Looping Back The Satellite Feed Help Please

AndrewBerkshire

Standard Member
First of all apologies for my ignorance of the subject.

Couple of answers/help needed. I've attached a diagram of my setup.

I moved into a new build home recently. I have an old satellite receiver receiving Cyfra+. No sky. We had a generic dish installed when we moved in to pick up the reception. The socket where the TV/satellite receiver are contains the following:- two sat points, 1 TV point, 1 FM/DAB point. Upon unscrewing the socket there is also another cable in the socket box. A return feed I imagine. As it's a new build this socket is intended for Sky+ cabling. But obviously I don't use it for that. So, I only use 1 cable and there are two spare in the socket.

What I want to do is to feed the signal from the satellite receiver back up to the loft and then feed it into all the remainder of the TV points. So that in all the other rooms of the house where there is a TV point I will be able to receive the 1 channel on those TVs which is on the satellite receiver. I completely understand that it will be the one channel on the receiver. I am fine with this.

What are my options and how do I do this? The satellite receiver is very old (about 8-10 years). Do I need an RF modulator next to the receiver? Something like this? UHF Mini RF Modulator(MOD111).
So the connections would be (?);- from the sat out of the satellite receiver, into the RF modulator (Ant In), then out of the RF modulator into the feed (To TV) back up to the loft? Or is it best to get a new satellite receiver which has a built in RF modulator? Might be best as I wouldn't mind recording programmes to watch later. Completely open to this idea too, as long as the receiver is able to recognise the Cyfra+ card.

Then once I have the return feed sorted and the cable is in my hands in the loft with the feed from the satellite receiver what do I do with that cable? I have an Optima DA6 6-way amp up there too and a diplexer.

The diagram attached is a diagram of how the satellite/tv installer installed the cabling. I hope that helps. Greyed out TV points are because I don't use those TV points at the moment. I also added the make of the sat receiver on the diagram if that helps.

:lease:

Any help would be really fantastic. Thanks!

Andrew
 

Attachments

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pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
you can do it either by adding an rf modulator or getting a new receiver with a modulator-

Triax Tri-link modulators also allow remote control from other tvs in other rooms of the receiver & another device and work with sky's magic eye system & include power to power an rf distribution amp & a local rf out for the tv in the lounge.

or swap to a technomate like a tm5400 or tm5402hd that have modulators & will run the card & have record options .. they are single tuner but the 5402 will record up to 3 clear or scrambled channels while watching another on one tp - handy for most subscription card sevices

downlink a coax from the aerial or that box - through the trilink or basic modulator or stb with modulator - back up to the loft to an rf distribution amp & from there to all rooms.... use decent coax & screened wall plates.
 

logiciel

Moderator
Then once I have the return feed sorted and the cable is in my hands in the loft with the feed from the satellite receiver what do I do with that cable? I have an Optima DA6 6-way amp up there
Welcome to AVF Andrew, and it's fine about asking - that's what we're here for.
You combine the Return feed from the satellite machine with the feed from the terrestrial aerial into the socket at the far right of the distributor and amplifier.
 
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pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
Welcome to AVF Andrew, and it's fine about asking - that's what we're here for.
You combine the Return feed with the satellite machine with the feed from the terrestrial aerial into the socket at the far right of the distributor and amplifier.

no that's not right - the diagram isn't right the way it's laid out

rewire it as per...

1) feed the AERIAL straight to the diplexer [& not to the rf amp & then from the rf amp to diplexer].

2) split them on the media plate in the lounge - RF to the rf input on the modulator [whichever option you choose] & sat to lnb in on the sat receiver

3) then use that 'RET' to take the RF out back up to the rf amp 'in' where the aerial is now.

4) then all outputs carry the DTV & the 1 channel from the sat box.. and if you used the Tri-link - the IR signals both ways & power if needed [if they work together].

You may want to go down the twin tuner route so that second sat will do for that but straight to the 2nd lnb in.


edit - don't really like diplexing if you can avoid but if it is all clean enough then it should be OK -

also, as I said.. use decent coax & screened plates throughout if possible - just on an rf dist' job & 10 mins ago .. found yet another customer's short rf flylead that looks OK on the outside but wasn't inside & messed up an rf dist system & flat screen's dtv tuner's s/w.... won't buy them in anymore - just make decent ones so you know what's in 'em!
 
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AndrewBerkshire

Standard Member
Replied just as you replied pedro2000uk.

I'll read through your post when I get some time later on and reply if I have any further questions, if that's ok.

If it makes any difference I'm very interested in the tm5402hd. And will probably upgrade. Perhaps this makes it easier.

Thank-you.

Andrew
 
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AndrewBerkshire

Standard Member
Ok, kinda confused now.

So the TV signal goes down to the receiver then gets fed back up to the loft before it goes back around to the rest of the TVs?

My signal isn't strong as it is, won't this deteriorate it? I'm not sure if I will get a strong enough signal unless the TV signal goes into the amp first.

Also I'm confused now what happens with point #2. So with that option I have the diplexer joining sat and TV and both going down the one cable. Then how do I split them in the lounge? Which is the RF now? The split was sat and TV I thought?

Sorry, but logiciels reply seemed so easy.. if wrong? :(
(no clue about twin tuners)

Andrew
 

logiciel

Moderator
no that's not right - the diagram isn't right the way it's laid out
It is right the way the diagram is laid out - but I agree that the diagram isn't the right - or the best - way to do it.
The aerial feed should go direct, or straight as in point 1, to the satellite receiver.
Then the only feed to the distributor would be the Return from the receiver.
On point 2 I was assuming that the wallplate is already doing the de-plexing.
 

pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
Ok, kinda confused now.

So the TV signal goes down to the receiver then gets fed back up to the loft before it goes back around to the rest of the TVs?

YES.. That's the way it's done in over a million homes for Sky around the house & it's almost the same for you.

My signal isn't strong as it is, won't this deteriorate it? I'm not sure if I will get a strong enough signal unless the TV signal goes into the amp first.

It's the diplexer that is the issue- they add noise & drop signal- if you can, avoid it .. you might be able to add a coax run or re-use the coax for the spare SAT2... otherwise, stick a basic masthead amp in line to boost the aerial before it goes into the diplexer- pull the aerial out of that rf amp = plug it into the masthead amp - then out to the diplxer - even better to use a decent aerial if poss [not as easy]

Also I'm confused now what happens with point #2. So with that option I have the diplexer joining sat and TV and both going down the one cable. Then how do I split them in the lounge?

Have you not got a media wall plate with these on? .if not you need to get one - plenty of options - you just need the rf & sat split & if you do have fm & dab those too plus second sat & uplink mounted sockets/ plugs.


Which is the RF now? The split was sat and TV I thought? [Sorry RF = TV]

Sorry, but logiciels reply seemed so easy.. if wrong? :(
(no clue about twin tuners) twin tuner satellite receivers allow you to record one channel while watching any other

Andrew

answered in bold......
 

AndrewBerkshire

Standard Member
Thank you. Really appreciate your time. I'll go with the masthead amp prior to the diplexer if I get reception problems.

So I understand everything now other than the connections in the lounge.
I'll have sat and RF (TV) out from the media wall plate. If I invest in a TM5402 HD what are the connections between the media wall plate, the TM5402 and the actual Television?

And also which connection from the back of the TM5402 goes to the return cable to return to the loft and into the 6 way RF amp?

A couple of pictures of the media wall plate attached. As I mentioned previously, I checked inside the plate and it also has one other sat cable not attached to anything. Which I imagine is another return cable. I think they just scrimped on a better plate and left the cable unattached.

Andrew
 

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logiciel

Moderator
Sat1 to receiver, receiver to TV by HDMI, receiver RF Out to Return by co-ax, are what should happen.
The problem is that there is no Return socket for the co-ax to plug into!
Sat2 would come into use only if you went instead for a receiver with twin tuners.
It would be connected direct to a second output socket on the LNB and the spare cable may be for that.
 
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pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
Thank you. Really appreciate your time. I'll go with the masthead amp prior to the diplexer if I get reception problems.

So I understand everything now other than the connections in the lounge.
I'll have sat and RF (TV) out from the media wall plate. If I invest in a TM5402 HD what are the connections between the media wall plate, the TM5402 TV ANT IN and the actual Television? Loads ... HDMI (or SCART X 2 COMPOSITE & ON 3 X PHONO/ COMPONENT- RGB / & S-PDIF)..

And also which connection from the back of the TM5402 goes to the return cable to return to the loft and into the 6 way RF amp? RF OUT - but where is the unused RET- it's not on that plate . or is that either SAT2 OR RET.

A couple of pictures of the media wall plate attached. As I mentioned previously, I checked inside the plate and it also has one other sat cable not attached to anything. Which I imagine is another return cable. I think they just scrimped on a better plate and left the cable unattached.

Andrew

ANSWERED in text in bold


except to cover for DTV from the aerial in the lounge to the TV's DTV tuner - if it's an stb then just loop through it... but if not you need an rf splitter- a little messy - the trilink & sky boxes provide a 2nd rf out for the lounge tv.
 
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logiciel

Moderator
And presumably the question "is that either SAT2 OR RET" is the answer to the "problem" in my post. :)
 

AndrewBerkshire

Standard Member
There is a loose cable in the wall plate..
So there are three coax cables present in the plate. But only 2 attached to the connections. Second pic shows it loose on the right.

So TV on wall plate socket goes to TV ANT In on the TM5402.
Sat 1 on wall plate socket goes to LNB input on the TM5402.
Connected to the TV via HDMI.
Return comes out of RF Out back up to the loft to go back into the RF amp to feed back around the rest of the house.

That sound correct?

Andrew
 

AndrewBerkshire

Standard Member
ANSWERED in text in bold


except to cover for DTV from the aerial in the lounge to the TV's DTV tuner - if it's an stb then just loop through it... but if not you need an rf splitter- a little messy - the trilink & sky boxes provide a 2nd rf out for the lounge tv.

It's an integrated built in TV tuner. I might just get someone over before I do anything. One step forward one step back for me :)
 

AndrewBerkshire

Standard Member
And presumably the question "is that either SAT2 OR RET" is the answer to the "problem" in my post. :)

Three coax cables present in the media plate box coming out of the wall. Two that are attached to the connections (SAT1 & SAT2). One is loose and not connnected. Hence I said I think they just didn't bother putting on the correct plate for whatever reason. The amount of cables in the loft are consistent with this extra loose cable feeding back up there.
 

logiciel

Moderator
Connected to the TV via HDMI.
That sound correct?
Yes, except connected both by HDMI and by co-ax from modulator to TV Aerial In.
If the modulator has only one output you could try a splitter for it to connect to Return as well.
Presumably SAT2 is doing nothing now, but can you trace what's at the other end of its cable?
It might be intended for use as Return, another point that Pedro mentioned.
 

AndrewBerkshire

Standard Member
Hi,

SAT2 coax cable & the other coax cable which I presume is the return are doing nothing. I can trace these back up into the loft, where they end up as dead end leads. These are completely spare coax cables.

So even with having a TM5402 I still need a further splitter to split the RF from it to TV to be able to tune the TV? And send the split signal back up to the loft through one of the coax cables to distribute around the house?
What kind of deterioration of signal will I get? Currently sending it through a masthead amp, then diplexer then receiver then splitter back up to the rf amp.

Feel like I'm treading water here.. seemed like quite a simple thing.
Sorry for my ignorance.

Andrew
 
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pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
Hi,

SAT2 coax cable & the other coax cable which I presume is the return are doing nothing. I can trace these back up into the loft, where they end up as dead end leads. These are completely spare coax cables.

So even with having a TM5402 I still need a further splitter to split the RF from it to TV to be able to tune the TV? And send the split signal back up to the loft through one of the coax cables to distribute around the house?
What kind of deterioration of signal will I get? Currently sending it through a masthead amp, then diplexer then receiver then splitter back up to the rf amp.

Feel like I'm treading water here.. seemed like quite a simple thing.
Sorry for my ignorance.

Andrew

What you can do is just use that 2nd spare coax to pipe down the same signal from your RF amp to the lounge TV for it's DTV tuner as all rooms get & no splitter in the wrong place.
 

logiciel

Moderator
You're OK Andrew - most people are on some sort of learning curve,:)
The SAT2 cable is for connecting to a second output on the LNB, so that you can change to a PVR and record one channel while watching another.
The other one, that needs connecting at both ends, could be for a new Return socket at one end and as the input to the distributor at the other.
Alternatively SAT2 could become Return by being input to the distributor.
 

AndrewBerkshire

Standard Member
Thanks. I've updated the diagram.
Does this look correct now?

So with this setup...

- The satellite signal comes out of the satellite receiver from the RF Out. So the RF Out takes the one satellite channel around the house along with terrestrial channels? Is that thinking correct?
- Will I be able to record a different channel to the one I am watching on the receiver?
- I still have a spare SAT2 - could I utilise it to remove the need for the diplexer if loss of signal is bad?

Thanks again.

Andrew
 

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logiciel

Moderator
Very good Andrew and it's correct in the sense that it would work, but it raises further possibilities.
Do you really need a diplexer at all? You have enough cables to and sockets on the plate to allow direct connection from dish to SAT1 - and SAT2 if required - and from aerial to TV.
You're showing TV ANT In on the Techno, but you get that only if you add the modulator and it has an Aerial In socket.
The feed to the TV's TV In socket doesn't have to go all the way around the circuit. It could share the output of the modulator.
The answer to the first question is that it does work that way.
On the second to do that you normally need a machine with twin tuners and two connections to the dish, but some machines have clever ways to get around that to a limited extent.
The SAT2 socket isn't involved in the diplexing at all, but it does have the possibility to be used as the Return socket - simply with the wrong name.:)
 

AndrewBerkshire

Standard Member
OK - thanks. Why do I need a modulator now? I thought the 5420 already has a built in modulator?

Also Pedro stated above - the 5402 will record up to 3 clear or scrambled channels while watching another on one tp. So my question was related to my proposed setup. With the setup this will still be possible?

I could split the TV feed from the media wall plate to go both into the receiver TV ant in as well as the TV in? (so i don't have to feed that back around)?

My ignorance is seeing conflicting information from you both. I understand you are trying to be helpful. So frustrating :blush: I hope I have the patience to stick with this!

Andrew
 

pedro2000uk

Distinguished Member
...
My ignorance is seeing conflicting information from you both. I understand you are trying to be helpful. So frustrating :blush: I hope I have the patience to stick with this!

Andrew


you're not kidding ..

your diagram is spot on ... - you can add a single media wall plate at the side for the 2 extra RET & TV's RF- [a screened one]

no you don't need a modulator & yes you can still record up to 3 channels while watching a 4th on the same TP..
 

logiciel

Moderator
My Techno doesn't have RF connections so I checked at their web site on that point for the 5402 before posting and couldn't see anything to suggest that it has either.
Sky are something of an exception in satellite machines by involving terrestrial TV.
The web site claims that the 5402 "can record 3 channels and watch one from same TP with optional external disk".
My 6800 can do something like that but the restriction to the same TP is quite substantial and in fact that facility has never even been tried.
On splitting my reference was to the scenario in which the connection from the aerial goes direct into the receiver - or the modulator. The main TV then needs a feed from the receiver's - or modulator's - RF Out socket to get its Freeview. Another feed is needed from there for the Return connection. To get both of them you have to split the output - unless it's a modulator with two separate outputs.

As I was slow we already have the answer from Pedro but I have to ask him - can he confirm that the 5402 has an Aerial Out socket, and can he expand on how to do the simultaneous recording and watching? :)
 
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