Looking for a Denon AVR S760H owner (or any 2021 model owner) to help me run a 5 minute test regarding dialogue sound bleed

[Woogz]

I bought a Denon S760H about a month ago and ever since I've had dialogue bleed from the surround speakers when upmixing stereo content to 5.1.

I opened a ticket with Denon for my dialogue sound bleed and they're telling me that my issue was fixed in a firmware update in October. My understanding is that it was fixed for 2020 models but maybe not for 2021 models.

I'm hoping I can get someone else to try to replicate my issue and let me know if they're able to or if I just need to reset / replace my unit.

Here's the replication steps. Needs to be someone with a 5.1 setup. Even better if you have an Nvidia Shield and YouTube TV.

1. Make sure your Denon's firmware is up to date.
2. Set your Denon sound mode to Dolby Audio - DSur
3. open an app like Netflix or Youtube TV and play a program that doesn't have 5.1 surround where there's people talking. Sports talk or some news program would be great. Something like First Take.
4. Press Info and confirm you see the info below these steps. If you don't see this you'll need to swap to a different app/program that doesn't natively have 5.1 sound.
5. Turn the volume up a good bit.
6. Unplug your center channel speaker (this is just so that you can hear the issue more easily.) Unplug it from the speaker side, not the receiver side (although I don't know if that makes a difference)
7. Listen to one of your surround speakers.
8. Tell me whether or not you can hear distorted dialogue coming from the surround speaker.

Info:

SIGNAL PCM

SOUND Dolby Audio - DSur

Input Signal: FL FR

Active Speakers: SW FL C FR SL SR

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nutty667]

This is a known issue.

Sound leaking into surrounds (voice)

Hope someone can help as am sure something is ‘wrong’ with my Denon 4700 but maybe it’s something else happening I have noticed for a while that when watching normal programming on Sky the vocals are coming through the surround and also front L and R but more of a problem in the surrounds...

www.avforums.com

 

[Woogz]

This is a known issue.

Sound leaking into surrounds (voice)

Hope someone can help as am sure something is ‘wrong’ with my Denon 4700 but maybe it’s something else happening I have noticed for a while that when watching normal programming on Sky the vocals are coming through the surround and also front L and R but more of a problem in the surrounds...

www.avforums.com

Denon support claims they fixed it with a firmware update in October. They refuse to acknowledge it's still an issue.


Someone on Reddit confirmed it fixed the issue for their 2020 model Denon so I'm trying to find another 2021 model owner to confirm they have the issue as well so I can push back on support.

 

[ShanePJ]

If you've done the update, then send the amplifier back to them and if they hear the issue, they cannot ignore it. You may find you actually have a faulty AV Receiver and the issue has been fixed

As with everything first, double check all your connections as I've heard strange things from AV Receivers when a bit of wire is touching the chassis even though you cannot see it!

 

[Woogz]

If you've done the update, then send the amplifier back to them and if they hear the issue, they cannot ignore it. You may find you actually have a faulty AV Receiver and the issue has been fixed

As with everything first, double check all your connections as I've heard strange things from AV Receivers when a bit of wire is touching the chassis even though you cannot see it!

I was hoping I could get 1 2021 model owner to run the test just as a sanity check but so far have had no luck.

 

[Deleted member 901590]

@Woogz sorry I haven't enough time to find all the links on here for this, so it's just from my memory...

When the firmware fix came in, some D&M owners on AVF said "yes it's fixed", some said "oh it's still there but it's much better" and some said "it's still there and I hate it".

So, there was quite a lot of ongoing discussion about the issue. The most difficult part in the discussions is:

1. Someone could have a faulty unit that's worse for the bleed than everyone else but no one would know, as we're not talking measurements here, we're talking about people's perception.
2. It depends on your room, where you're sat relative to speakers, what speakers you have etc etc and many other factors on how much you notice it.

Anyway, in summary I agree with Shane, there could be something wrong with the unit. But there may not be. Best thing would be if someone else on AVF lived near to you and you could go round theirs, play an identical source and see what there's sounds like. Then, if what you are experiencing is the "best fix that D&M can do" at least you'll know!

 

[Deleted member 901590]

Just seen that you're from America, I don't know which country you mean but if you are in the USA then you're probably more likely to find someone near to you on AVSForum rather than here.

 

[Woogz]

@Woogz sorry I haven't enough time to find all the links on here for this, so it's just from my memory...

When the firmware fix came in, some D&M owners on AVF said "yes it's fixed", some said "oh it's still there but it's much better" and some said "it's still there and I hate it".

So, there was quite a lot of ongoing discussion about the issue. The most difficult part in the discussions is:

1. Someone could have a faulty unit that's worse for the bleed than everyone else but no one would know, as we're not talking measurements here, we're talking about people's perception.
2. It depends on your room, where you're sat relative to speakers, what speakers you have etc etc and many other factors on how much you notice it.

Anyway, in summary I agree with Shane, there could be something wrong with the unit. But there may not be. Best thing would be if someone else on AVF lived near to you and you could go round theirs, play an identical source and see what there's sounds like. Then, if what you are experiencing is the "best fix that D&M can do" at least you'll know!

That's really good context to have, I appreciate it. I didn't realize that was the outcome. I have noticed that it's gotten better so maybe it is what it is. Oddly though I now notice it coming out of the F/R speakers as well where as before I think it was only out of SR/SL but that's only when I've unplugged my center, jacked up the volume and really listened for it. The Surrounds are still more noticeable since I sit much closer to them.

I will leave it as is for a few days and see if I continue to notice it at normal listening levels. My left surround speaker is a bit close to me when I sit on the left side of the couch which is my primary seat so that's what caused me to notice it in the first place.

If it still drives me nuts I'll try to swap out the unit.

Can you confirm if this is a problem that's unique to Denon/Marantz? Like if I got an Onkyo or a Yamaha do they have this problem? Because I'm not married to Denon. I had an Onkyo for my last receiver and was really pleased with it so maybe the best solution is just to find another receiver altogether.

 

[Deleted member 901590]

Can you confirm if this is a problem that's unique to Denon/Marantz? Like if I got an Onkyo or a Yamaha do they have this problem? Because I'm not married to Denon. I had an Onkyo for my last receiver and was really pleased with it so maybe the best solution is just to find another receiver altogether.

@dante01 may be able to help you with this. My only comment would be that there will be no AVR with a two channel source that has absolutely no voice ever coming from a surround speaker. Therefore, if I were you I would not change AVR without being able to confirm with your own ears first what the alternative does.

Otherwise, there are other options with your Denon. It has the SPEAKER PRESET function, where you can set completely different settings and switch between PRESET 1 AND PRESET 2.

You could have one preset for using with 2 channel sources for example that has:

A Lower surround level than the other or

One that is only the front 3 speakers.

 

[dante01]

Denon/Matantz are the only munufacturers to actually acknowledge the Dolby bug that results in dialogue being portrayed via the surrounds. The issue is with the Dolby software as opposed to it being an issue with the AV receiver or the implimentation opf the manufacturers software. The issue seems to only afflict models that have Dolby Virtual Height processing. Some Yamaha owners have reported that they too are experiencing similar issues with newer models al;so equipped with Dolby Height Virrtualisation processing, but Yamaha haven't really acknowledge this or said whether or not it is the same Dolby bug?

 

[Deleted member 901590]

Denon/Matantz are the only munufacturers to actually acknowledge the Dolby bug that results in dialogue being portrayed via the surrounds. The issue is with the Dolby software as opposed to it being an issue with the AV receiver or the implimentation opf the manufacturers software. The issue seems to only afflict models that have Dolby Virtual Height processing. Some Yamaha owners have reported that they too are experiencing similar issues with newer models al;so equipped with Dolby Height Virrtualisation processing, but Yamaha haven't really acknowledge this or said whether or not it is the same Dolby bug?

So would you agree that if the OP is either (a) more sensitive to this bleed and/or (b) sits quite close to his SL speaker, not to change AVR (for the bleed reason) without preferably trying the new one out with a 2 channel source first?

 

[dante01]

The bug does appear to be associated with AV receivers that include Dolby Virtual Height processing and most if not all new models now come with this.As such, you aren't realistically any better with one make compared to another and it is a matter for Dolby to rectify. Given that it isn't a hardware fault and a Dolby software problem then I'd say stick with what you've got for now and hope that a firmware revision rectifies it at some point.

I'd not guarantee that buying another make and or model will result in you not still having the same issue.

You either want to audition a new model or do extensive research regarding whether it has the same or similar issues.

The thing to look out for that appears to be causing this is the implimentation of Virtual Height processing by Dolby. Note that the issue may not in fact be caused by the virtualisation, but does seem to be an issue with the Dolby software that includes that aspect of it.

 

[Woogz]

I really appreciate all of the detail. I didn't have any of this previously. Given that I'll stick with what I've got and hope that Dolby gets it figured out at some point.

 

[Sad15]

I noticed this after setting up my new Denon AVR X1700. Turning off Dynamic EQ has stopped it for me, not an ideal solution.

 

[ShanePJ]

Might be worth keeping an eye out for Denon's latest release. Yours want meant to fix the issue you have talked about on the 18/12/2021 with U25, but is states U25.x and U26.x also fixes other bugs. So, maybe they have added extra bits in here for your unit

Here is a list of all the updates --->Denon Update Info<---