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    Hi Cecchi,

    CarlB makes a good argument for deciding on a standard resolution panel. Also as Carl has indicated, He, I & others have had a couple of long and fruitfull debates about this very topic on these forums over the last couple of months. (Have a look at the "sticky" at the top of the DVD forum for our last encounter!)

    I think the best way of illustrating my own personal belief in the opposing viewpoint to Carl's would be to state that I have today ordered a 50" Panasonic TH-50PHW5B High Resolution panel in order to benefit from a cracking DVD image now, PLUS a guaranteed superior (in comparison to a Standard Resolution panel) performance with HD-DVD when this becomes a market reality in a couple of years time.

    ps. "Merry Christmas" Carl! (I've really enjoyed our on-going discussion on this subject).

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  8. CarlB

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    KBDVD,

    Merry Xmas to you too, I know you'll love your new plasma. I must say that my argument is only really relevant at 42" screen sizes - I'm not sure that you can get 50" screens with 480p, and if you did then I'm sure it would be a 'bad thing'. At that screen size I think you're bound to notice the pixel structure...

    Good choice anyway mate, hope you're happy with your new toy!

    :D
     
  9. philipb

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    Course there is the other option - go for the Pioneer 43" High Def screen and get the best of all worlds. IMO picture is overall better than Panny (not so good on contrast but in all other respects better), and the performance with 625 PAL progressive signal from a Denon 3800 is awesome. I had a low def screen before the 433, and pixel structure is much less visible on the high def model. This may be important to you depending on viewing distance or if you plan to do any PC stuff on it.
    Frankly all these screens are belters, but the Pio is one way of avoiding the High Def versus Low Def question and still have cracking good PQ; plus it costs about the same as the Panny low def and loads less than the Panny high def.
     
  10. CarlB

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    Philip,

    I'm afraid the Pio 43" is the display that sparked the discussion rather than the solution as you mention. The issue under discussion was that of scaling, and as any display with more than 480p resolution has to scale the image the Pioneer is just the same as the Panasonic 50", albeit in a smaller frame.

    It's not screen size we were discussing, but the issue of not running the panel at it's native rate.

    Check the HD-DVD sticky in the DVD Talk forum as KBDVD mentioned, it's a pretty balanced argument with no clear winners, only preferences.
     
  11. saggio

    saggio
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  12. alpha10

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    Hi CarlB,

    I have followed your arguments on the othre threads and I am now quite concerned!

    I have a Denon DVD3800 the same as you I think (?) I am in the market for a plasma in the new year, now the vast majority of my discs are R2s, so are you saying that these are going to look worse on a plasma even though they have far more resolution?

    Surely a HD plasma working within its resolution must be the better option?

    Cheers
     
  13. Dutch

    Dutch
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    hi saggio,

    I'm sure that the website is showing incorrect information about the 37PW5B screen resolution - it should read 852x480 as per the 42PW5B. The pictures also show the old-style pedestal stand not the 5 series curvy one.

    Steve
     
  14. steelej

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    My opinion on the PAL vs NTSC debate on the plasma is that region 2 PAL DVD's look much better than the equivalent region 1. I recently got Star wars EPII on region 1 DVD, the picture quality was good, but on some of the battles scenes there was some strange artifacts that showed up on both the plasma and CRT, also during slow and fast pans there was some judder which I have noticed in all of my NTSC dvd's, something to do with the 24fps to 30fps conversion I think, but pals DVD's don't suffer from this. The region 2 version of EPII was vastly superior in my opinion even although the region1 is running at the panels native rate.

    I know I've only used EPII as the example here but I have tried a number of disks and for me the region 2 wins on picture quality everytime.

    John.
     
  15. CarlB

    CarlB
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    I see more problems with my R2 discs than I do R1 running at native 480p. As I detailed elsewhere my main problem is that I see solarisation (colour banding) on R2 pans which does not appear on R1 discs during pans. I believe this is because I am then reliant upon the progressive processing in my plasma rather than the Denon 3800 processing. The Panasonic is not quite as good as the Denon IMO, and the colour bands on skintones during pans seem to be a direct result of this - I don't think it can handle the subtle gradients in skintone along with the vast amount of moving picture information. As a result the skintone adopts a '256 colour palette' look during the pan, returning to normal when the camera steadies. This does not happen with any of my R1 480p discs.

    So you will see many counter arguments here. I firmly believe in getting the best from my DVD player, I spent a lot of money on it so I want it to be handling the processing for the picture, not my plasma. The only way to ensure this is to use a 480p panel, otherwise scaling is involved which adds another variable to the equation.

    Personally if I had a collection of R2 discs (I only have about 10 out of 420, the rest being R1) I wouldn't buy a plasma at the moment - I would wait until panels with native PAL-P format were available. Now that PAL-P has been ratified this could be a reality soon.

    That's just my opinion and there are loads of people that disagree with me. Like I said before, there are no rights or wrongs here, only opinion and preference. Make sure you get a good test of the plasma with your DVD player before you pull the trigger...
     
  16. alpha10

    alpha10
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    Cheers Carl, I am grateful for your comments, interesting idea about true PAL P plasmas on the horizon......

    I too am very pleased with my 3800, I just think it is wasted on my 32" CRT at the moment.......

    Cheers
     
  17. Cecchi

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    now I'm totally confused. What should I buy? Considering that I cannot get the ideal solution (full spport of PAL Progressive) is it better and smarter to go for a less expensive 37 inches Panny?
     
  18. steelej

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    Carl, what plasma is it you have, I remember recent threads mention solarisation, but this doesn't seem to be an issue on the new Panny 5 series with the 10bit video card, the 4 series was 8 bit IIRC which suffered more from the problem. I really don't think that scaling down a Pal-P signal does any real noticable damage, but as you said it's all opinion, I would also not recommend to anyone not to buy a plasma if they only had region 2 DVD's, running the screen at native rate isn't the only factor in getting good picture quality.

    John. :)
     
  19. CarlB

    CarlB
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    I have the Panasonic 4 series which does have the 8-bit video card. However, I think it was Jon Weaver with the model 5 that also mentioned this 'solarisation on pans' issue in another thread.
     
  20. philipb

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    Agree totally that we can only talk preferences.

    Agree inputting a 3800 into a 32" CRT is a bit like harnessing a thoroughbred to a cart - bit harsh but you know what I mean.

    All I can say is that PQ with a 3800 inputting PAL PS into a Pioneer 433MXE is awesome and I don't see any solarisation etc. The PQ from R2 discs is better than with R1, but then not all R2 discs are alike.

    I can appreciate the logic of not upgrading to plasma if you think that new screens with the "correct" rate for PAL PS are imminent. But if you have a high end DVD player - PAL prog or not - I certainly would recommend going the plasma route as soon as you can. PQ on the Pannys and the Pioneers is superb and at last a real contender for CRT. Black levels may not yet quite compete with CRT, but in all other respects the game is now up for conventional TV (IMHO) and I can't see any point in waiting. Of course there's always something new about to come out, but all the time you're waiting you're not enjoying:D
     
  21. alpha10

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    Cheers for that I must admit I am getting more and more fed up with the 32" CRT, every time I watch a film I think it is such a waste……The 3800 has a dark level setting so I assume that is designed to help get over the black level problems on plasmas and projectors??

    The word imminent you used is the key, how likely would it be before we did see a true PAL P set, one year two years who knows if ever, so maybe your right time to take the plunge anyway..

    Cheers
     
  22. steelej

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    Alpha10,

    I would say go for it now if you want it, you won't regret it.

    John.
     
  23. alpha10

    alpha10
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    Yep, get Xmas (hogmanay) out of the way and I think I'll look around for a Jan bargain..

    Cheers all.
     
  24. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Alpha10

    There are no plans for any revisions on the Pioneer MXE displays - expect the current MXE line up to be around for another 18 months or so.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  25. lumpsucker

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    Joe,

    this months "Essential Home Cinema" refers on page 15 to .."The future is (almost) now - one of Pioneer's new range of Plasma Tv's"..... It's unclear whether this is a fact or a piece of fiction to emphasise the point the article is making on Windows Media 9.
    Do you have any information on this?

    Regards

    Simon
     
  26. Cecchi

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    I have got it! Just before Christmas I have been offered a Panny 37PW4 for 3890 € (equivalent to 2350 GBP). Impossible to resist!
    I want t thank you all for your suggestions and support.
     
  27. keyser

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    How does HD look on a SD plasma? Does the picture look better than with a SD source. I´d imagine it would just look worse because of the downconverting ??
     
  28. KBDVD

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    Hello again keyser,

    I've no first hand experience but I have seen it mentioned on some US forums that HD-TV images on a standard resolution screen look very good and certainly no worse than a standard definition signal!

    There is after all no reason why It shouldn't, your supplying the panel with picture info that is more than adequate to provide individual pixel info for each and every pixel.

    Mind you, I've also read that HD-TV images and D-Theatre tapes on a High Definition plasma panel look fantastic!

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     

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