Question Looking for a 49" 4K HDR tv with certain specs

gyro11

Standard Member
Hey
Ive been searching for a bit now to try to find a decent tv to replace my current one (Samsung 1080p - model number escapes me).

Its possible im looking for a unicorn considering my price range, but if it exists im hoping people here will know :)

I use the tv for HD tv, Gaming and Movies, so a mixed bag.

Specs id like are:
- 4K
- HDR10
- 10 bit panel
- wide gamut
- not curved (purely as we have a curved one at work, and can't see past the reflections on-screen)
- Smart features handy but not essential (as I have it connected up to an Xbox One S which will provide most smart features)
- ideal size is 49", but will be happy with anything 46-50"
- Price range is up to £1k

I was looking at the reviews for the Samsung KS7000 - and i think i would be quite happy with that one, but doesn't seem to be in stock anywhere anymore. Only the KS75000 which is the curved version and is a no for me.

Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated
Thanks!
 
Last edited:

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
- 10 bit panel

Any particular reason why? It's a very minor improvement generally only found on the higher end TVs because of a high cost relative to the benefits. If you want great HDR performance then you need to be looking for something with good backlight dimming.

- not curved (purely as we have a curved one at work, and can't see past the reflections on-screen)

A curved TV will spread the reflections across the screen but it won't make them more difficult to see through. Getting rid of reflections is all about a suitable brightness for the ambient light level and a good anti-reflection coating.

I was looking at the reviews for the Samsung KS7000 - and i think i would be quite happy with that one, but doesn't seem to be in stock anywhere anymore. Only the KS75000 which is the curved version and is a no for me.

They're 8-bit panels.

If you're willing to drop the unusual 10-bit requirement and aren't bothered about HDR performance outside of a wide colour gamut there are lots of options.

If you want something with good HDR performance then Sony's XE90 is likely your best bet. It's £1300 now but I'd expect it to be £1000-1100 by the end of the year.
 

gyro11

Standard Member
I'm definitely willing to drop the 10 bit panel requirement. Main reason for upping it to 10 was because I recently bought (and returned) the lg 49uj630v in the prime day sale and found the blacks were both crushed and grainy. A bit of research led me down the 10 bit panel route as a way of improvement.

Happy to take suggestions for 8 bit if you have some.

re: curved screen - I'd still go for a flat panel as it also gives the option to wall mount flat against the wall. If a curved screen was miles ahead in terms of spec and value of I would of course consider it
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
Also, i assumed this was 10 bit (for both the KS7000 and KS75000), based on the review:
Samsung KS7500 (UE55KS7500) UHD 4K TV Review

I'm not sure on the curved one actually, although Samsung does seem to use different panels in different sizes for that model (I believe the 43" is a 60hz panel for example) so it may vary.

It's difficult to tell with Samsung as they can make the panels in house, many other brands use third party panels generally available so you can get honest details on it. With samsung they can claim and 8-bit & dithering TV is 10-bit and because the difference is so small it's hard to verify that without testing.

I'm definitely willing to drop the 10 bit panel requirement. Main reason for upping it to 10 was because I recently bought (and returned) the lg 49uj630v in the prime day sale and found the blacks were both crushed and grainy. A bit of research led me down the 10 bit panel route as a way of improvement.

It's always best to express your requirements directly. Insufficient bit depth can cause those symptoms but so can other things like poor calibration, picture processing noise and so on.

I'd have thought it's unlikely that dithering caused you grainyness on a 49" 4K panel, unless you're sitting really close (sub-1m).

Happy to take suggestions for 8 bit if you have some.

It really depends on how important HDR is to you. If it's not a big deal then something like a Panasonic DX750/DX802 or the Sony SD85 would be possible choices.
 

gyro11

Standard Member
Thanks (and thank you for all your feedback so far) - HDR is important to me, mainly for gaming at this point (due to lack of other content available for it), but also want a TV that will last a little bit longer in terms of technology required.

I think I saw that the KS7000 is a 10-bit panel on some other site, but can't understand why it's not in-stock anywhere whatsoever :/, especially considering the KS7500, which is the same TV just curved, has lots of availability
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
The problem with panel bit depth is there is no way to measure it. You can feed a TV a 10bit signal and then see how it displays it, if it displays a 10 bit colour pattern without any gradients but since 8 bit panels can do this with FRC to a standard that true 10 bit panels can, its impossible to tell.

So short of receiving info directly from manufactures (they won't give out such info) we don't know.

HDR itself (and the UHD Premium certification) only state they require the TV to accept a 10bit signal, not display it.

But this is a testament to how little it matters. If you cannot tell by putting a test pattern up on the screen, viewing very close, then you won't be able to tell with normal use.

What you want to look out for are two measurements in reviews. The first is coverage of the rec2020 colour space (this is the colour space HDR uses) and colour volume, which is how much colour is represented at each brightness level along the rec2020 colour space.

The other problem with 10bit panels is a HDMI limitation, its a common misconception that people require 10bit panels. HDMI itself cannot send full colour chroma at UHD resolution using a 10 bit colour depth. It can only do this if it reduces chroma from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2. Therefore it is often better with games (and most consoles do this) to run full chroma with 8bit colour depth.

In short. 10 bit colour depth is not required by HDR. It may be required in the future once TVs start to cover much more of the rec2020 colour space, but not right now.
 

gyro11

Standard Member
What you want to look out for are two measurements in reviews. The first is coverage of the rec2020 colour space (this is the colour space HDR uses) and colour volume, which is how much colour is represented at each brightness level along the rec2020 colour space.

Thanks for this - seems like really good info and not something I had come across elsewhere. Is there such as a thing as 'target values' or boundaries you should be aiming for on a decent TV?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Well using the most comprehensive source of that info would be on rtings.com. Of course here on AVF they measure the coverage in the colour space too see the most recent Hisense review. It scored 66% which is around where most TVs score now. For example last years Samsung KS series scored around that for colour coverage and received UHD premium certification.

Of course you can't compare the new Hisense N6800 to those TVs, they are superior with HDR in other areas, but it gives you a good idea of how far colour comes in just one year.

The best TVs now are scoring around 73% - like the new Samsung Q series.

Colour volume measurement is a lot better as incorporates how well TV's show colour at each brightness level, so far AVF don't measure this, but its only really applicable to TVs that get brighter with HDR. Its far simpler just to look at peak brightness, local dimming and rec2020 coverage.
 

gyro11

Standard Member
So I've been looking into the measurements you have said. The Samsung KS7000 and KS8000 still seem to stack up, and whilst the 7000 is out of stock everywhere, if the KS8000 drops in price I will probably pick one up unless I find something better before hand. I'm wondering whether the TV I've linked below might be that better one - it would be great to get peoples thoughts on this one - it looks pretty decent for the money:

LG 49UJ750V - and its display spec page HERE
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
No, LG LCDs aren't better at all. They use inferior contrast IPS panels and have next to no hardware to display HDR decently. Avoid LG LCDs if you want decent HDR.

Samsungs KS series will be hard to find now, they are 2016 models. You might find them refrub/ex display or you may find one or two on lesser known retailers websites. Be careful with pricing because whilst they were very cheap a couple of months ago some places have marked up prices as they went from trying to sell all of them to having next to no stock.

Now isn't the best buy because of this, 2016 models represented much better value, whilst they are now hard to find. Meanwhile 2017 models are still overpriced and don't represent good value.
 

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