1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Longevity of recorded DVDs - 6 months??

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by DennyL, May 7, 2005.

  1. DennyL

    DennyL
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    113
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +2
    I came across a post on a newsgroup that might be of interest to people on this forum. It is from the newsgroup alt.video.dvd.tech. Here it is:-

    <<I've got a real problem here....... I've been noticing that alot of my recorded DVD's are pixelating or locking up my set top players. When I record a disc, either in my Sony 510 recorder or my NEC 2500 recorder, I do a scan with DVDInfoPro and they usually test perfect with no bad blocks. I watch them within a few days of when I record them and have never had a problem in the over 400 movies i've recorded. However lately it seems like every recorded disc over 6 months old is either pixelating or locking up my set top players. When I scan them with DVDInfoPro again or CD/DVD Speed Scan Disc, these discs have numurous errors and unreadable blocks, no matter what recorder or dvd-rom i scan them with. The discs vary in brand, I have Verbatems, TDK's, Princo's, Fuji (Taiwan), CMC's and Riteks. As I said earlier, When recorded, these discs scanned and played perfectly so I doubt it's the 2 recorders. I store them in jewel cases in my home office. Now I have a ton of Princo and CMC CD's which I recorded several years ago and I've scanned random discs and none have shown any errors. Today, I scanned around 8 random age recorded DVD's and every one
    has unreadable blocks. Now this really sucks BIG time !!!!!! Are all these discs prone to short term failure ????? I can't believe I'm the only one noticing this problem but I haven't seem mention of it in these newsgroups. Have I wasted hundreds of dollars on media which won't last beyond a few months ????? Is anyone else getting these failures ???? >>
     
  2. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    This is entirely normal - and something I have been trying to tell people for years. I have even written an article about it. Unfortunately too many people want to stick their head in the sand and say there is no problem - accordingly that article gets me more hate mail than anything else :( Like I care...

    My advice is:

    1) Use a wide selection of good brand DVDR media and make multiple (more than 2) copies of your recordings on different makes/types of discs.

    2) Every now and then burn new copies (again on a variety of media) of your recordings by using DVD Decrypter to copy the files to your PC!

    3) Using 'other' backup methods: DVD-RAM (still optical media), removeable HDD, tape drives etc etc in addition to DVDRs.

    4) Ensure storage conditions are as good as you can make them and limit handling of the discs (I always produce one DVD-R especially for daily use).

    All in all the vast majority of my discs (many of which are from 2001/2) are still in perfect working order. About 10% have failed over time: some taking months, others failing within weeks of being burnt. Thankfully due to an extensive backup policy I have never lost data yet.
     
  3. pjclark1

    pjclark1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,411
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +271
    I've got to agree
    I've had over 50 ritek G04 printables dvd-r fail completely in less than 6 months.
    Princo don't last very long either (against the law to sell Princo in the EU now)

    test em every 6 months or you will be sorry.
     
  4. Jules

    Jules
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Messages:
    5,052
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +721
    Why is that? They weren't THAT bad surely!
    I've still got some early Datawrite Yellows and BulkPaq Orange that use Princo dye, and they all still work fine.

    Got to be honest though, I would agree it might be prudent to make multiple backups of cherished material like your wedding video, or your kids growing up.

    But, I don't think many people (including myself) would undergo such a comprehensive backup routine for every disc in their collection.
    You'd never be away from your PC, blank media stores and your bank manager!

    I'd also add that all my original recordings from 3-4 years ago still work, so I'm not panicking! After all, I could be hit by a bus tomorrrow!
     
  5. Paul O

    Paul O
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Messages:
    474
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +20
    What ever happened to the fantastic DVD-Rs that I read about sometime ago? I think it was TDK that had released them and guaranteed a huge lifespan - they were recommended for home videos and things that are important etc. They were never actually reviewed, just in a news section of HCC I think.

    Did they fall by the wayside, or are they in short supply??
     
  6. Loobster

    Loobster
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +31
    I have made sure to buy +R disks with high quality dye (Ricoh or MCC media code) since I started DVD recording three years ago. I've tested them periodically and had no problems so far.

    I will say that although you have been able to get higher quality -R disks recently, this was not always the case, and at the time that +R was getting a foothold in the market the market was awash with crap quality -R media. It's gone the other way for +R now, originally you could only get good quality stuff, now there are a lot of poor DVD+R blanks from cheaper makers and rebdgers.

    When you can get Ricoh coded +R disks for 20p each I really don't see the point in buying anything else.

    --Loob.
     
  7. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    Loobster,

    :nono: You may get away with that sort of rubbish on Digital Spy where nobody knows better but it isn't going to wash here. Anyone who has been around the DVDR scene for more than 5mins knows that is total rubbish - just to kick off the debate would you care to comment on Pioneer DVD-Rs - which for the last 3 years have been regarded as the holy grail of optical media?

    Media quality for DVD-R and DVD+R is equal - you can good and bad for both formats. Perhaps you think that Verbatim, TDK, Maxell and all the other major media producers opt to produce low quality DVD-R and high quality DVD+R :suicide: Give me a break!

    Because most people want to use THE most compatible media - see here. :)
     
  8. Loobster

    Loobster
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +31
    Well that's your opinion, to which you are of course entitled.

    I don't know what the purpose of posting that link was, I see no compatibility information on that page.

    And the fact that there is good and bad media for both formats is obvious, and in fact that's exactly what I said.

    I've never used Pioneer brand disks so can't comment on them personally.

    You seem to be ascribing assertions to me that I have not made, I don't know what you are on about with the comment about named brands making bad -R and good +R media, I made no such assertion.

    I suggest you read my posts more carefully next time.

    --Loob.
     
  9. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    Then I suggest you look a bit more carefully.

    Well at leats then you agree that you comment "although you have been able to get higher quality -R disks recently, this was not always the case" was just made up then!
     
  10. Loobster

    Loobster
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +31
    Ahh, yes I see it now. You are referring to the figures produces by a study that was purposely biased against +R/RW by using a number of players known to be crippled against DVD+ in firmware. How objective.

    The most compatible DVDR possible is a high quality DVD+R which is booktyped DVD-Rom. Then it's DVD-R. Then DVD+R (booktype +R).

    That's why some very old players (like old Toshibas) won't play any other DVDR than DVD+R (DVD-Rom).

    Contrary to the opinion of some, I am not biased against -R/RW, I have equipment that records to all formats (including RAM), and my main set top recorder is a Pioneer -R/RW device.

    But I don't care for DVD- fanaticism, people spouting garbage just because they have spent cash on DVD-R/RW/RAM kit.

    --Loob.
     
  11. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    Nice try Loobster - but no. I was referring to - and linked to - the database of all DVD players and recorders showing compatibility data. It is not a study - it is a complete assessment completed by 10,000s users. Totally independant of + and/or - camps. I assume you are unable to access links or that would have been totally obvious!?!

    Booktype DVD+R is more compatible than DVD+R - but there are still players that won't touch it. Machines based on the Toshiba 1612 for example - which will still happily play DVD-R. It goes without saying that examples exist the other way around as well. Unfortunately we will probably never get a good feel for DVD+R booktype compatibility as not all burners are capable of setting it - and thus people like you can just make up arbitary statements like the one you did. Frankly though the rest of us will stick to the facts: the evidence is in favour of DVD-R being the most compatible format at present.

    No of course not.... LOL!
     
  12. Loobster

    Loobster
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +31
    I'm not unable to do so. Just too lazy to do so.

    In any case I don't need to read about what I already know. And that is that you can find figures to "prove" whatever you like. Most of those who submit such information use crappy media (this can be seen by the number of Prodisc and Princo submissions) and this can skew the results dramatically.

    Let's face it - anyone who knows anything about DVD recording knows that the biggest single factor affecting compatibility is media quality, not format. A highly reflective disk of either -R or +R format will likely play in most players.

    On the subject of bias, you can of course draw your own conclusion (even if it's wrong), I'm happy to recommend all manner of -R/RW/RAM/HDD devices on the forums and have slated +RW manufacturers on occasion due to lack of product testing and poor customer service (i.e. Philips DVD recorders). Perhaps you can make up some clever wording to reconcile that with a "bias" toward +RW.

    --Loob.
     
  13. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    Do you have access to another large, open forum which has compatibility statements for over 10,000 players/recorders then Loobster? Sure local compatibility tests can be tweaked to say whatever you want but not VideoHelp.

    But, to quote you, "originally you could only get good quality [DVD+R]" whilst "the market was awash with crap quality [DVD]-R media" - which would suggest we should be seeing completely the opposite result from the one quoted. Come on Loobster - if you're going to spout rubbish please do it consistantly ;) Are are you now saying good quality media doesn't play in anything? :cool:
     
  14. Loobster

    Loobster
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +31
    I think you're having some trouble with the english language.

    After all this time has passed since both formats have been available relatively equally, I would expect even potentially skewed compatibility "results" to be close. Which they appear to be.

    I can see that you aren't very open minded on this subject. And let's face it, the forums the world over are sick of people having this same debate week after week. So there's no point in continuing it. No doubt you'll mark that last comment as me "running away" from an argument, which is your prerogative.

    If you're so knowlegeable, perhaps you could contribute to my thread on aspect ratios and DVD authoring? :D

    Have a nice day!

    --Loob.
     
  15. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    The ironic thing was I was typing a reply, went to copy your username to the top of the post, saw who it was and deleted it. Off the top of my head I can think of three packages that could be used in one way or another to achieve what you want. I'm even more sure I know how the whole issue could become a non-issue without spending a single penny.

    But the bottomline is I am not preapred to provide any advice/assistance to you Loobster based on comments you have made on the DS forum. ;) I'm sure someone else will help :)
     
  16. Loobster

    Loobster
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +31
    Why am I not surprised.

    --Loob.
     
  17. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    ...because most other people wouldn't help you either? Which is presumably why have you have left DS.
     
  18. Jules

    Jules
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Messages:
    5,052
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +721
    Stop it... both of you. Go to your room!

    Good grief.
     
  19. Loobster

    Loobster
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    639
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +31
    I haven't "left" DS.

    I presumed that I might find knowledgeable and helpful people here. I'm hoping that others aren't as childish as you seem to be, based on this thread.

    As I said, have a good day. :hiya:

    --Loob.
     
  20. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    You will...
     
  21. pjclark1

    pjclark1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,411
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +271
    princo media is now illegal to sell in the EU, as they refuse to pay philips the 7c royalties due on every dvdr, as philips have the patient rights on cdr/dvdr.
     
  22. Jazzie

    Jazzie
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    42
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Middle of Nowhere
    Ratings:
    +2
    OK, ignoring the sniping, you guys have me worried now. :eek:

    I have literally hundred of VHS tapes I want to archive, at a guess about 900 hours worth at least. I'm looking for a new recorder as I'm having problems with the current one (see my post about the Panny EH50) but are you saying I might as well not bother?

    I have no problem in paying for top quality discs if that's what it takes (finding them is another matter) but frankly to run back ups of that number of discs would be out of the question for me.
     
  23. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    No - do it - but keep your VHS as backups! Like you I have hundreds of irreplaceable TV recordings on Betamax, VHS and S-VHS. I have now archived all of them on all types of DVDR (multiple times!) but I still have the original tapes. Infact I have just had the builders in to prepare a suitable storage that is out of sight but safe.
     
  24. Jazzie

    Jazzie
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    42
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Middle of Nowhere
    Ratings:
    +2
    If only I could, the whole of my front room is filled with tapes, I originally had over 500 but thinned them down to those I really wanted to keep.

    Unfortunately with a small house and fast growing family it's copy or lose them altogether, as DVDs will take only a third of the space. Aside from which I was keen to preserve them before they degrade even further, I understood VHS had a relatively short shelf life or have I got it wrong??
     
  25. MartinImber

    MartinImber
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Messages:
    3,851
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Worcester
    Ratings:
    +21
    My Beta tapes are slowly getting put in the loft

    I also got a Sony SLHF100P as a spare VCR as well

    The VTCM40 would survive a Nuclear explosion only needing replacement belts
     
  26. MartinImber

    MartinImber
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Messages:
    3,851
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Worcester
    Ratings:
    +21
    I find that old Beta tapes hold up a hell of a lot better than old Vhs tapes

    Some of mine are 22 years old, some are 6 months old (recording tape is 10 years old)
     
  27. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    VHS degrades over time but will remain playable. With optical media you can have a fairly sudden, complete failure. If keeping the VHS isn't an option then I suggest multiple backups - at least these you can put in a jewel case and stow them away.
     
  28. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,217
    Nice. I have the SLHF950 which I picked up 85/6(?) - the 'killer feature' being a scart socket of all things and the editing! Not that much different from today's DVDR requirements :) It's now my only working machine so if it breaks I'll need to buy a new one. I suppose that could cost me a bit.

    Wasn't the 100P a 'Professional' model?
     
  29. DennyL

    DennyL
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Messages:
    113
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +2
    Here is a nother post from the same thread in alt.video.dvd.tech:-

    <<I asked to 3 or 4 friends who recorded a lot of dvd's. All of them including
    myself encounter the same problem randomly. I've seen a in-depth article
    about this topic in a Dutch magazine where they named the actual dvd
    production a real nightmare. There are only a few dvd (generally unknown)
    manufacturers who sell their products to many brands. The only way to find
    out what you buy is to read the very small digits on the dvd (unfortunally,
    this is only possible AFTER the purchase). Those will tell you who the
    manufacturer is and what quality standard was used.
    I can tell you for exemple that I recently purchased 2 boxes of 10 Memorex
    dvd's. 7 out of 10 of one box could not be read after burning, while all of
    the other box were ok. The boxes were purchased together in an identical
    packaging. After checking the numbers and compare them with the information,
    I found out that the boxes came from different manufactures. I had a similar
    story with TDK...
    And this happened only 30 minutes after burning !
    The conclusion is that self burned (opto magnetic) dvd's have very low
    quality, but that some are a little better than others. For commercial dvd's
    another burning process is used (pressing) and this works perfectly.
    For me the recordable dvd business for consumers is pure theft ! >>

    I have embarked on moving my VHS tapes to DVD because the tapes were taking up so much room. Now I'm wondering whether I should buy a computer tape backup drive and and backup this material, once it is in digital form, to tape or whatever. For me, the backup regime recommended by Rasczak would be a completely impractical nightmare. This makes me realize what a wonderful storage medium vinyl was. I have many LPs 30 years old which play fine apart from a few pops and clicks.
     
  30. musukebba

    musukebba
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    What you are describing is a common problem for people who buy by disc brand rather than media code. There are a few brands which are consistently associated with good quality manufacturers: Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden, TDK and few others, but these are oten faked.

    The answer is simple - buy from a reputable supplier who clearly advertises the disc manufacturer (via the media code). Don't get stuff from computer fairs or on-line bargain shops.

    However this is different from what others are saying here, which is to do with disc longevity. Disc quality is a good starting point when considering recording longevity, but the type of DVD burner, its firmware version, and the burning speed have a significant impact as well. It also matters where you record on the disc, since the outer areas are subject to higher datarate transfers and are much more likely to fail. For this reason I would never worry about filling a DVD unless it matters, even to the extent of putting a 1 hour MPEG2 file on an 18p top quality disc.Storage is another factor - some people keep discs in plastic sleeves, which may have a corrosive effect on the recording surface. Also bear in mind that the quoted 1000x rewrite average longevity of a +RW or -RW disc is immediately halved if you always blank the disc before re-recording.

    I second the view that any original recordings made on tape should be preserved until a better idea can be obtained about how long DVDs last. If storage space for VHS's is a problem, then can I suggest my solution, which reduces the space needed by about 80%? The internal tape transport in a VHS cassette is very simple and easily re-threaded. On a fully rewound tape, unscrew the cassette and take out the spools, one full and one empty. There's a little plastic clip holding the leader end onto the empty spool which can be easily removed to free the tape. Write the tape info on the leader with a CD marker pen, stick the leader down with editing/splicing sellotape and store the full spool as you would a reel-to-reel. Useful cardboard boxes from Staples, Ryman etc. Keep a few empty disassembled cassette shells around and if you need to make a copy, which hopefully won't be that frequent, rethread the tape into the cassette and screw it back together.

    BTW, to avoid propagating misunderstandings, recordable DVDs are not opto-magnetic but merely optical, and commercial DVDs are pressed an a process analogous to vinyl LPs. They are not 'burned'.
     

Share This Page

Loading...