looking to upgrade my AV system ... need some advice and suggestions without breaking the bank

Baron Mole

Active Member
You are stepping quite far away from the original budget 1k£ - 1,5k£.

MA typically refresh ranges about 4-5years apart so the Silver range is next in line and that will be end of this year or next year. No official word when. If it would happen this year then you would start seeing price drops and offers for them. It would be terrible to see new range coming just when you have bought something.
Yes and yes. I'd strongly suggest you don't buy anything however 'good' the deal until you're in the house.

The first thing to nail down is your seating position, the TV position and hence the speaker positions. If you put the TV opposite the bay window with seating in front as is implied in your diagram, then it will be almost impossible to get the speakers in the right place for satisfactory 5.1 sound. I think you should be looking at placing the TV firing down the length of room.
 

RogerDingo

Member
I believe the @RogerDingo already has some stands he could potentially use with the 100's. If they are suitable this would add nothing to the cost.

yeah that is correct..
i bought these not long ago as i needed something to plop my wall mounted speakers on since i wasnt gonna drill them in.


they arent the prettiest things around but do the trick for now.
if they arent fit for purpose or are a complete eyesore for whichever speakers i end up getting then ill invest in new ones:thumbsup:
 

RogerDingo

Member
You are stepping quite far away from the original budget 1k£ - 1,5k£.

yeah i know.. this definitely crossed my mind but i also want to make sure i get the best bang for my buck. As this will be a long term investment and i expect to hold onto these for at least 10 years then i feel i can justify the expense.

if the kit is right and it ticks all the boxes then increasing my budget isnt really a massive concern as i can afford it... when setting my original budget i didnt know anything about any of this, the original budget was based on the 2700 model.
The goal posts have definitely moved now thats for sure but i feel its for the better.

MA typically refresh ranges about 4-5years apart so the Silver range is next in line and that will be end of this year or next year. No official word when. If it would happen this year then you would start seeing price drops and offers for them. It would be terrible to see new range coming just when you have bought something.

well hopefully itll be sometime next year as thats when ill be planning on buying... time will tell i guess... once im ready we'll see whats going on in the AV world and ill figure it out then :)
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
All this theoretical advice is fine, but I think you need to go and listen to say the Bronze v the Silvers to get an idea whether spending twice as much is worth it to you.
1000% Agree with this
 

RogerDingo

Member
Yes and yes. I'd strongly suggest you don't buy anything however 'good' the deal until you're in the house.

The first thing to nail down is your seating position, the TV position and hence the speaker positions. If you put the TV opposite the bay window with seating in front as is implied in your diagram, then it will be almost impossible to get the speakers in the right place for satisfactory 5.1 sound. I think you should be looking at placing the TV firing down the length of room.

i completely agree with you... i feel the tv positioning on the wall opposite the bay window will make things very difficult.
wont be buying anything until all the furniture is set in place and we know exactly where the tv / couch are going...

there will be a lot of moving around till we get the best layout sorted... only then will i buy :)
 

RogerDingo

Member
All this theoretical advice is fine, but I think you need to go and listen to say the Bronze v the Silvers to get an idea whether spending twice as much is worth it to you.
totally agree... theres a richer sound not far from my place so i will go in one day and have a listen
:thumbsup:
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
It's not just about the visual match. LCR speakers should use identical drive units. Hence I repeat the Manufacturers (and my) advice 50s and 200s match the C150, and 100s, 300, and 500s match the C350.
Totally get this and appreciate it for sure.

Fwiw and from a personal point of view I demo'd the C350 with both the 100's (as recommended) and the 200's imo, to my (admittedly untrained ears), sonically it blended perfectly with both of them

Some people will agree with me, others with you/MA. Both opinions are valid and as always I'd suggest individuals interested, search the forum/Web and do the comparison themselves to reach their own conclusions. 👍🏼
 
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Jester1066

Well-known Member
@mascholes to add to my comment above. The 100's (like the 50's and C150) doesn't have the extra mid range driver found in the C350, 300 & 500. Afaik (but am happy to be corrected), the other drivers - such as C-cam tweeter and bass drivers - are the same tech (except physical driver size)...

The 100's don't contain the extra mid range driver, but can be paired with the C350 (according to MA). Likewise the 200's lack the mid range driver, but aren't recommended by MA?

It's this I don't understand. Since the driver tech in the 200's is the same as the 100's 🤷‍♂️.... Do you have any thoughts on this?

Clearly there is a reason other than visually, but having listened to both configurations, as I said I personally couldn't hear any negative drop/change in sonics across the LCR - with a 200/350 pairing.

Of course I appreciate others may feel/find different conclusions to my own 😊
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
well hopefully itll be sometime next year as thats when ill be planning on buying... time will tell i guess... once im ready we'll see whats going on in the AV world and ill figure it out then :)

Chatted with my dealer and i got information that new Silver range should be introduced this year at some point. But as you are not in rush you can spend time listening many brands to find what you like. Also there should be better receiver prices next year when we have more competition and also new models coming spring/summer 2022. If spending big bucks i would also consider dual subwoofers so you get more even response for you/Mrs/friends. For SVS woofers you get at least 10% discount always when you buy them from AVForums advertisers, who knows if more when buying duals! You need to spend your money wisely to get balanced system, not going for few extra features with X4700H as the X3700H will do the job as good (10watt difference in real world tests = they will sound identical). Also spend more for speakers as they will be kept longer and will be more important.

 

RogerDingo

Member
hatted with my dealer and i got information that new Silver range should be introduced this year at some point. But as you are not in rush you can spend time listening many brands to find what you like. Also there should be better receiver prices next year when we have more competition and also new models coming spring/summer 2022.

awesome.. thats good to hear... bring on the price drop!
as you say not in a major rush at the moment but i will certainly keep an eye on the market now

Also spend more for speakers as they will be kept longer and will be more important.
totally agree with this


thanks for the tips!
 

Baron Mole

Active Member
@mascholes to add to my comment above. The 100's (like the 50's and C150) doesn't have the extra mid range driver found in the C350, 300 & 500. Afaik (but am happy to be corrected), the other drivers - such as C-cam tweeter and bass drivers - are the same tech (except physical driver size)...

The 100's don't contain the extra mid range driver, but can be paired with the C350 (according to MA). Likewise the 200's lack the mid range driver, but aren't recommended by MA?

It's this I don't understand. Since the driver tech in the 200's is the same as the 100's 🤷‍♂️.... Do you have any thoughts on this?

Clearly there is a reason other than visually, but having listened to both configurations, as I said I personally couldn't hear any negative drop/change in sonics across the LCR - with a 200/350 pairing.

Of course I appreciate others may feel/find different conclusions to my own
I think you've got the answer there.

I don't want to make too big a deal about this (no really!) - we're talking about marginal levels of difference between models, and it's of course about what works for you, your ears, budget and meets your requirements.

My reading of MA's advice is that the C150, 50s and 200 all use the same tweeter and 5.25" bass and midbass, so the tonal characteristics will precisely match.

With the rest of the range it's a little less clear cut other than the fact that the 5.25" isn't used. The implication I see is that the 8", the 6", and 4" drivers are more tonally matched - but that's just my speculation :D
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I don't want to make too big a deal about this (no really!) - we're talking about marginal levels of difference between models, and it's of course about what works for you, your ears, budget and meets your requirements.
Agreed!....

On a slightly different note I'm tempted by the 300's tbh! Especially if they are reduced sufficiently if/when MA introduce the new Silver range! 🤣🤣🙊🙊...

Really should go to the Dr's - Get this "upgraditus" treated! 👍🏼😉
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
My reading of MA's advice is that the C150, 50s and 200 all use the same tweeter and 5.25" bass and midbass, so the tonal characteristics will precisely match.

With the rest of the range it's a little less clear cut other than the fact that the 5.25" isn't used. The implication I see is that the 8", the 6", and 4" drivers are more tonally matched - but that's just my speculation :D

It won´t be same still cause the C150 is horizontally laying which means it won`t sound same as others staying upright. Using identical speakers in same orientation* would be the most optimal route like we see in real cinemas and pro cinema speakers are usually identical, but this is quite tricky to achieve with tv.

One member bought couple month ago the S200 and heard both C150 & C350 and there was no contest the latter won. I would always pick the C350 if it could be fitted in optimal height / place. It must sound lot more dynamic due to larger drivers and cab volume and doesn`t suffer the usual horizontal speaker issues, at least not as much when the drivers aren´t side by side and there is dedicated mid-range driver. Also if we think about how much center channel put`s out 60-70% likely so again it would make sense to spend the big bucks on the best center channel available in the same range and worry less about having identical drivers all around. The tweeter is still identical.

* example Stereophiles editor Kal Rubinson who has reviewed speakers long time. In one of he´s apartments he uses MA Silver 8 (similar to 300) front three, screen drops in front of the speakers. He didn`t want to compromise with horizontal center channel. He has the Silver 2 (similar to 100) as surrounds.

kalrubinson.jpg
 

Baron Mole

Active Member
It won´t be same still cause the C150 is horizontally laying which means it won`t sound same as others staying upright.
If we're splitting hairs I said tonally match which is not the same to me as sounding the same. I was going to get the 300s and C350 but I got £1150 off the Silver 200 6AV12 setup and would have lost that if I'd had the upgrade. I made a decision that I'd rather save the cash.

I've stated Monitor Audio's advice and made my view clear in posts above, which includes people making different choices.

I agree with what you say - it depends on how far one wants to go in pursuit of a hobby.
 

RogerDingo

Member
morning guys

so i was having a chat to my gf about the living room situation and the tv/couch positioning.
since the room is fairly narrow but long i said that it might be a better option to put the tv onto the back wall with the couch in the middle.
There was slight hesitation about the idea but i feel i got my point across fairly well.
one of the issues is that our current couch (3 seater) will not into the bay area.. and we arent gonna down grade to a 2 seater (been there its awful)
so need to do something different.
for refence our couch is 204cm long

so putting the couch into the middle would look something like this

1627546744689.png


with a 55 inch tv im not sure how far away the couch should be from the but lets start with that positioning.

another thing that popped into my mind is would i need a bigger tv to fit onto that wall so its all in proportion .. maybe a 60" be a better fit. Something to figure out at a later point.

also id need to see if the developers can put the tv fittings/power plugs etc onto the back wall instead... im gonna say no but have to ask. As long as theres some power plugs i can work out the rest.

was wondering your thoughts on this?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
morning guys

so i was having a chat to my gf about the living room situation and the tv/couch positioning.
since the room is fairly narrow but long i said that it might be a better option to put the tv onto the back wall with the couch in the middle.
There was slight hesitation about the idea but i feel i got my point across fairly well.
one of the issues is that our current couch (3 seater) will not into the bay area.. and we arent gonna down grade to a 2 seater (been there its awful)
so need to do something different.
for refence our couch is 204cm long

so putting the couch into the middle would look something like this

View attachment 1547927

with a 55 inch tv im not sure how far away the couch should be from the but lets start with that positioning.

another thing that popped into my mind is would i need a bigger tv to fit onto that wall so its all in proportion .. maybe a 60" be a better fit. Something to figure out at a later point.

also id need to see if the developers can put the tv fittings/power plugs etc onto the back wall instead... im gonna say no but have to ask. As long as theres some power plugs i can work out the rest.

was wondering your thoughts on this?

55" tv for living room? Aprils fool day has passed already mate! ;) I wouldn`t consider anything smaller than 65" seriously and even that for me wouldn´t cut it anymore due to 70-77" tvs price drop. Sure OLED will cost more, but does it have to be that then.. For 65" 4k tv 8 feet is quite ideal watching distance - 10feet is likely what most people opt for, minium being 5,4feet if reading the recommendations. You don`t want to sit too close either as that is not ideal vs. speaker placement. And finally you don`t want to sit dead middle in the room (lenght wise). One studied recommendation was 38% from rear or front wall, but i don`t think you need to start splitting hairs for lounge setup. What is the width of that tv wall in picture?
 

Baron Mole

Active Member
Knowing what the 'ideal' viewing distance and speaker placement is useful as a starting point, but unless you've designed the room to enable this any domestic setup will have to be a compromise to include the position of furniture and how the room is used when not watching TV.

Here are the links to dolby's recommendations

5.1
7.1

I seem to remember that the the side speakers are recommended to be placed about 2 feet above listening ear level, which is what I use in my 7.1 system. I also sit further back than would be recommended for my 50" TV at 3.5m.

Presumably there will be other furniture in particular more seating? And like your GF I wouldn't be keen on that sofa position cutting the room in half.

Personally I'd pull the sofa back as far as the door and have it up to the RH wall to give space to get round it. Not ideal but it's what I've had to do.

That then leaves the bay and most of the room available for other furniture and the occasional guest :D

As to size of TV thats down to you, your budget, and the quality of the source HD UHD./4K My TV was bought in 2015. Much bigger screens are now available at affordable prices so I'd recommend going bigger being aware that you may also need to go 4K.
 

RogerDingo

Member
Here are the links to dolby's recommendations

5.1
7.1
thanks ill take a look.
Presumably there will be other furniture in particular more seating? And like your GF I wouldn't be keen on that sofa position cutting the room in half.
yeah id say we'll end up getting something.. maybe get an extension to the couch to make it into an L shape.

agree that cutting the room in half with the couch may not be ideal... just looking at all options for now.
Personally I'd pull the sofa back as far as the door and have it up to the RH wall to give space to get round it. Not ideal but it's what I've had to do.

yeah i get ya.. basically making a little walkway around the couch to get into the living room.
issue i see with that is that the tv would be really far away...

my eyes are fuked as well now.. both of ours really... sitting that far back everything would be blurry as hell.. probably just need to get a bigger tv :D
 

Baron Mole

Active Member
sitting that far back everything would be blurry as hell.. probably just need to get a bigger tv
:thumbsup:

I've also heard of a new-fangled invention - I think they're called 'spectacles'........:rotfl:
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I also sit further back than would be recommended for my 50" TV
Likewise. Like Roger I have a 55" Samsung and sit around 3.5m away. It's fine. At some point I'll probably go to a 65" and whack the 55" in the bedroom....

Personally I'd pull the sofa back as far as the door and have it up to the RH wall to give space to get round it. Not ideal but it's what I've had to do.

That then leaves the bay and most of the room available for other furniture and the occasional guest :D
Yep totally agree. Will open up the room and be far more practical imo.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
lolz...
well 55 inch is/was perfect for our previous accommodation also the tv cabinet we currently havent doesnt support anything bigger than 55.
Dont get me wrong im all for getting a bigger tv :)




according to the design paperwork its 2935

View attachment 1547969

It must be very narrow then as the feets not as wide as the tv itself so wouldn`t matter if the tv would come out of sides, only might look odd. But if you require new av-cab then make it happen. 55" is too small, that was the norm like 5years ago. Go sit down on some store which has 70-77", personally i wouldn`t buy anything smaller these days for the ~3meter distance, but i understand that people want OLED and they are expensive. One option would be 55" tv for the tv programs and then some 100" screen dropping down from ceiling in front of the tv at late night when family wants to watch latest blockbuster flick. You can get 4k projector for 1k£ and screen costs few hundred. Cheapest 65" OLED costs 2k£ likely. There is no comparison when you got big picture. You can buy the best audio gear in the world, but if you are looking tiny tv it`s never going to feel like in cinema. Now get +100" screen and boom! Something to consider for future perhaps. :)
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
It must be very narrow then as the feets not as wide as the tv itself so wouldn`t matter if the tv would come out of sides, only might look odd. But if you require new av-cab then make it happen. 55" is too small, that was the norm like 5years ago. Go sit down on some store which has 70-77", personally i wouldn`t buy anything smaller these days for the ~3meter distance, but i understand that people want OLED and they are expensive. One option would be 55" tv for the tv programs and then some 100" screen dropping down from ceiling in front of the tv at late night when family wants to watch latest blockbuster flick. You can get 4k projector for 1k£ and screen costs few hundred. Cheapest 65" OLED costs 2k£ likely. There is no comparison when you got big picture. You can buy the best audio gear in the world, but if you are looking tiny tv it`s never going to feel like in cinema. Now get +100" screen and boom! Something to consider for future perhaps. :)
Hey @Gasp3621 Not disagreeing with anything you've said re TV sizes (I'm actually looking to go down the route of a drop down PJ screen in front my 55") myself...

I do however have a genuine question for you.

if 55" is now considered small, but was the norm 5yrs ago - why do manufacturers still make 4k tv's of this size and smaller that clearly still sell in enough numbers to warrant their production? (admittedly along with quite a few 70"+)....

Of course, I would imagine most people would want a bigger TV in their room. But it's not always possible. Neither does everyone want or desire a 100" projection screen in their often non dedicated room.

Personally as I say I do! and would certainly agree that people get the biggest TV they can afford/accomodate. As stated previously I'm also looking to go to 65" (regardless of my Projector dream's becoming reality). But it's certainly not a one size fits all decision 😊
 

Baron Mole

Active Member
Of course, I would imagine most people would want a bigger TV in their room. But it's not always possible. Neither does everyone want or desire a 100" projection screen in their often non dedicated room.
I think it's easy to forget that we are a niche market and relatively small in terms of the whole market to whom "it's just a tele".

In my case there's only one place in my room that the TV can live. I've prioritised sound above TV size because music is more important to me than TV. I'd love a bigger TV and when my 50" Panny plasma dies, I'll go up a size or two but much as I'd love 77" (ooh, err, missus) there's no way I'd be happy with that size in the room visually.

When that time comes I may well consider a dedicated room but not for now.
 

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