Lossless Audio, do you want it?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD discs' started by BadAss, Sep 5, 2007.

?
  1. If the space is there, deffinately.

    72.7%
  2. DD+ is good enough.

    7.3%
  3. I'd rather have extras.

    3.6%
  4. Don't care either way.

    12.7%
  5. Don't know.

    3.6%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AgentCool

    AgentCool
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Messages:
    2,653
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +184
    I don't really care. It's certainly an on-paper benefit having a lossless soundtrack but a 1.5Mbit/s DD+ track is good enough for me, especially when you consider that DD tracks on 35mm in cinemas only run at 320-384kbit/s. I seem to remember reading a DTS claim a few years ago that a 1.5Mbit/s full bit-rate DTS soundtrack is indistinguishable from the original master. Dolby made a similar claim regarding a 640kbit/s DD track. I think many people would disagree with these claims today but nobody can really argue that full bit-rate DD/DTS provide anything but a stellar home cinema experience.

    Still, I'm all for progress and I can see why people would want lossless as standard and I'm certainly not opposed to the idea. Having said that, I would prefer TrueHD/DTS Master over PCM for the benefit of being able to downconvert to 5.1 on older surround systems without having to 'fake it' using Pro-Logic II.
     
  2. KevD

    KevD
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Messages:
    10,703
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,563
    Quite clearly, given away by his post just after starting "Is this where all HD-DVD supporters abstain? :rotfl:"
     
  3. Bald Monkey

    Bald Monkey
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,123
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,084
    Perhaps we need a new poll... asking what people would prefer no region coding and cheaper players.. or lossless soundtracks. :devil:

    Then again not only would that be futile, but with the number of HD-DVD's with True HD soundtracks, and BD's without, this clearly isn't a format dependant issue, despite some BR fans wishes to illustrate it as such. :boring:

    As for the OP. Given the choice between a title with lossless and the same title without, I would pick up the one with the lossless audio. I would not however choose a title just because of the audio. I have yet to experience much in the way of HD audio soundtracks, so it is all still new to me. I would struggle to make the most of them with my present kit. So this is something I might be more concerned with in the future. For now I'm happy with the improved PQ and AQ and thats playing through the Xbox Addon... Eventually with a standalone HD-DVD player I might be more interested in the lossless audio tracks, however it will always be dependant on how good the soundtrack actually is, not wether it is lossless or not. Just as I don't care what colour the disc is, why should I care how the sound is encoded, so long as it sounds good.. I have some terrific DD/DTS SD DVD's and some pretty awfull ones, the same will be true with HD, I am not going to get obsessed with the numbers/spec war that seems to be developing, There are some great SD DVD's I bought that only have 2.0 DD although I would rather they had 5.1 I still enjoyed them. ;)
     
  4. FOXCLOSE

    FOXCLOSE
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    640
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +34
    :boring:

    Do you know how many Blu-ray disc titles actually have lossless sound compared to HD-DVD? I mean seriously, it's not even funny! Care to illustrate that point?

    Besides, DolbyTrueHD is available most BD Players as well. This is where studios have an advantage of putting several language soundtracks of lossless audio on BD, while HD-DVD studios will probably struggle.

    So yet another reason why BD should die! :rolleyes:
     
  5. Pecker

    Pecker
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    22,495
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Huddersfield, People's Republic of Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +4,614
    I voted 'don't care', but that's not the full story.

    Despite BadAss's excellent attempts to put up as many possible answers as possible (though he possibly missed the obvious 'no'), it's impossible to cover all possible answers.

    All other things being equal I'd prefer lossloess audio.

    Alll other things being equal there are all sorts of things I'd prefer.

    Who'd say no to 2160p video?

    Or lossless audio at 192khz/24 bit - far superior to what we've seen so far?

    But how much do you want it? That's the quiestion.

    If you listened to a lossless soundtrack alongside a lossy one, and they sounded identical, would you still want lossless?

    Would you pay extra for it?

    So yes, I'd like lossless.

    But more important than that - far, far more important - I want to slip the disc in the player, fire up the projector, and go "WOW!".

    And so far, I've done that with several films on high def without lossless soundtracks.

    What I'd really like to see is a forum full of people who enjoy films; who enjoy the "WOW!" experience of enjoying a night in front of a film, rather than a forum full of people who enjoy going "WOW!" at the sight of a logo on the spec sheet of a film, before it's even been released.

    Steve W
     
  6. Kainz

    Kainz
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    149
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    In a cowfield, London Uk
    Ratings:
    +0
    Voted for Don't care. I'm on a 2.1 system in my room and given that DD sounds good, I'm happy with anything that is offered on a hi-def disc.
     
  7. Moosh

    Moosh
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,004
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Bristol
    Ratings:
    +469
    I guess the problem is that some of these hardcore supporters are master baters. And they know it. :D

    OT: It depends on the movie. If the movie is very "talkie" then why would you need a lossless soundtrack?

    Moosh
     
  8. zz101

    zz101
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,431
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +68
    HD audio is just as important as HD pictures - to claim to be a film fan AND say otherwise is just ridiculous.
     
  9. zz101

    zz101
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,431
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +68
    I really dont understand why people are having at tough time accepting that the lack of HD audio is major omission - the world wont stop turning you know and Paramount wont start hating you. :D
     
  10. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,846
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +975



    Not to me but then I just watch movies because I enjoy them and if by your definition I am not a "film fan" because DTS and DD (on DVD) is not upto the job for Blu-ray/HD DVD despite a decade of being the bees knees in terms of domestic viewing then fair enough:)


    That said I would ask the question if the choice was a new format with a higher standard of picture OR audio but not both which facility would be in more demand to the consumer:)
     
  11. cobbler

    cobbler
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    344
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Deep inside Devon (the county, not the porn star)
    Ratings:
    +55

    Yet none of this was an issue with DVDs. If you are a film fan then it's

    ridiculous to throw a hissy fit about not having lossless audio when the

    majority of people will get untold enjoyment from the DD+ soundtrack (all

    while the militant lossless audio people sit and listen to their blank screen).


    Transformers is NOT on blu ray and does NOT have lossless audio. Get over

    it and move on.
     
  12. Noggin1980

    Noggin1980
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,175
    You realise of course that the video is compressed and not lossless just like DD+?

    DD+ at 1.5Mpbs is a massive bit rate improvement over the audio specs on DVD.

    We don't even know if there is any audable difference at all between level matched DD+ 1.5Mbps and a lossless track and if there is an difference what level of equipment is needed to hear that difference?

    FilmMixer who is a re-recording mixer in Hollywood says

    and

     
  13. BadAss

    BadAss
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2001
    Messages:
    2,967
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +182
    It wasn't too long ago when HD-DVD fans were jumping for joy when HD-DVD had True-HD and Blu-ray didn't. Now Transformers doesn't get True-HD it doesn't seem to matter! Fickle bunch.
     
  14. hottstuff

    hottstuff
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,617
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Rep. of Ireland
    Ratings:
    +149
    Agreed.
     
  15. zz101

    zz101
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,431
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Ratings:
    +68
    :rotfl: I love this - when TruHD was only on HD-DVD it was the bee's knees now because its not on a single HD-DVD title its a pointless waste of space. How fickle. :D

    This 'war' has descended into an utter farce. :clap:
     
  16. Noggin1980

    Noggin1980
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,175
    Not a single person has called it a pointless waste of space, the overwhelming majority of people voted that they would like the track there. Even if it turns out there is no audible difference it's still a good thing for marketing reasons. There is nothing on this thread to support your post.

    Please stop trying to get threads locked.
     
  17. cobbler

    cobbler
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    344
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Deep inside Devon (the county, not the porn star)
    Ratings:
    +55

    :lease: This isn't a war, this is several people upset about not being able to

    watch transformers on their chosen format.
     
  18. Bald Monkey

    Bald Monkey
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,123
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,084
    Wrong there are plenty of HD-DVD's with True HD Audio tracks.
     
  19. sweetmate

    sweetmate
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    706
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +51
    Yes please to TrueHD, no thanks to PCM.
     
  20. andythescientis

    andythescientis
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,321
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +110
    I too have read those views with interest on that thread.

    I have to say in the early days of DVD, i had a player with both DD and DTS, and i always used to use the DTS if available, as it sounded better to me, on my system. However did it mean i did not enjoy discs with just DD on them? Did it mean i refused to buy a disc as it didn't have DTS on it? Of course not.

    Did i pay extra for a disc with DTS on it? Well i did once (i think it was jurassic park..)

    Half the problem with this format war is that by bringing the consoles into it, you've brought a whole new level of fanboism into the battle. Where in many cases the arguments simply turn into a game of top trumps. That's what console wars have always been about, battling over the power of the processor, the number of calculations per picosecond, the number of polygons the box can move around the screen. When really at the end of the day it all means very little if the games are rubbish.


    End of day on paper lossless looks great, we'd all like a 1:1 video reproduction too, however neither format has that, does it mean it's not great to the eye? But are we happy with current lossy video codecs if done well? If so why are we so hung up on lossless vs lossy audio? How many people spitting blood over this own a blooming Ipod? The argument is a joke.

    If the audio sounds great it'll get 5/5, if it's rubbish it'll get 3/5, that's what we should be judging releases on not how it fits into the HD top trumps deck.
     
  21. BadAss

    BadAss
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2001
    Messages:
    2,967
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +182
    Hmm so if 720p looks good enough to 70% of people should we force the other 30% to give up on 1080p? Just think of how much disc space that would save.

    So the vast majority want True-HD if space allows but would rather support a format that has 20GB less space on a dual layer disc, there's logic for you.

    I thought HD was all about upgrades, already we see Paramount downgrading audio to fit a 2hr24min film with extras oon a HD30.
     
  22. andythescientis

    andythescientis
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,321
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +110
    Is there any evidence that the reason why Transformers does not have TrueHD is space?

    How much space is saved between a DD+ 1.5kbs and a TrueHD track?

    I just don't understant why people are blasting a release before anyone's actually heard the AQ on the disc.
     
  23. Noggin1980

    Noggin1980
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,175
    Fantastic Quote. Love the top trumps bit.
     
  24. Greg Hook

    Greg Hook
    Moderator & Reviewer

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    Messages:
    24,528
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    In a secret location with Jennifer Lawrence
    Ratings:
    +11,925
    Closing this thread. Just going round in circle with the BD fanboys.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...