Looking to replace 12 year old Panasonic

Boostrail

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Hello
It is some years since I have posted on this forum and then latterly was more concerned with video transfer and editing.

However it was in early 2008 with some trepidation that I bought my first large flat screen (by those days standards) TV. It was one of the most expensive 37" TV's at the time (£850) It was however one of the first full HD (1080x1920) TV's available. Since viewing angles were significantly important (and still are) capabilities and at that time quite differentiated I decided to go for an IPS display. At the time Panasonic made their own variant of this type of display IPS-alpha.

Apart from finding that the then 2008 Freeview performance was mediocre this TV has failed to delight. I found that connected to any external input the performance is amazing. In particular I remember the 2008 Beijing Olympics which was delivered via the BBCHD-Virgin media direct link at over 18mbps albeit at at MP2. What 4k I have seen barely exceeds this experience.

The sound on this TV is also excellent as it has a built in mini sound bar but have theatre surround system also. Use a Primestick so no Smart TV problems

Over the years so many people visiting have asked "How do you get such a fabulous TV picture?" etc.

Ok Replacement . No more than 50" sits across LH corner of 20ft lounge. 3 years ago would have bought curved TV. But what now ?

OLED looks attractive but seems expensive? Also from what I read panels are all made by LG irrespective of TV badge. Somewhat dubious about brightness although Samsung Amoled displays on phone and tablets are excellent in this respect.

Where do I go now?
 
Very similar position as you and looked at TV's to replace my 9yr old 37" LG (that also cost £850) on and off for the last two years.

From what I deem to be correct, unless you watch a lot of HD sources and usually watch SD channels (free view), you are no better off and better staying with your current TV.
 
Wait for 48" OLEDs to come down in price for the largest overall gains in picture quality. A 48" model should be okay with HD content at nominal viewing distances but UHD models have 4x as many pixels as HD so upscaling is definitely going to be more prevalent.

To use an example, watching HD on a 4k display was a bit like SD on a HD one, its not going to look as sharp as SD would have on an old CRT, but its acceptable. Where 4k TVs really shine is with higher quality content.

There's a size versus distance relationship with a TV, so depending on what you watch and your viewing distance it may be a better idea to go smaller or bigger.
 
Wait for 48" OLEDs to come down in price for the largest overall gains in picture quality. A 48" model should be okay with HD content at nominal viewing distances but UHD models have 4x as many pixels as HD so upscaling is definitely going to be more prevalent.

To use an example, watching HD on a 4k display was a bit like SD on a HD one, its not going to look as sharp as SD would have on an old CRT, but its acceptable. Where 4k TVs really shine is with higher quality content.

There's a size versus distance relationship with a TV, so depending on what you watch and your viewing distance it may be a better idea to go smaller or bigger.

Thank you but very aware of distance, upscaling, HD v. UHD pixels etc.. As said Beijing Olympics at 18mbps on BBC HD in 2008 via Virgin media is only beaten by what 4K I have seen. Have also been aware that SD and HD bit rates vary from source to source and some upscalers are markedly better than others.

Because of layout of lounge viewing distance varies from 2m to 4.5m

Will have another look but have not seen any OLED tv's below 55" at any price?
 
Will have another look but have not seen any OLED tv's below 55" at any price?
They are brand new. https://www.lg.com/uk/tvs/lg-oled48cx6lb

On the expensive side having just been released, so it would be more sensible to wait to buy one after its price has dropped to a more reasonable amount. Usually first time for that each year is Black Friday but the pandemic may change pricing trends a little.
 
Thanks. Was not aware of the LG 48" OLED. However I am a little dubious about OLED as I notice elsewhere you do not recommend them for bright environments. Lounge has South facing windows on 70% of one side facing corner in which TV is located. Also in winter other half insists on having lights full on at all times. Given this and the current price of the 48" OLED would I be better off with say Samsung QLED or other LCD/LED?
 
It depends how bright, but certainly if you are watching always during the day or with overhead lights on it mitigates the benefits of an OLED compared to an LCD TV. They still have decent reflection handling and you'll still get other benefits against an LCD TV like per pixel dimming and no motion blur, but you won't notice the blacks or contrast being any better than an LCD TV.

The problem for you though is your size limitation of 50".
Samsung do not make their higher end TVs that cope with reflections better than OLEDs at sub 55" and the same 55" and over Samsung models are also the only way to get a TV that has a good HDR performance and viewing angles too. Against OLEDs (sub 50")it leaves your choice to LCD TVs using IPS type panels like LGs SM9000 which isn't really any brighter than an OLED, but suffers less from ABL..because it doesn't have good peak brightness for an LCD its not a good TV to use with HDR material.

Ideally you'd want to step up to 55" if you can to get the Samsung Q80R or Q85R. If HDR doesn't matter to you then you should go for the LG SM9000 or cheaper SM8500/SM8600. If you want both small size and good HDR you'd have to get one of the new 48" OLEDs, but I'd advise waiting on your purchase for those to come down in price first.
 
Again thanks Dodgexander


However am getting a bit confused as to panel technology.

10 years or so ago when I last looked at this Samsung and Sony were using VA panels and LG, Philips and Panasonic were using IPS panels. Some cheaper brand TV's at that time were using VA panels from a Taiwanese source. Indeed the cheaper Sony TV's were also using these Taiwanese VA panels. I chose the IPS panel a couple of years earlier in particular as at that time the Panasonic IPS Alpha panels offered far better viewing angles and brightness. Whilst I knew that the VA panels offered better blacks and contrast I have not found the lack of this significant in my viewing environment. (e.g. The black background during "Mastermind " still looks black!)

Fully understand that what is today called an LED TV is in fact a LCD with an LED backlight using later versions of the LCD technologies described above. Which TV's are fitted with what is to me today uncertain other than that LG is always their current IPS and probably Samsung is VA.

QLED is a Samsung "Improved " panel but based on VA technology.

What is different about the Samsung 55" QLED panels to their 49" QLED panels?

TIA
 
QLED is a marketing term Samsung use to describe their LCD TVs that come with Quantum Dot Colour technology. It's not related to the panel type they use which is still VA.

The difference being they have invented a superior anti glare/reflection handling filter they place on the front of the TVs panel. They equip this filter only on models Q80R and above which are only available at larger sizes.

The advent of HDR has shuffled things around a lot in the TV industry and its no longer possible for TVs that use IPS panels to display HDR without adverse effects. This is due to the design of IPS technology letting too much light through from behind the panel. The very best balance of local dimming and peak brightness from a TV using an IPS panel comes from LGs SM9000 model, but they haven't been able to make the brightness of the TV bright enough for HDR because it causes adverse screen uniformity issues...even despite the TV having good dimming.

Its for this reason that all the capable TVs with HDR are using VA panel technology which blocks more light from behind, thus making it possible to pack more brightness behind the TVs panel without it resulting in considerably poorer screen uniformity.

Limited strictly to sub 55" there are only 5 LCD models currently that really make the cut with HDR apart from the new 48" OLEDs and that would be the 2019 range Samsung 49Q70R or the Sony 49XG9005. New revisions of these TVs in the Samsung 49Q80T and Sony 49XH9196. These TVs all use VA panels, which is part of the reason they can push out high enough peak brightness to display HDR without problems, but because they don't have wide viewing angle filters, they lose picture quality if you view at an angle greater than 20-30 degrees each side.

That leaves only the new Sony 49XH9505 which like the new 48" models carries a large price premium. This TV uses a VA panel but has Sony's wide viewing angle filter to bolster viewing angles at the side.

All the others, Q70R, Q80T, XG9005, XH9196 have narrow viewing angles.

The wisest thing to do if you can't fit a 55" would be to bide your time and go for either one of the 48" OLEDs or the new 49XH9505 when it comes down in price. You'll have to play the waiting game, but its usually Black Friday each year that TV's first see the biggest discounts and the first time I tend to recommend buying new models. Until then you are stuck with the choice of wide viewing angles and poor HDR in LGs SUHD LCD TV range or poor viewing angles and good HDR with the Samsung Q70R or Sony XG9005.

EDIT for clarification and because Samsung play games with model numbers:

The new Q80T is not a replacement for the Q80R and thus does not come with a wide viewing angle/anti glare filter like last years Q80R did. Instead its more comparable to this years Samsung Q70R.
 
QLED is a marketing term Samsung use to describe their LCD TVs that come with Quantum Dot Colour technology. It's not related to the panel type they use which is still VA.

The difference being they have invented a superior anti glare/reflection handling filter they place on the front of the TVs panel. They equip this filter only on models Q80R and above which are only available at larger sizes.

The advent of HDR has shuffled things around a lot in the TV industry and its no longer possible for TVs that use IPS panels to display HDR without adverse effects. This is due to the design of IPS technology letting too much light through from behind the panel. The very best balance of local dimming and peak brightness from a TV using an IPS panel comes from LGs SM9000 model, but they haven't been able to make the brightness of the TV bright enough for HDR because it causes adverse screen uniformity issues...even despite the TV having good dimming.

Its for this reason that all the capable TVs with HDR are using VA panel technology which blocks more light from behind, thus making it possible to pack more brightness behind the TVs panel without it resulting in considerably poorer screen uniformity.

Limited strictly to sub 55" there are only 5 LCD models currently that really make the cut with HDR apart from the new 48" OLEDs and that would be the 2019 range Samsung 49Q70R or the Sony 49XG9005. New revisions of these TVs in the Samsung 49Q80T and Sony 49XH9196. These TVs all use VA panels, which is part of the reason they can push out high enough peak brightness to display HDR without problems, but because they don't have wide viewing angle filters, they lose picture quality if you view at an angle greater than 20-30 degrees each side.

That leaves only the new Sony 49XH9505 which like the new 48" models carries a large price premium. This TV uses a VA panel but has Sony's wide viewing angle filter to bolster viewing angles at the side.

All the others, Q70R, Q80T, XG9005, XH9196 have narrow viewing angles.

The wisest thing to do if you can't fit a 55" would be to bide your time and go for either one of the 48" OLEDs or the new 49XH9505 when it comes down in price. You'll have to play the waiting game, but its usually Black Friday each year that TV's first see the biggest discounts and the first time I tend to recommend buying new models. Until then you are stuck with the choice of wide viewing angles and poor HDR in LGs SUHD LCD TV range or poor viewing angles and good HDR with the Samsung Q70R or Sony XG9005.

EDIT for clarification and because Samsung play games with model numbers:

The new Q80T is not a replacement for the Q80R and thus does not come with a wide viewing angle/anti glare filter like last years Q80R did. Instead its more comparable to this years Samsung Q70R.

Thanks for this clarification, however please explain the emphasis on HDR capability. Is this only relevant to 4K viewing? I do have access to BT & Sky sports UHD (well did until lockdown) and UHD from other sources but is not important otherwise as it is rare we watch a film or other than broadcaster source. (about once a month).

However good upscaling from HD to the 4K panel is important as was SD to HD upscaling over 10 years ago. Can now watch virtually everything except local BBC/ITV local news in HD.

But still say Beijing Olympics on BBC HD devoted channel only available on Virgin Media (or with reduced bit rate on Sky) is only matched by UHD demos I have seen.

B
 
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Thanks for this clarification, however please explain the emphasis on HDR capability. Is this only relevant to 4K viewing? I do have access to BT & Sky sports UHD (well did until lockdown) and UHD from other sources bit is not important as it is rare we watch a film or other than broadcaster source. (about once a month).

However good upscaling from HD to the 4K panel is important as was SD to HD upscaling over 10 years ago. Can now watch virtually everything except local BBC/ITV local news in HD.

But still say Beijing Olympics on BBC HD devoted channel only available on Virgin Media (or with reduced bit rate on Sky) is only matched by UHD demos I have seen.

B
Try not to get the marketing buzzwords mixed up. HDR is not a resolution, it doesn't have anything to do with SD, HD or UHD.

The above thread talks about HDR in more detail. I believe Sky Q will be introducing HDR this year, no idea with BT or Virgin. There are select HDR trials on the iPlayer, usually bigger sporting events or nature documentaries. The likes of Amazon and Netflix also have content available in HDR.

So when you buy a new LCD TV nowadays, if you want it to support display HDR content without issues you have to buy models that include good local dimming and high peak brightness...or you have to go for an OLED.

If you are sure you aren't going to use HDR, for example you don't use any content that will use HDR both now or in the future would be the only time to consider buying an LCD TV that does not have good HDR hardware.
 

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