1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

LOTR - All the threads are now here!

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by adi, Mar 26, 2002.

  1. adi

    adi
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    are we entering a period where the studios and distributors will try to rip us off.
    rumour has it that between august and october this year, there will be three different releases of L.O.T.R. - the first being the "theatrical" version with a 2nd extras, the second being the "directors cut" with a 2nd extras disk (different extras ??) and the third being a four disk set featuring everything.
    now, i'm all for extras, directors cuts, etc - but where will it end ??
     
  2. Confucius

    Confucius
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,103
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Oxford
    Ratings:
    +90
    I've only heard of 2 versions of Lord of the Rings.

    Both were announced well in advance (or will be this week) - the point is it's 'common' knowledge. Nobody is being ripped off. Sure, if they waited 'til some time after the first release before announcing the SE that would be rather underhand, but not in this case.
     
  3. adi

    adi
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    point is - do we need 2 differing releases - whats up with the theatrical release using seamless branching to incorporate the diectors cut.
    the fact is - if you want to see both versions - you shell out twice
     
  4. Lex

    Lex
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,089
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Cornwall
    Ratings:
    +4
    I don't think this is anything new; Paramount and Fox were always doing this in the days of VHS, I remember films like Die Hard, Star Trek films, Star Wars films constantly being re-released!

    I agree it is purely inteded to get more money out of us!

    I don't know what to do about LOTR - I want the film as soon as possible, but I also want the special edition, so do I buy the first release and only keep it a couple of months or do I wait until November?
    In my opinion they are simply encouraging the Pirates! (please do not take that comment as pro-piracy - I am totally against piracy)
     
  5. adi

    adi
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    how much do you want to bet that this time next year there'll be "the gore version" - or a cut with a 12 or 15 certificate
    dont get me wrong, ive waited 25 years to see the books filmed - i'm going to buy however many cuts they release..........
     
  6. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2002
    Messages:
    474
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +9
    Remember the rumor saying Roman Polanski slit through Jack Nicholson's nose with the switchblade for real in 'Chinatown'? That is what I call a director's cut.

    I think it's awkward how they re-release old movies that had flawed optical effects, with new flawed CG effects. It has gotten so out of hand. E.T. now looks like Flubber.

    I considered buying The Matrix Revisited on DVD, but then I thought to myself; Why should I? I don't need that.

    Do I really need that paper box around the case of Atlantis: The Lost Empire? No, but I will keep it anyway. Do I need the special edition to begin with? No, but I had to get that since the regular edition in Sweden was in 1.33:1 format.

    Do I even need Atlantis: TLE at all? Not really, but I wanted to see it. I was looking forward to it yesterday, which apparently was a whole year ago today. This compelled me to share my cash with Disney. I did not see Atlantis: TLE in the theater, because the only plexes that screened it with the original voice cast, were the kind that are full of rancid popcorn and other things that move and crackle when stepped on ...flying coke mugs ...and assorted noises not from the sound system. And when I say assorted, I mean it.

    That's why I love watching movies at home. :)

    What I really want to see is 'Smoke' and 'Blue in the Face' in a 4-disc collectors edition, with a signed fold-out holographic case in 6 variants, stuck in a double paper box, resting on a golden silk pillow inside a walk-in humidor. That is what I call a special edition. Or maybe I just need some sleep.
     
  7. pointon

    pointon
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,381
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Right behind you!!!
    Ratings:
    +3
    I mentioned this a few months ago... three different LOTR releases, at different times, all aimed as collectors items to the gatherers of pointless merchandise out there who will be happy to fork out for the same thing countless times over, just as Star Wars fans seem to be.

    You need sleep! Look at my time!
     
  8. Lex

    Lex
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,089
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Cornwall
    Ratings:
    +4
    Ten past four and he's going to bed... tut tut tut, Lightweight!!;) :D
     
  9. adi

    adi
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    "I considered buying The Matrix Revisited on DVD, but then I thought to myself; Why should I? I don't need that."


    the good thing about the Matrix Revisited, is that at least you can just buy the extras disk, without having to buy the film again.

    look at how many different versions of The Evil Dead, and Army of Darkness there are - spec.eds., bootleg cuts, book-of the dead packaging - each one slightly different. Do we wait 12 months and buy the "Super Special Bootleg Ultimate Final Directors Cut edition" - and do they re-release it 18 months after that for the "10th Anniversery Cut"
     
  10. Dirk 2

    Dirk 2
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    To answer Adi's question "where will it end"?, it ends when the punters stop buying the new versions.

    As long as you and I are prepared to put our hands in our pockets, Mr DVD label will continue to re-package and revise products.

    Why get upset? These people don't release DVD's for the greater benefit of humanity. They do it to make money! The music industry does it all the time.
     
  11. Lex

    Lex
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,089
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Cornwall
    Ratings:
    +4
    I wonder whether the first release will be a commercial success? It seems strange that they have already announced the fact that there is a better version coming out three months later - surely this will affect sales?
     
  12. Lex

    Lex
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,089
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Cornwall
    Ratings:
    +4
    EIV *Yuck* have today announced that LOTR will be released THREE times this year in the UK.

    Once in August and two spec eds in November.

    (Not that I would touch an EIV disk with a ten foot barge pole) ;)

    R2 Project say:

    Entertainment will release the theatrical cut of 'The Lord Of The Rings: The Fellowship Of The Ring' on both VHS (EVS1473, £16.99 rrp) and DVD (EDV9169, £24.99 rrp) on August 6.

    The DVD version will be a two disc set. The first disc will comprise the theatrical feature, presented in 5.1 Dolby EX Surround and 2.0 Stereo Surround with English subtitles and closed captions. The second disc will contain an incredible 158 minutes of must-own special features which amongst those offer fans of the Tolkien epic an exclusive ten minute preview of the second installment of the fantasy trilogy 'The Two Towers'. Additional DVD features include: Houghton Mifflin Welcomes You To Middle Earth; Quest For the Ring: Fox Network TV Special; The Path To Middle Earth: Sci-Fi Channel TV Special; eight internet documentary shorts; three theatrical trailers; six TV spots; Enya's May It Be music video; EA Video Game preview and a preview of the extended version DVD presented by Peter Jackson. 'The Lord Of the Rings: The Fellowship Of the Ring' has a running time of 178 minutes and will likely carry a 'PG' certificate.

    EV will then follow the August release with an extraordinary extended cut version on November 12. The VHS version of the extended cut (EVS1475, £16.99 rrp) will contain 30 minutes of extra footage. The DVD (EDV9171, £29.99 rrp) will be presented as a four disc set. Discs 1 & 2 will contain the extended cut of the film, presented in 6.1 Dolby Digital EX Surround, fully enhanced DTS 6.1 & stereo; 2.0 Stereo Surround and with subtitles and closed captions. Discs 3 & 4 will contain six hours of original supplementary material, full details to follow.

    Also on November 12, Entertainment will release a Collector's Box Set Four Disc DVD (EDV9172, £44.99 rrp). Discs 1 & 2 will feature the extended cut of the film with 30 minutes of extra footage.

    This will be presented in 6.1 Dolby Digital EX Surround, fully enhanced DTS 6.1 & stereo; 2.0 Stereo Surround and with subtitles and closed captions. Discs 3 & 4 will contain six hours of original supplementary material, full details to follow. The box set will also contain exclusive Argonath bookends together with a host of other superb additions which will be announced at a later date.


    More details here: http://www.r2-dvd.org/article.jsp?sectionId=7&articleId=3789
     
  13. aaarrrggghhh!!!

    aaarrrggghhh!!!
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The director's cut version is meant to be R/18 rated as well.
     
  14. PoochJD

    PoochJD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,992
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +1,863
    HI,

    Well, if what "Aaaarrgh" says is correct, then the BBFC won't allow the extended release. Why?

    After "The Mummy" (1999) was released onto video with a "12" certificate, and the DVD with the few seconds of previously censored footage (of Brendan Fraser being hung) reinstated, and released as a "15", the BBFC got complaints from retailers and other places, about this certificate discrepancy.

    As it was getting more and more difficult to work out who was 12 and who was 15, it caused a lot of problems.

    As such, the BBFC have since revised the rules about releasing different editions of films, with relation to their certificates. Ultimately, what this means is that:

    - no film can be released on the same or different viewing formats, with different certificates.
    - Boxed sets containing more than one film, with different certificates, will be sold at the most restrictive certificate e.g. a "PG" and "15" set of TV show episodes, will be sold as a "15"!

    So, if the LOTR Extended edition is genuinely going to contain graphic or adult material that would take it from a "PG", to a "15" or "18", then the longer cut will not be allowed to be released by the BBFC, if the regular "PG" version is still available at the same time, in shops/rental stores.

    This may seem a really stupid decision by the BBFC, and whilst I don't advocate censorship to adults, I can see the BBFC's point-of-view, and even more so the problems of having a "PG" edition available, alongside a "15" certificate Director's Cut!

    Pooch
     
  15. aaarrrggghhh!!!

    aaarrrggghhh!!!
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Don't actually know about the R2 release, just a guess, but read about the R1 below:

    "...we do know it will receive a new R rating for extended violence." DVD Times
     
  16. encaser

    encaser
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,566
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Suffolk/Essex
    Ratings:
    +112
    All they need do is tag on directors cut, Adult copy, 18, surely, and that should be enough. All this crap about not knowing a 12 (year old) from a 15 sticker (simple ask them for ID - some card now aint there?), they handle numbers all sodding day don't they for a living? I notice resellers aren't bitching asking for fags to be set at 18 or lotto cards etc, funny how they learn the age categories for those.
    How can it be a discrepancy any way if it's been regulated by the BBFC and clearly stickered? Some people really make me wanna slap them into sense. The mixed set thing is already in place any way which is fair enough though.
    It's just lazy shop keeping by retailers trying to cover their arse instead of insisting their staff actually pay attention to what they sell. And don't some places now have query tags come up on till panels so 'lightning quick' staff pick up on what they're selling - sure I've seen this?
    Makes me mad, in case you aint noticed, like all those inbred parents who complained that South Park was on too early, but cause it was a cartoon course they'd let their kids watch it with everyone else. Apparently they didn't want to leave them out of the 'family setting' and send them to bed, but then went on to complain it was too much for kids, even after warnings by compares. When some the complainants were asked how old their kids were, most were under 10. ARRRRGGGHHH.
    Hopefully a fuller cut of LOTR will improve it as I found it far too cheesy sentimentalist in places without the necessary plot development being set up for Hobit friendships etc., particularly if someone had dared to watch the film without having read the books. Of note the Sean Bean bit was well OTT, and he especially, and the Prince were much more mysterious and powerful characters in the print. Perhaps I'll have to watch it again...
    Rant mode disengage.
     
  17. danielzavitz

    danielzavitz
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    i don't know what the retailers are complaining about with the certificates, i find few aspects of my job more entertaining than tellinga 14 year old with a pathetic attempt at a beard that he can't rent scary movie 2 and watching all his mates laugh at him.
    it really isn't thatdifficult to tell and if in doubt don't serve them. it's even funnier when they are 18!
    as for selling box sets under the highest certification - duh of course you have to.
    would you sell an eight year old a box set of bambi and cannibal holocaust just because bambi is a U!
    and the bbfcs rules are lies anyway. the video of moulin rouge is a 12 but the dvd is a 15 because of the special features. so why can't you release a film with 2 different certificates?
     
  18. Dirk 2

    Dirk 2
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    For latest details on LOTR:TFOTR

    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

    There are pics of the menu etc.

    Personally, buy the R1 copy of this movie whatever version you get.

    Note the pan & scan version. Crazy, truly crazy.
     
  19. Rambo John J

    Rambo John J
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,763
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Hanoi Hilton
    Ratings:
    +992
    Although I'd never watch it P+S myself, I can definitely see the reasoning behind it. DVD isn't, after all, the cinephile format that laserdisc was - it's effectively the replacement for vhs and so I guess they feel they need to cater for all potential customers. Fact is, there's still folks out there that don't like widescreen, although why someone would want to pay for a film and then only see half of it is beyond me. I see there's a few parallel P+S and wide releases starting to pop up over here in the UK aswell - isn't Harry Potter one of them?

    Personally, I don't think P+S transfers should be allowed. By all means when a film is shot full frame (open matte) then include a full frame aswell as a matted option, but when they're using 2.35:1 ratio's I feel it should be illegal to release the film in 4:3 format. Punishable by something like death.


    Well, I'm allowed to dream.:rolleyes:
     
  20. PoochJD

    PoochJD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,992
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +1,863
    Encaser, Daniel Zavitz, and everyone else,

    Encaser said:
    1) "All they need do is tag on directors cut, Adult copy, 18, surely, and that should be enough."
    Sadly, many stores simply go by looks. Despite what stores claim, very few staff check ages of younger purchasers, or ask for ID. I agree that stores and shops should be far more vigorous, but the fact is, they aren't being.

    Plus, you mustn't forget that the film has a certificate that means it's been officially approved as being suitable for children. Hence, the problem of stoppin adults renting out the longer version, and then letting 6-year old Sammy watch it, unattended, or with 12-year old Gertrude with her younger kid sister!

    Daniel Zavitz then went on to say:
    "as for selling box sets under the highest certification - duh of course you have to. Would you sell an eight year old a box set of bambi and cannibal holocaust just because bambi is a U!"

    I was only pointing it out, because many, many years ago, when Star Trek and St: TNG was originally released to home video, the front cover would have two different certificates, one for each episode. Hence, the revising of clustering of episodes from one show, all to the highest rating, in box sets.

    Daniel also said: "and the bbfcs rules are lies anyway. the video of moulin rouge is a 12 but the dvd is a 15 because of the special features. so why can't you release a film with 2 different certificates?"

    Actually, you are ever so slightly out on that one. "Moulin Rouge" on both video and DVD are a "12" certificate. The "15" rating, only applies to the extras disc! Hence, it gets around the BBFC's "no two films with different certificates" ruling. If the film itself, had been increased to a "15" on DVD, then the BBFC would not have allowed it to be released, alongside the "12" certificate video version.

    I don't make these rules. I simply pass the information on to all of you about why certain decisions are the way they are. Therefore, either "LOTR" will be released in the UK, just as the regular "PG" version, or if the extra material is included in the film itself (and not separately as an extra), then it won't get a UK release at all!

    This may seem really stupid, but that's the rules. Blame the BBFC for the tightening up on home entertainment certification for children! (And yes, I know that LOTR isn't meant to be a children's film!)

    Pooch
     
  21. Dirk 2

    Dirk 2
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    One possible solution. If unfortunately you do not have a mutliregion player, buy your copy from France or elsewhere in europe.

    Thus if the UK declines a higher rateed directors cut, you can flick the V's and still watch regardless of outmoded censorship laws.
     
  22. adi

    adi
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    the certification of the various releases wasnt thought of at the time of my posting, although its very intersting, albeit from a slightly different angle.

    the tone of the books was of an "adult fairytale", and the some of the issues and images contained within the works (especially "The Return of the King" are very dark indeed.
    The film(s) were obvoiusly shot and produced with much more adult content, then edited down to the relevant certificate.
    I personally would love to see a 15, or even 18 certificate cut of the film, which would, not necessarily pile on the gore, but build upon the suspense, horror and sheer savagery of Middle Earth.

    The USA have an "unrated" category for differing cuts, or additional materials - could something similar apply in the UK ??
     
  23. Lex

    Lex
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,089
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Cornwall
    Ratings:
    +4
    Superb!

    Thanks for the headsup Dirk!

    I'm losing sleep already!!

    It looks like I'm gonna be a complete sucker and buy all of them! *sigh*

    Lex.
     
  24. Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I can't believe that we have to wait to November to get LOTR in DTS. I know they want to make money, but it has made enough already to cover the cost of all 3 films! Can someone explain what Dolby EX surround is? Is it just another channel? I'll have to get the non DTS version first, to long to wait for the second version!
     
  25. Confucius

    Confucius
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,103
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Oxford
    Ratings:
    +90
    Dolby Digital 5.1 EX (to give it it's full title) is as the name suggests a sound format with 5.1 discrete channels of information. The EX enhancement is a matrixed rear channel, much as pro logic derived centre information from L & R. The first movie to feature this was of course 'Star Wars: The Phantom Menace'.

    Although this rear channel is mono, THX and many experts recommend using 2 back surround speakers (hence a 7.1 channel amplifier which refers to 7 power amps, NOT 7 discrete channels). Having said that some current thinking is moving back towards a single rear. The only home format with a discrete rear channel is DTS 6.1 ES Discrete.
     
  26. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
    AVForums Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2000
    Messages:
    13,925
    Products Owned:
    6
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    Ratings:
    +9,660
    I only have 2 wishes in this world.
    Just 2.
    The first is that people would take the time to read the FAQ instead of posting the same old questions.
    The second wish is that experienced folks would send them off to the FAQ with a flea in their ear rather than typing out the same old answer for the umteenth time.
    Just 2 wishes.

    That's all.
     
  27. Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Spectre,

    Sorry oh masterful one!!
     
  28. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    3,015
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +119
    My dear Spectre,

    As a newcomer to this usually excellent forum, I must say that I found your reply to UFO 1947 above to be both unnecessarily harsh and distinctly unwelcoming.

    When I joined, I searched for a FAQ, found one signposted and duly read it. It contains nothing that would have answered UFO's question, and nothing to suggest that searching the archives might be a good idea before posting a particular query.

    And as for suggesting that more knowledgable members should send tyro questioners away "with a flea in their ear", that seems to me to be counter to the entire spirit of the boards.

    In the time you took to compose your smug little rant, you could have written something altogether more friendly and distinctly more helpful.

    Bert Coules

    http://www.bertcoules.co.uk
     
  29. Confucius

    Confucius
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,103
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Oxford
    Ratings:
    +90
    I have just sent this e-mail to the 'webmaster':

    Hi,

    Just to let you know that the explanation given for the FAQ:

    "A 6.1-channel variant of Dolby Digital, EX encodes a rear-surround channel - a 'rear centre' - via an analogue matrix, and delivers it via the two rear channels."

    is not entirely correct. Call me 'Mr Picky' but it isn't a 6.1 channel variant, as the rear is (as is correctly written) a matrix channel, and cannot therefore be described as 6.1. The only true 6.1 discrete system, which can be written as 6.1 is DTS ES Discrete.

    The 6.1 can, however, be used to describe an amplifier with a single back surround channel of amplification.

    Hope this helps clear things up.

    Regards

    Pete H (Confucius)
     
  30. Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Bert Coules,

    Cheers mate for that. I agree with you, spectre does have a way with words!
     

Share This Page

Loading...