Question Looking for 55" TV, sensitive to stutter

aarste

Active Member
My 7 year old Samsung LE32C530 has served me well, but it's time to go bigger and 4K! My main reason for this TV was for the 24p support, I watch a lot of movies and TV series recorded in 23.976fps on my HTPC and I currently have MPC-HC auto-change the refresh rate to 24hz when going fullscreen, as I hate 3:2 pulldown on 60hz. No stutter/judder is present whatsoever (are these two terms interchangeable btw?) It's when the camera is panning across and I can see small hitches, this bothers me a lot.

I also watch broadcast TV via my Humax HDR-FOX T2, this uses 50hz on my TV and experience no stutter from that either. TV's Smart features are not a strong point as I use the Humax for Freeview HD and the HTPC for Netflix/Amazon Prime.

If I can get a 55" that provides what my current TV can do or better, that would be great. I have my eyes set on the Samsung MU6400, but according to rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p all of Samsung's MU range have judder on 24p? Most of the other TVs listed there are american brands, £1300 or something silly, and/or unavailable in the UK. My TV was only £309 when I bought it in 2010!

Main points:

  • No stutter is top priority, but I hate fixes like soap opera effect, makes it look like people are moving at an unnaturally sped-up rate.
  • Image quality comes second priority.
  • 4K
  • I sit roughly 2m from the TV
  • Usually have to close curtains to watch TV in the day due to reflection from the screen. Not a big deal... I need to do this anyway as afternoon sun is in the direction of my face.
  • a gamer but not competitive.
  • Smart features not important
  • Bonus if I don't have to faff around with changing refresh rates anymore, but I don't think we're there yet?
Dodgexander template:

What are your sources going to be? eg - Do you have fibre internet capable of UHD streams? Will you be buying and using an UHD Blu-Ray player? Netflix? Amazon? Catch up TV? HDR consoles? PC?
Humax HDR-FOX T2 (HD Freeview recorder)
HTPC, up to 4K
Possibly buy a UHD Blu-ray player or games console at later date, currently use a PS3.
Both Netflix and Amazon Prime 4K via the HTPC, fibre broadband 76Mbps.

SD vs HD vs UHD use percentage? eg 20% 60% 20%
SD 5%, HD 95%, UHD whenever possible once I have it.

Movies, football, console games, PC use (in percentage)?
Movies/TV series 90%, Games console 10%

Are you bothered with basic calibration ie discs?
Don't think so

How close can you view the TV?
2 metres

What are you currently using and what do you expect by upgrading to a new TV?
Samsung LE32C530 1080p
Expecting higher resolution and size, and retaining the judder-free feature of my current TV at 24hz. Not having to change refresh rates anymore would be a bonus if that is possible.

Please rearrange the following PQ attributes, in descending importance:

Motion handling (probably best to have these available if I want to fine-tune)
Blacks
Local dimming (Sounds good to have, why not. Usually have trouble seeing dark scenes on my TV)
Viewing angle (head on, not interested in curved screen anyway - they reflect a lot apparently?)
HDR Brightness
HDR Colour Accuracy
HDR Colour Saturation
(Not experienced HDR I don't think, but would be nice to have if it's great as it sounds)
SDR Brightness
SDR Colour Saturation
SDR Colour Accuracy
How accurate the picture is out of the box (without having to change any settings)

Now for bugs, tell us your possible pet hates related to TVs, in descending order:

3:2 Pulldown Judder with 24hz movies. See: Judder-Free 24p on TVs
Soap Opera Effect
Loss of detail in dark areas
Reflective screens
Bad screen uniformity, Dirty Screen Effect, Clouding, Light Bleed, Blooming
Temporary image retention
Haloing
Colour banding. See: Gradients on TVs: Color bit depth (warning this is not the same as vertical banding, for vertical banding see bad screen uniformity)

Now which is most important to you?

Connections (at least 3 HDMI)
HDR PQ
Price - budget of £700 but could go up to £800
SDR PQ
Smart TV
Sound (using a soundbar, 3 optic cable comes from freeview/htpc/ps3. TV sound needs to be able to be switched off).
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
  • 4K
  • I sit roughly 2m from the TV
That is a long way to view even a 65" UHD TV. I would be surprised you see much of a difference with any UHD content.

Bonus if I don't have to faff around with changing refresh rates anymore, but I don't think we're there yet?
Are you referring to changing refresh rates on your input device such as a PC? If so that is dependant on the source, not the TV.

If you want to be able to have a set and forget TV you need to to reach the price of a model with a 120hz panel. In some cases those TVs can detect a different video frame rates even when you output 60hz constantly although it may do this with some detection errors/judder so its still better to get the correct refresh rate on the input device. I suggest you look at solutions with auto refresh rate switching on PC like using MPC-HC and/or the MadVR renderer. Kodi/XBMC varients also support it.

But for recommendations. As you have already seen avoid the Samsung MU6xxx range as they all can't refresh at 24hz. The good news is pretty much every other manufacturer does.

At 55" and needing no wide viewing angles and wanting also good blacks you should look at a TV with a VA type panel.

Your budget is just short of the mid-range where you can obtain a 120hz panel at around £1000. Maybe though if you waited you would be able to obtain one of these models at black friday or even later in spring clearance sales. Models I would recommend at this size are the 55" Sony XE85 series and the 55" Samsung MU7000.

But sticking to current pricing your best option is no doubt the 55" Sony XE70xx series or Hisense N6800.
 

aarste

Active Member
That is a long way to view even a 65" UHD TV. I would be surprised you see much of a difference with any UHD content.


Are you referring to changing refresh rates on your input device such as a PC? If so that is dependant on the source, not the TV.

If you want to be able to have a set and forget TV you need to to reach the price of a model with a 120hz panel. In some cases those TVs can detect a different video frame rates even when you output 60hz constantly although it may do this with some detection errors/judder so its still better to get the correct refresh rate on the input device. I suggest you look at solutions with auto refresh rate switching on PC like using MPC-HC and/or the MadVR renderer. Kodi/XBMC varients also support it.
I have been able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p from 2m on a 32", and the choice for 55" was based on rting's range calculator. Not sure I can afford to go 65" at this point in time though.

Yes, will continue to use MPC-HC's auto refresh rate changer in this case.

I have heard about 120hz being ideal for 24hz content as it fits neatly 5 times into 120hz. Based on your two recommendations is Samsung MU7000 the only one capable of it? I could only find 100hz max with Sony's XE85 range.

Your budget is just short of the mid-range where you can obtain a 120hz panel at around £1000. Maybe though if you waited you would be able to obtain one of these models at black friday or even later in spring clearance sales. Models I would recommend at this size are the 55" Sony XE85 series and the 55" Samsung MU7000.

But sticking to current pricing your best option is no doubt the 55" Sony XE70xx series or Hisense N6800.
Thanks for your help, will have to think whether to buy now or wait for your recommended models to drop in price. Is there a reason why the XE7003 costs more than the 7073 on johnlewis? Only difference I found was 7073 had the option of 400hz motion, 200 more than the 7003, if that's toggle-able by choice then the 7073 would cost more I'd thought.

Also does Hisense have a list of supported video signals like Sony do on their specs sheet?
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
I have heard about 120hz being ideal for 24hz content as it fits neatly 5 times into 120hz. Based on your two recommendations is Samsung MU7000 the only one capable of it? I could only find 100hz max with Sony's XE85 range.
All models that are marketed as 100hz are using 120hz panels. They are sometimes referred to as 100hz in Europe because of PAL standards. Same with 60hz tv's here marketed as 50hz. But nowadays most 60hz panels can also refresh at 24hz, you don't need 120hz to play 24hz content without judder now.

The only reason I mentioned 120hz is because you can send a 60hz signal to the TV without changing refresh rate dynamically at the source and use the TVs detection to play content without judder.

I have been able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p from 2m on a 32", and the choice for 55" was based on rting's range calculator.
You either have very acute eyesight or your sources use very different compression/bit rates. 55" on their calculator is based on field of view, not resolution. Anyhow the difference between FHD and UHD is much less apparent than SD>FHD. Its only a guideline but you can look at the graph for resolution on the same page you can see whilst 1080p content tracks similarly to normal field of view UHD means you have to view a lot closer.

Remember the people who said they couldn't tell a difference between SD and FHD? That is even more common with FHD>UHD.

Is there a reason why the XE7003 costs more than the 7073 on johnlewis? Only difference I found was 7073 had the option of 400hz motion, 200 more than the 7003, if that's toggle-able by choice then the 7073 would cost more I'd thought.
You have already pointed out the differences. Only applies if you use motionflow which most people like to keep disabled.

There are different colours in the range too, just have a look at Sony's website.

Also does Hisense have a list of supported video signals like Sony do on their specs sheet?
What signals are you looking for? They aren't different from other TVs in the sense they will accept 24/25/30/50/60hz.
 
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