Looking for SW advice for corner of large open plan room

afzal

Active Member
Hi everyone.
After searching through the site, I've not found anything which addresses my issue, so I'd like to ask for advice on 1 or 2 subs for an HT in the corner of a large open room.

First, top line constraints and info. My budget for sub(s) it about 900 euro. My size limit is about the size of an SVS PB-1000 pro. The corner in which the HT is situated is 4x5m (2.5m high), so about 50m3, but the room is roughly 14x5m. About 80% of my listening is HT, the other 20% is music. It's an apartment, so it's rare I'd go to reference volumes. From an aesthetic perspective, something available in piano white would be nice, but I might be able to push my wife to accept black if the sub makes a big enough difference.

Now, a little more detail. I've just downsized from a house with a batcave to an open plan apartment. I sold all the batcave gear with the house, but I'm not starting with zero as I'm pushing my other gear into use. I've got an RGB laser UST projector, with a Vividstorm S Pro floor rising CLR screen. I'm reusing my Dali Oberon 7s at the front, with a Dali Oberon Vokal. The space has an acoustic ceiling with 6 Yamaha NS-IC600 speakers embedded (I can only use 4 with the Denon). I've not picked rear satellites yet. For the moment, I've got a Dali E-12F that was in my music room, but I don't think it's great for an HT (although could it be ok as a 2nd sub?).

Here's a view of the area:
HT Area.png


There are windows right and back (plus part of a sliding door onto the balcony). I can pretty much only place the sub(s) in the SWa and SWb places.

So, what do you think are my options? Replace the Dali with a single sub (ported?). Add a single to the Dali? Replace the Dali with 2 subs? Finally, what subs would you recommend? SVS PB-1000 pro? SB-1000 (pro)? Something else (REL, Velodyne, Elac, etc.?)

Thanks in advance everyone.

P.S. Here's a floorplan showing the entire space:
02 Detailed Plan - 021_07_B2.202-Main_Room.png
 

jamieu

Well-known Member
As it's not a single rectangle it may not work, but given you have the measurements to hand, it might be worth punching them into REW's Room Simulator (no measurement mic needed) and seeing where your room modes/nulls lie and if one or two subs would present you with a smother/better response.
 
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Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Regarding which subwoofer or subwoofers, I would have a look at this:


Regarding position, if it is one subwoofer, my opinion in a room that size is that corner loading would be very useful.
 
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afzal

Active Member
Regarding which subwoofer or subwoofers, I would have a look at this:


Regarding position, if it is one subwoofer, my opinion in a room that size is that corner loading would be very useful.
Thanks for the link to that table. If I corner load, is the 50m3 column in the chart ok, or should I look at something between the 50m3 HT space, and the 175m3 overall room space?
 
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Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Good question. I would pose it on that thread, and put it to Mr Wolf. It's a good question to have answered on there for many other members.
 
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Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Also note the chart is in cubic feet.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hi everyone.
After searching through the site, I've not found anything which addresses my issue, so I'd like to ask for advice on 1 or 2 subs for an HT in the corner of a large open room.

First, top line constraints and info. My budget for sub(s) it about 900 euro. My size limit is about the size of an SVS PB-1000 pro. The corner in which the HT is situated is 4x5m (2.5m high), so about 50m3, but the room is roughly 14x5m. About 80% of my listening is HT, the other 20% is music. It's an apartment, so it's rare I'd go to reference volumes. From an aesthetic perspective, something available in piano white would be nice, but I might be able to push my wife to accept black if the sub makes a big enough difference.

Now, a little more detail. I've just downsized from a house with a batcave to an open plan apartment. I sold all the batcave gear with the house, but I'm not starting with zero as I'm pushing my other gear into use. I've got an RGB laser UST projector, with a Vividstorm S Pro floor rising CLR screen. I'm reusing my Dali Oberon 7s at the front, with a Dali Oberon Vokal. The space has an acoustic ceiling with 6 Yamaha NS-IC600 speakers embedded (I can only use 4 with the Denon). I've not picked rear satellites yet. For the moment, I've got a Dali E-12F that was in my music room, but I don't think it's great for an HT (although could it be ok as a 2nd sub?).

Here's a view of the area:
View attachment 1587974

There are windows right and back (plus part of a sliding door onto the balcony). I can pretty much only place the sub(s) in the SWa and SWb places.

So, what do you think are my options? Replace the Dali with a single sub (ported?). Add a single to the Dali? Replace the Dali with 2 subs? Finally, what subs would you recommend? SVS PB-1000 pro? SB-1000 (pro)? Something else (REL, Velodyne, Elac, etc.?)

Thanks in advance everyone.

P.S. Here's a floorplan showing the entire space:
View attachment 1587976


It`s a large room, but you can compensate that with the nearfield placement. Also as you live in apartment that means the listening levels are way lower than in detached house.

Arendal 1961 1V would have been great option in white/gloss white, but the placement near the couch and side firing drivers doesn´t work. One sub at rear of room you may have some localization issues and response can be quite different for left and right side listeners on couch.

Sell the Dali sub, it has high port tuning and is quite far off from PB1000 Pro otherwise that it`s not ideal to be partnered with it. However i would do some testing with it now as you have it there, try those spots you drawed and run receiver setup again when moving it to new spot.

PB1000 Pro is strong option, shame you missed the lower prices 2weeks ago. SVS prices now much higher.

XTZ 12.17 Edge would be another option as matte white, but sadly comes with black grill.

XTZ 1x12 Cinema Edge is good looking high performing sub and slightly different by cabinet dimensions. Satin black finish.

BK Monolith white / gloss white 505£/595£, but no idea how much shipping will cost where you live, you need to contact them via email. Front firing and down firing options (compare the cabinet dimensions:




Below is example of two SVS PB3000 each side of couch by @John24ssj .

img_20210817_115734-jpg.1556665



BK Monolith Plus FF (front firing) by the couch and front wall:

view


view
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
BK Monolith DF (taller and low depth cab). Not small, but we have had at least one member that i remember who went from Dali E-12F to Monolith. Very noticeable upgrade! However it´s heavy and the shipping costs are question mark to EU country.


Mono_white1.jpeg


mono_white2.jpeg
 
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afzal

Active Member
As it's not a single rectangle it may not work, but given you have the measurements to hand, it might be worth punching them into REW's Room Simulator (no measurement mic needed) and seeing where your room modes/nulls lie and if one or two subs would present you with a smother/better response.
Thanks. I'll check out the simulator.
 
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afzal

Active Member
It`s a large room, but you can compensate that with the nearfield placement. Also as you live in apartment that means the listening levels are way lower than in detached house.

Arendal 1961 1V would have been great option in white/gloss white, but the placement near the couch and side firing drivers doesn´t work. One sub at rear of room you may have some localization issues and response can be quite different for left and right side listeners on couch.

Sell the Dali sub, it has high port tuning and is quite far off from PB1000 Pro otherwise that it`s not ideal to be partnered with it. However i would do some testing with it now as you have it there, try those spots you drawed and run receiver setup again when moving it to new spot.

PB1000 Pro is strong option, shame you missed the lower prices 2weeks ago. SVS prices now much higher.

XTZ 12.17 Edge would be another option as matte white, but sadly comes with black grill.

XTZ 1x12 Cinema Edge is good looking high performing sub and slightly different by cabinet dimensions. Satin black finish.

BK Monolith white / gloss white 505£/595£, but no idea how much shipping will cost where you live, you need to contact them via email. Front firing and down firing options (compare the cabinet dimensions:




Below is example of two SVS PB3000 each side of couch by @John24ssj .

img_20210817_115734-jpg.1556665



BK Monolith Plus FF (front firing) by the couch and front wall:

view


view

Thank you very much for the very helpful reply. I've contacted XTZ to learn about shipping to Switzerland, and I'll do the same with the Monolith.
 
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afzal

Active Member
Back again. Monolith is out due to delivery costs.
However, I can get the non pro version of the SVS PB-2000 for the same price as the XTC 12.17 Edge. Any opinions on which I should pick?
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Back again. Monolith is out due to delivery costs.
However, I can get the non pro version of the SVS PB-2000 for the same price as the XTC 12.17 Edge. Any opinions on which I should pick?

Tough call, XTZ for the looks and size plus the fact that you live in apartment so you aren`t pushing them hard. PB2000 has larger cab and performance edge below 25hz. Both have 5year warranty. For living room the white XTZ would be nicer for sure. Really shame the Arendal doesn`t work out.

97c5ff18-2a6e-4203-9ac0-78fb1549918d-jpeg.1080542


181221105520754124.jpg
 
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Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
That's very strange, this is where my 10" THX came from:

1634805165032.png


To the UK with free postage.

You could get in your car and drive across the tunnel for much less money!
 
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Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Direct from Monoprice website, they used UPS.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Why Monoprice US? Monoprice EU should have lower shipping?



Although if you fancy white sub then XTZ would fit the bill better.
 
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Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Yeah, I used Monoprice EU site (then it redirects me to a UK site).
 
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afzal

Active Member
For some reason the eu site doesn't ship to Switzerland. If I get it delivered to somewhere in the EU, then I'd end up paying VAT twice.
 
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afzal

Active Member
OK, now it's interesting. Monoprice have said to me that they include shipping and all Swiss taxes in their price from Germany. So, that puts the Monolith 10in THX at 600 euros, at the Monolith 12" THX at 1000 euro. If I translate those to Swiss prices, that's about 650fr and 1,070fr.

In comparison, I can buy the SVS PB-1000 pro for 930fr in Switzerland. The non pro PB-2000 is 850fr.

I've done some calculations for the XTZ SUB 12.17 Edge, and it comes out at about 780fr.

For 12", the SVS and XTZ are cheaper than the Monolith, and the 10" Monolith has only one port.

Opinions?
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
OK, now it's interesting. Monoprice have said to me that they include shipping and all Swiss taxes in their price from Germany. So, that puts the Monolith 10in THX at 600 euros, at the Monolith 12" THX at 1000 euro. If I translate those to Swiss prices, that's about 650fr and 1,070fr.

In comparison, I can buy the SVS PB-1000 pro for 930fr in Switzerland. The non pro PB-2000 is 850fr.

I've done some calculations for the XTZ SUB 12.17 Edge, and it comes out at about 780fr.

For 12", the SVS and XTZ are cheaper than the Monolith, and the 10" Monolith has only one port.

Opinions?

Your plan was to buy 2 subwoofers, however you don´t have large enough budget for all those (x2) so would you start with one and add second later or..?

Monoprice 12" price is quite good, it`s equivalent to PB2000 Pro. But it`s quite large so check the clip below.

You would also run the XTZ in one port mode so quite similar to Mono 10". The benefit with this is the size and white finish.

SVS PB1000 Pro is step up from both XTZ and Mono 10", but the Monoprice 12" is so close price wise and again step up so better deal for sure.

Mono 10" price is very good. Normally if your house would be detached you would buy 2x Mono 15 for that type of large room, but it`s living room in apartment with neighbours to worry and you have the subs under meter from you. The finish is not what you/wife prefered. Below is few videos to show the size in living room check em out and tell us which we you/wife are leaning?


 
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Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
I can't see if you're on the ground floor or not sorry but it's worth also bearing in mind that the 12" THX Mono weighs in at 45kg. So, I believe it will be about 53kg when packed.

Of the subwoofers that you have short-listed, this would need someone else to help you lift it (unless your last name is Hulk).
 
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afzal

Active Member
First of all, Gasp and Dobby, thank you both so much for your help. It is very much appreciated.

For information, there are 4 apts in my building, one on each floor. I'm on the 2nd last, so neighbours above and below (mind you, neither is there very often - tax exiles). There is a lift, so getting the SW to the floor is not an issue.

So, on 1 vs 2 SWs, my original thoughts were 1, but now it's 2. In my budget, I'd not factored in the extra cash I can get by selling the Dali, so that gives me some legroom. That legroom puts 2 Monoliths or XTZs in range, but 2 PB1000s are going a bit far. 2x 12" Monoliths is really too much, and those things are monsters!

I used the Dali to do some sub crawl. I found SWb (above) really quite good, although pretty much anywhere behind the couch along that wall is good. SWa is not quite as good, but still quite reasonable. As you can see from the diagram, I don't have space at the front wall to put subs, so I didn't check there.

On finish, my wife is pretty hooked on a white finish at SWa (where it's visible) but doesn't care about SWb where the SW is hidden by the couch. I guess it's not a good idea to stick a Monolith there, and an XTZ at SWa. She's said that ultimately, I should decide.

So, two 10" Monoliths and hope my wife doesn't go back on her decision when she sees them? Or, two XTZs?

Finally, do any of these makes do Black Friday deals?

Thanks guys!
 
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Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Finally, do any of these makes do Black Friday deals?

I have two Monolith 10" THX. Setting them up this weekend.

I used a website called Topcashback, but don't know if that is only for UK, @Mr Wolf showed me it. It gets cashback at Monoprice. Monoprice do sometimes reduce the price temporarily. So I got them for £399 each and with Topcashback discount they were £754 for the pair with delivery.

Whether or not they will do the discount again... erm, your risk to take. My feeling, with many things going up in price like the SVS range, would be to bite the bullet now. But don't quote me on that!
 
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