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Lord Hutton: Further Cuts To Public Sector Pensions?

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Rasczak

Distinguished Member
Some interesting comments from Labour's Lord Hutton:
BBC News - Lord Hutton sees "urgency" for public sector pension deal

Most notably:
Lord Hutton said:
Growth is slower. We know that by 2016 on the latest projections the economy is going to be about 3.5% smaller than we thought it would be.

...

That is going to affect the sustainability of public sector pensions in a negative way.
Could there be further cuts on the way? Given the strikes last week were so ineffective (ending in farce as the Unions tried to blame Clarkson for all their woes), it would seem the Government has free reign to do as they wish.
 

overkill

Distinguished Member
Some interesting comments from Labour's Lord Hutton:
BBC News - Lord Hutton sees "urgency" for public sector pension deal

Most notably:

Could there be further cuts on the way? Given the strikes last week were so ineffective (ending in farce as the Unions tried to blame Clarkson for all their woes), it would seem the Government has free reign to do as they wish.
All this is, is an attempt to persuade the Unions to take what's on offer. Hatton knows they can't win, the Unions know the govt will do as it pleases, but they have to try, that's what Union leaders are elected to do.

Massive numbers went out, and despite the govts attempts to claim otherwise the strike had good support. Hows that ineffective?

I think a record number of complaints shows how offensive Clarkson's comments ere. Nothing to with the TU's.............
 

pragmatic

Distinguished Member
I think a record number of complaints shows how offensive Clarkson's comments ere. Nothing to with the TU's.............

You mean a massive number of people don't understand a concept like context, possibly a massive failing in our education system and/or a sign people believe whatever they read in the media.

As for Hutton, what does he care, he's not part of the government? Which suggests to me him coming forward like this holds more weight than if someone in government said this.

As for good support, you mean the strikers were giving great support to local retailers, I've certainly not talked to anyone who supports them (although I haven't spoke to everyone in the UK, similarly every other survey hasn't).
 

NewMan

Well-known Member
I think a record number of complaints shows how offensive Clarkson's comments ere.

All the record number of complaints show is how many truly dumb people there are in this country... Many of them are in high places in the trade unions, since they were the halfwits talking about law suits, trying to convince people he's guilty of "hate crimes" and is as evil as Gadaffi...


Makes you wonder what other nonsense they might be talking.... :rolleyes:
 

overkill

Distinguished Member
You mean a massive number of people don't understand a concept like context, possibly a massive failing in our education system and/or a sign people believe whatever they read in the media.

As for Hutton, what does he care, he's not part of the government? Which suggests to me him coming forward like this holds more weight than if someone in government said this.

As for good support, you mean the strikers were giving great support to local retailers, I've certainly not talked to anyone who supports them (although I haven't spoke to everyone in the UK, similarly every other survey hasn't).
What context are you talking about? Clarkson was pretty clear about what he said and who he was talking about. How were his comments taken out of context? Do tell.........

As above, Hutton was firing a warning shot across the Unions bows. Try reading before commenting.

The strike had good support amongst it's members. As for opinion poll's quite a few people said they understood why the strike happened.

Support for strikes (among the general public) is generally poor in this country, sadly we aren't living in the real World when it comes to industrial disputes. No-one strikes for the hell of it.
 

overkill

Distinguished Member
All the record number of complaints show is how many truly dumb people there are in this country... Many of them are in high places in the trade unions, since they were the halfwits talking about law suits, trying to convince people he's guilty of "hate crimes" and is as evil as Gadaffi...


Makes you wonder what other nonsense they might be talking.... :rolleyes:
Talking about people being taken out and hung in front of their families is not offensive?

What is offensive to you then? :facepalm:

I don't doubt though, if one of those 'crazy' union leaders said DC should be taken out and hung in front of his family, you'd be the first to be foaming............:rolleyes:
 

NewMan

Well-known Member
Talking about people being taken out and hung in front of their families is not offensive?

What is offensive to you then? :facepalm:

I don't doubt though, if one of those 'crazy' union leaders said DC should be taken out and hung in front of his family, you'd be the first to be foaming............:rolleyes:

I take it you haven't watched the "incident" for yourself then, and have only gone by the carefully edited snippets that have been shown around? If you have seen it, then you clearly have no understanding of context or satire - he was mocking the supposed impartiality of the BBC, not actually suggesting that people be shot (not hung) in front of their families, so take your :facepalm: and apply it firmly to yourself. :smashin:
 

NewMan

Well-known Member
Here's your context:

Key-word in the whole thing / joke here is the word "balance". Here is the full transcript of the offending interview, just to highlight really the press are selling you a slightly false story...

Matt Baker [presenter]: Well, Jeremy, schools, hospitals, airports, even driving tests, have all been affected. Do you think the strikes have been a good idea?

Jeremy Clarkson [guest]: I think they have been fantastic. Absolutely. London today has just been empty. Everybody stayed at home, you can whizz about, restaurants are empty.

Alex Jones: The traffic, actually, has been very good today.

Jeremy Clarkson: Airports, people streaming through with no problems at all. And it's also like being back in the 70s. It makes me feel at home somehow.

Matt Baker: Do you know anyone who has been on strike today?

Jeremy Clarkson: Of course I don't, no. What, somebody public service? No, I don't. No, absolutely. But we have to balance this though, because this is the BBC.

Matt Baker: Yes, exactly.

Jeremy Clarkson: Frankly, I'd have them all shot. I would take them outside and execute them in front of their families. I mean, how dare they go on strike when they have these gilt-edged pensions that are going to be guaranteed while the rest of us have to work for a living.

Matt Baker: Well, on that note of balancing an opinion, of course those are Jeremy's views.

Alex Jones: Only Jeremy's views.

Jeremy Clarkson: They're not. I've just given two views for you.

So not only is he NOT actually suggesting that people be shot, he also quite clearly pointed out that those were NOT his views, merely two opposing views to provide "impartiality" since he works for the BBC.

But of course, you can't climb down of your high horse now, you'll look stupid, so I eagerly await the reason why he was still advocating shooting people, and why he's as bad as Gadaffi/Hitler/Hussein/Amin/Pol Pot <delete dictator as applies>. :facepalm:
 

pragmatic

Distinguished Member
What context are you talking about? Clarkson was pretty clear about what he said and who he was talking about. How were his comments taken out of context? Do tell.........

This suggests to me that you are part of the very group I mentioned in my previous post, thanks for showing your ignorance :thumbsup:

Why would Hutton want to fire a warning shot, he is not in government, but please do educate me as I clearly need it here (no sarcasm but rather I don't understand were your coming from).
 
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travid

Distinguished Member
Trouble is that Clarkson has now called victims of suicide selfish.

His comments on strikers was daft, but he does himself no favours buy insulting this vunerable group.

As for Hutton its such a coincidence that it came after the democratic strikes by .PS workers. The right to strike and the right to free speech have certainly been brought into focus recently
 

NewMan

Well-known Member
Trouble is that Clarkson has now called victims of suicide selfish.

Aside from the fact that in Beetlejuice it's stated that all suicides are destined to work as Civil Servants in the afterlife, I don't see how the two comments are related.... :D

I've not seen the suicide comment, so can't really comment too much, but unless he implied that people were committing suicide because of the strikes, then it's really got nothing to do with his previous comment... Though if it was said in the context I've heard it was, then yeah, it was dumb. Offensive? No, but then I'm not the sort of person who's just dying to take offense at stuff on someone elses behalf.
 

travid

Distinguished Member
You dont feel offended for other people? In this case he had a joke people who have commited suicide etc, not against people who can defend themselves. I dont feel offended for them, I feel offeded all my own thanks !

PS It was in regard to the disruption caused by those "selfish" enough to kill themselves on a train/tube line
 
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NewMan

Well-known Member
You dont feel offended for other people? In this case he had a joke people who have commited suicide etc, not against people who can defend themselves. I dont feel offended for them, I feel offeded all my own thanks !

My best friend killed himself in 2003, and I loved that man like he was my own brother. I still break down and cry every so often when I think about him, and how he'd have known exactly what to say to get me through crap that I've gone through in the past few years - and wish I had known he was hurting so bad.

Is my being offended going to bring him back? Is someone making a joke in poor taste going to make him any more dead?
 

travid

Distinguished Member
Thats a tragic story and you are so bloody honest in writing about it.

I think there has to be a limit or point at which that some comments are simply too offensive and/or should not be used in such a flippant way.
 

leedswillprevai

Active Member
I don't think it's about stupidity by people, it's more they are just SICK of it all. So for Jeremy Clarkson who is a friend of David Cameron to come out and say what he did was a bridge too far. Yes I understand the context and yes he was just trying to get a rise out of people but let's be truthful here. Clarkson wouldn't DARE say anything about the financial fraud, wouldn't dare speak out about the hundreds of biillions which have been forced upon the people of this country. So in terms of real impartiality, I think not, he was just using "comedy" to thinly hide his contempt for those in the public sector. By the way, I actually Clarkson but he is a loud mouth idiot.

As for the thread, the premise seems to be that well private sector pensions have been driven into the toilet, it's only fair that the public sector follows suit. I couldn't think of a more perverse reasoning but this is actually what the ruling classes want private vs public, divide and conquer. So on that note, it's time that people figured out that we are being plundered. Did I not read that the conservatives are now looking to enshrine into law "their right" to give billions and billions each year in foreign aid.
 

NewMan

Well-known Member
Thats a tragic story and you are so bloody honest in writing about it.

I think there has to be a limit or point at which that some comments are simply too offensive and/or should not be used in such a flippant way.

I suppose in the end, offense is ultimately a subjective thing, what may be offensive to one person won't be to another - I guess dumb comments which were clearly not meant to be taken seriously just don't fall into my "take offense immediately" category. If he'd actually been running for political office or something with that particular viewpoint, I might have felt there was something to be offended about.

To keep in line with my previous comments about the "shoot strikers" thing - he was clearly making a jibe about BBC impartiality, and as such, there's nothing that anyone should be getting offended about, since he clearly stated they weren't his actual views.

We could all become humourless automatons to keep the rest of the humourless automatons happy, but what'd be the point of living? I think some people need to go out and do more of this thing called "living" and not just sit indoors vainly hoping for their next moral crusade to begin.
 

sidicks

Banned
I don't think it's about stupidity by people, it's more they are just SICK of it all. So for Jeremy Clarkson who is a friend of David Cameron to come out and say what he did was a bridge too far. Yes I understand the context and yes he was just trying to get a rise out of people but let's be truthful here. Clarkson wouldn't DARE say anything about the financial fraud, wouldn't dare speak out about the hundreds of biillions which have been forced upon the people of this country.
Depsite all the evidence to the contrary, I see you are still insisting on quoting this 'hundreds of billions' ********.....
:facepalm:

So in terms of real impartiality, I think not, he was just using "comedy" to thinly hide his contempt for those in the public sector. By the way, I actually Clarkson but he is a loud mouth idiot.

As for the thread, the premise seems to be that well private sector pensions have been driven into the toilet, it's only fair that the public sector follows suit. I couldn't think of a more perverse reasoning but this is actually what the ruling classes want private vs public, divide and conquer.

No, the premise for the reduction in public sector pensions is threefold:
1) the costs have risen hugely since they were proposed and the contributions made by employees are a small fraction of the costs (and should have been increased 10+ years ago)

2) It is therefore unfair that private sector workers, who in many cases cannot afford to fund their own pensions, have to endure a significant tax burden to fund public sector pensions

3) Public sector salaries are now much closer to private sector equivalent salaries meaning the justification for having these benefits is no longer there.

So on that note, it's time that people figured out that we are being plundered. Did I not read that the conservatives are now looking to enshrine into law "their right" to give billions and billions each year in foreign aid.
Governments of both hues have been strong supporters of foreign aid, not least because of the supposed economic benefits that it brings to this country.
:hiya:
Sidicks
 

NewMan

Well-known Member
You actually read his whole post? I stopped reading when he implied that it was because Clarkson is a friend of Cameron that his comments were wrong...
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
My best friend killed himself in 2003, and I loved that man like he was my own brother. I still break down and cry every so often when I think about him, and how he'd have known exactly what to say to get me through crap that I've gone through in the past few years - and wish I had known he was hurting so bad.

Is my being offended going to bring him back? Is someone making a joke in poor taste going to make him any more dead?

he reminds of me of an Alf Garnet with an A level and a posh voice holding court in pub where he can exercise his bigotry.His wife has stated he has always been like he is the only difference now is he does it to a bigger audience.His family were pretty much the same and they all share a complete inability to empathise with people who dont think like them.Only in this country do we see fit to throw a million pounds a year at someone to spout **** on regular basis.The Beeb would do well to caste him off which apparently he wants them to do hence the ever increasing abhorrent comments.The latest was particularly nasty.If i was on a train and there was a suicide i would feel shocked , horrified and not a little sad.I certainly wouldnt be making the kind of comments he made
 

la gran siete

Distinguished Member
Clarkson but he is a loud mouth idiot.

yup
As for the thread, the premise seems to be that well private sector pensions have been driven into the toilet, it's only fair that the public sector follows suit. I couldn't think of a more perverse reasoning but this is actually what the ruling classes want private vs public, divide and conquer. So on that note, it's time that people figured out that we are being plundered. Did I not read that the conservatives are now looking to enshrine into law "their right" to give billions and billions each year in foreign aid.

absolutely correct
 

travid

Distinguished Member
This political angle at this time is moot surely? Labour is hardly a party of the left wing isn't it?

Getting back to the OP's point, did Hutton have all the facts before the original report, or have things changed that much since it was published?
 

sidicks

Banned
la gran siete said:
absolutely correct

Absolutely incorrect (unless you can provide any evidence to dispute the points I've made??)
:confused:
Sudicks
 

sidicks

Banned
travid said:
This political angle at this time is moot surely? Labour is hardly a party of the left wing isn't it?

Getting back to the OP's point, did Hutton have all the facts before the original report, or have things changed that much since it was published?

The Hutton report included some GDP projections which, with the ongoing turmoil in Europe and the impact on the UK, now look wildly optimistic.
:(
Sidicks
 
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