Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - TV Series (Amazon) Sept. 2, 2022

It's definitely a fantasy series all right. Anything else is still up in the air.

The trailer did a fantastic job of telling us absolutely nothing about this series.

I'm still vaguely hopeful, but it wasn't exactly a prequel I wanted anyway. As long as it's good enough, I'll be happy.
 

mole

Active Member
Looks great to me, can't wait.
 

Stay Puft

Active Member
Apart from pure greed to add to already inflated bank accounts, I wonder where the money paid will actually go. Certainly not towards helping the world be a better place.
 

The Thorne

Well-known Member
Americans shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near Tolkien’s body of work. They just don’t get it. My suspension of disbelief gets immediately shattered when I see they’ve cast loads of heart throb-type teens. It’s a real pity, because the production values look to be of an exceptionally high standard. I’ll probably watch it, and just cast aside any notion that it represents JRRT in any shape or form.
If they are elves I have no issue with that, they are meant to be stunningly beautiful male or female and to be fair, theyd be hard pushed to find any prettier than Orlando Bloom.

But for the other races, its not important better to look world wearing and rugged like Sean Bean or Viggo Mortensen both almost cast perfectly imo.

I have no minds eye attachments for the Second age so they are free to do what they want basically. Also as for being colour blind, again I dont mind that but I find casting a black actor or actress as an elf a bit jarring, unless they are dark elves but we will see what they do. But really I shouldnt as the elves we have seen so far in film have been pretty much Moriquendi who are “Elves of Darkness.”, with the exception of Galadriel who is Calaquendi and they have different racial traits between each tribe. So really it can work so hope haters see this but they wont.

What I do mind is dwarven women not having beards really!!
 
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cezarL

Member
Also as for being colour blind, again I dont mind that but I find casting a black actor or actress as an elf a bit jarring, unless they are dark elves but we will see what they do.
If you mean to suggest that elves are not all in on diversity and inclusion, I'm here to tell you you are mistaken! They most certainly are, nowadays. :D
Dwarves and hobbits and ents and orcs and trolls too, even the nazgul would have been, had there been more of them around.
All these folks just weren't woke yet when JRRT wrote them in... he ought to be cancelled, by the way :rotfl:
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
If they are elves I have no issue with that, they are meant to be stunningly beautiful male or female and to be fair, theyd be hard pushed to find any prettier than Orlando Bloom.

But for the other races, its not important better to look world wearing and rugged like Sean Bean or Viggo Mortensen both almost cast perfectly imo.

I have no minds eye attachments for the Second age so they are free to do what they want basically. Also as for being colour blind, again I dont mind that but I find casting a black actor or actress as an elf a bit jarring, unless they are dark elves but we will see what they do. But really I shouldnt as the elves we have seen so far in film have been pretty much Moriquendi who are “Elves of Darkness.”, with the exception of Galadriel who is Calaquendi and they have different racial traits between each tribe. So really it can work so hope haters see this but they wont.

What I do mind is dwarven women not having beards really!!
Interesting points. I think its legitimate to be critical without necessarily being a hater. I think there are arguments for and against diversity casting in this particular property, which we could delve into. Primarily though what annoys some people is the cynical and lazy thought process behind it, rather than any imaginative drive to expand the mythology. For example we know there are regions of middle earth inhabited by darker skinned peoples such as Harad; why not explore those in a meaningful way? But no it's easier to just cast 'the first black elf' and 'the first black dwarf' and pat themselves on the back for it on twitter. As if they are 'improving' on a great work, instead of being deeply humbled by it and treating it as sacrosanct.

I'll keep an open mind, it all comes down to the execution at the end of the day. Also I like Morfydd Clark from Saint Maud, so she might make a great Galadriel.
 

QuestShield

Distinguished Member
Only the male dwarf looks the part otherwise it looks to be ticking diversity boxes instead of trying to stay true to the source material.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
I'm not really interested in this at all if I'm honest. I'll no doubt take a look purely because it's Lord of the Rings, but it's not really something I feel we need. We know what happened with the Rings being given out by Sauron and what it led to.
 

lucasisking

Distinguished Member
I'll give it two or three episodes and then decide if my affection for the films is better off with or without it.

My major concern is that its going to feel too current. The selling point of LOTR is that its a complete mythology and fictional pre-history, and with that comes this immersive sense of antiquity. Civilisations and beings that are truly ancient. So when the show runner says things like "we want it to reflect the world we live in today" (paraphrasing) it sets off every alarm bell I've got.
 

QuestShield

Distinguished Member
Yep the last time I watched the extended editions of Peter Jackson's incredible trilogy a few days apart it gave me an incredible sense of adventure in a huge organic fictional world that I only really got before playing The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild.
If this TV show captures that essence, then bravo.
 

The Thorne

Well-known Member
Interesting points. I think its legitimate to be critical without necessarily being a hater. I think there are arguments for and against diversity casting in this particular property, which we could delve into. Primarily though what annoys some people is the cynical and lazy thought process behind it, rather than any imaginative drive to expand the mythology. For example we know there are regions of middle earth inhabited by darker skinned peoples such as Harad; why not explore those in a meaningful way? But no it's easier to just cast 'the first black elf' and 'the first black dwarf' and pat themselves on the back for it on twitter. As if they are 'improving' on a great work, instead of being deeply humbled by it and treating it as sacrosanct.

I'll keep an open mind, it all comes down to the execution at the end of the day. Also I like Morfydd Clark from Saint Maud, so she might make a great Galadriel.
The more I look into this the more right I see you are right , they could have done this in an acceptable way and it looks like they have failed in so many ways especially with major changes to characters.

That’s what I get for judging something based on a 80 second trailer, it seems the judgement had already been done with the press photos.
 

DrPhil

Distinguished Member
The argument being made is that in this day and age, diversity is essential. I get that, but the point is that Tolkien's work and his world was written in a different time and that should be respected.

Different if his world was actively racist or misogynistic, in that case I'd probably just say to bin it rather than try to change it.

But to respect the depth of his work, you need to treat it as though it is a historic record rather than fantasy. As such, shoehorning in Latino elves, black female dwarves (without beards) etc is no different than making films set in the trenches of WW1 and having 50% of the soldiers female, black, Muslim, LBGT etc.
 
Why does this look so bad to thoae who know the books? I don't read fantasy and thought the trailer looked ok, but those who know the source material seem to just quite Tolkien's "evil" quote at it.
 

gavinhanly

Distinguished Member
Too early to say for me - very much “here’s a teaser, see how it looks like we spent proper money on it”. Could easily go either way at this stage, but hope it’ll be better than The Hobbit…

No probs at all with increased diversity, honestly can’t fathom why it seems to be an issue, particularly after only 90 seconds or so.
 

Mandark

Well-known Member
The argument being made is that in this day and age, diversity is essential. I get that, but the point is that Tolkien's work and his world was written in a different time and that should be respected.

Different if his world was actively racist or misogynistic, in that case I'd probably just say to bin it rather than try to change it.

But to respect the depth of his work, you need to treat it as though it is a historic record rather than fantasy. As such, shoehorning in Latino elves, black female dwarves (without beards) etc is no different than making films set in the trenches of WW1 and having 50% of the soldiers female, black, Muslim, LBGT etc.
I take your point but it works the other way too. WW1 films of the past ignored the fact that there was any diversity in the allied forces. The French brought over boatloads of North African Muslim soldiers to fight. And there was a fuss about the film 1917 because it showed a Sikh soldier with a British unit. The usual suspects cried ‘woke!’ until military historians showed photos of Indian soldiers serving in British units in WW1. WW2 movies aren’t much better.

I think the generation growing up probably no longer care if non white characters are put in roles in dramas that have had traditionally all white casts. People noted that Bridgerton looked too diverse for the time but everyone overlooked it.
 

bilbosmeggins

Distinguished Member
Nah, he was there from the beginning, currying favour with the locals.

“He was on Arda "before the river and the trees", before the first rain and made paths before the Great March of the Eldarand later of the Middle Men and their tombs. He also witnessed the Changing of the World, the arrival of the Exiles of Númenor and the Barrow-wights,[3] but his role and nature in the Elder Days and later is unknown. He also witnessed the reducing of the great forests that covered all Middle-earth, and perhaps of his powers.[4]
 
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DrPhil

Distinguished Member
I take your point but it works the other way too. WW1 films of the past ignored the fact that there was any diversity in the allied forces.
Totally agree, which is why I said "50%".

1917 was I would imagine an accurate and realistic representation of the historical record. A Sikh soldier being among the ranks made perfect sense, maybe even more so than other films which had an all white cast.

Vietnam films (I think) tended to have a realistic number of black soldiers amongst the American troops.

But I don't doubt that in the not too distant future, someone will make a WW2 film featuring a widely diverse cast that simply doesnt make sense, any more than making a film about the Battle of a little Bighorn and having a ginger haired white guy playing Sitting Bull!
 

bilbosmeggins

Distinguished Member
In an attempt to quell the online backlash over the trailer, Amazon decided to cobble up some region-specific “Superfan” reaction videos to, ahem, bring us round to their way of thinking. It hasn’t gone well, and has, instead, introduced a whole new level of hatred to the party. The UK video received such condemnation that it has since been removed.

If these “Superfans” are, indeed, the demographic that Amazon are targeting then this show is clearly not for me. What makes the Amazon “reaction” videos even more distasteful, is the fact that they have all been clearly choreographed and directed.



 

DrPhil

Distinguished Member
Almost worse than the butchered diversity, is that they apparently hired an "intimacy coach" to prepare for a saucy story line with nudity. Something that Tolkien would have been appalled by.

They're completely uninterested in maintaining anything of the spirit of Tolkien's work.
 

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