Long turntable lead

DT79

Well-known Member
You could do a lot worse than the Blue Jeans LC-1 cable (LC standing for Low Capacitance). I’ve just got a pair of these as I have started having a play with some vintage MM cartridges and calculated that my capacitance was a bit on the high side (with the otherwise excellent Van Damme XKE interconnects)

It’s a touch expensive compared to some options, but not that much in the grand scheme of things.

 

Baron Mole

Active Member
Bit more info as to the input capacitance of the M3Si phono input which is 100pF. The supplied Project cable is 125pF and as for the cartridge who knows as Nagaoka seem to be in lockdown.
So the cartridge is currently seeing 225pF. Do we have Ross Moloney to thank for that info ?

When building my loading box I looked at recommended capacitances for a selection of cartridges up to £500.

200pF or less - all AT, Mofi, Clearaudio, Goldring 2000 series.
Ortofon Red 150-300pF, Ortofon OM5 derivitives and Concorde 200-500pF.
No recommendation - Sumiko, Project, Grado, Nagaoka.
My old Shure V15/III 400-500pF.

I'd like to think that no recommendation meant the cartridge wasn't fussy, but the graphs in the link I previously provided ( MP-11 test) suggest this is wishful thinking.

Are you suggesting that you could replace the existing Project cable with a 3m cable ?

If so here's a leftfield suggestion for £7.99 (was £74.99) and it's from a site sponsor
Fisual Super Pearl Silver Reference Component Video Cable 3m - Component Video Cables - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

I bought some 2m versions for £4.99 to use as interconnects because decent RCA plugs alone would have cost more. I've measured the capacitance as 60pF/m. It's very well made and fully shielded.

So replacing the existing project cable would mean the cartridge would see 280pF (3x60 + 100) instead of 225pF, which is unlikely to have much of an effect. I'm not necessarily suggesting this as a permanent solution as sadly it's not possible to cut the 3 cables down to a pair due to the heavy welded-on black strapping you can see in the picture.

However it would give you the opportunity to see if there were interference issues and how critical the capacitance issue is. Then you could decide whether to go for just a long cable or the expense of a phono stage.
 
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bogart99

Well-known Member
You could do a lot worse than the Blue Jeans LC-1 cable (LC standing for Low Capacitance). I’ve just got a pair of these as I have started having a play with some vintage MM cartridges and calculated that my capacitance was a bit on the high side (with the otherwise excellent Van Damme XKE interconnects)

It’s a touch expensive compared to some options, but not that much in the grand scheme of things.

I have looked at them and am a bit confused. Smallest one I can see is a 5 channel affair.
 

bogart99

Well-known Member
So the cartridge is currently seeing 225pF. Do we have Ross Moloney to thank for that info ?

When building my loading box I looked at recommended capacitances for a selection of cartridges up to £500.

200pF or less - all AT, Mofi, Clearaudio, Goldring 2000 series.
Ortofon Red 150-300pF, Ortofon OM5 derivitives and Concorde 200-500pF.
No recommendation - Sumiko, Project, Grado, Nagaoka.
My old Shure V15/III 400-500pF.

I'd like to think that no recommendation meant the cartridge wasn't fussy, but the graphs in the link I previously provided ( MP-11 test) suggest this is wishful thinking.

Are you suggesting that you could replace the existing Project cable with a 3m cable ?

If so here's a leftfield suggestion for £7.99 (was £74.99) and it's from a site sponsor
Fisual Super Pearl Silver Reference Component Video Cable 3m - Component Video Cables - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

I bought some 2m versions for £4.99 to use as interconnects because decent RCA plugs alone would have cost more. I've measured the capacitance as 60pF/m. It's very well made and fully shielded.

So replacing the existing project cable would mean the cartridge would see 280pF (3x60 + 100) instead of 225pF, which is unlikely to have much of an effect. I'm not necessarily suggesting this as a permanent solution as sadly it's not possible to cut the 3 cables down to a pair due to the heavy welded-on black strapping you can see in the picture.

However it would give you the opportunity to see if there were interference issues and how critical the capacitance issue is. Then you could decide whether to go for just a long cable or the expense of a phono stage.
Yes got the figure 100pF from Ross after he contacted MF
So the cartridge is currently seeing 225pF. Do we have Ross Moloney to thank for that info ?

When building my loading box I looked at recommended capacitances for a selection of cartridges up to £500.

200pF or less - all AT, Mofi, Clearaudio, Goldring 2000 series.
Ortofon Red 150-300pF, Ortofon OM5 derivitives and Concorde 200-500pF.
No recommendation - Sumiko, Project, Grado, Nagaoka.
My old Shure V15/III 400-500pF.

I'd like to think that no recommendation meant the cartridge wasn't fussy, but the graphs in the link I previously provided ( MP-11 test) suggest this is wishful thinking.

Are you suggesting that you could replace the existing Project cable with a 3m cable ?

If so here's a leftfield suggestion for £7.99 (was £74.99) and it's from a site sponsor
Fisual Super Pearl Silver Reference Component Video Cable 3m - Component Video Cables - AV Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

I bought some 2m versions for £4.99 to use as interconnects because decent RCA plugs alone would have cost more. I've measured the capacitance as 60pF/m. It's very well made and fully shielded.

So replacing the existing project cable would mean the cartridge would see 280pF (3x60 + 100) instead of 225pF, which is unlikely to have much of an effect. I'm not necessarily suggesting this as a permanent solution as sadly it's not possible to cut the 3 cables down to a pair due to the heavy welded-on black strapping you can see in the picture.

However it would give you the opportunity to see if there were interference issues and how critical the capacitance issue is. Then you could decide whether to go for just a long cable or the expense of a phono stage.
Have just ordered a set. At £7.99 like you say the plugs probably cost a lot more. Just as an aside I get a fair bit from AV and I like they are on the list of Aid For Animals as one of their charity offerings. Costs nothing to the buyer and every penny goes to help animals.
 

Baron Mole

Active Member
Have just ordered a set. At £7.99 like you say the plugs probably cost a lot more. Just as an aside I get a fair bit from AV and I like they are on the list of Aid For Animals as one of their charity offerings. Costs nothing to the buyer and every penny goes to help animals.
:thumbsup:

I too have always been very happy with AV. I've ordered stuff and sent it back and recently ordered a stylus I knew was out of stock. AV immediately gave me an expected date and asked if I was prepared to wait. All very efficient, no quibble and they go the extra mile.
 

musicphil

Active Member
If you do I end up with capacitance match, you could well remove the caps within the phono amp this could well give you more options.
Or alternatively go down the MC route....
 

DT79

Well-known Member
If you do I end up with capacitance match, you could well remove the caps within the phono amp this could well give you more options.
Or alternatively go down the MC route....
Ah but then he has to worry about resistance :)
 

DT79

Well-known Member

Baron Mole

Active Member
If you do I end up with capacitance match, you could well remove the caps within the phono amp this could well give you more options.
Er, well, YOU could !

I'm happy to open up my old equipment to replace failed/old electrolytic caps for example, but it usually involves removing the relevant internal board, desoldering etc etc. I've the equipment, knowledge, circuit diagrams and confidence to do it but still hate it. And you'd need to know the appropriate caps and how this would affect the circuit, will MF provide this information ?

Even so, I wouldn't want to mess around with newish and pricey kit, especially when there's other easier options.
 
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musicphil

Active Member
Ah but then he has to worry about resistance :)
I did it with a Cambridge cp2 as it had a 220pf, and was trying out a At 4400 cartridge which was overly bright on a couple of tracks. Turned out AT like it around 150pf. Snipped one leg of each cap.
It was probably the cheapest and most impacted upgrade I had ever done.
I had a 47 to put in replace - but never needed to use it.
 

musicphil

Active Member
Er, well, YOU could !

I'm happy to open up my old equipment to replace failed/old electrolytic caps for example, but it usually involves removing the relevant internal board, desoldering etc etc. I've the equipment, knowledge, circuit diagrams and confidence to do it but still hate it. And you'd need to know the appropriate caps and how this would affect the circuit, will MF provide this information ?

Even so, I wouldn't want to mess around with newish and pricey kit, especially when there's other easier options.
The OP said he might get a phono amp and use line input on the MF.
So no issues with opening up expensive amps.
Cheap S/H modded phono amp will do the trick. Also opens up possibilities of trying AT cartridges at a later date.
 
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Baron Mole

Active Member
The OP said he might get a phono amp and use line input on the MF.
So no issues with opening up expensive amps.
Cheap S/H modded phono amp will do the trick.
Fair enough. Got hold of the wrong end of the stick !
 
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bogart99

Well-known Member
If you do I end up with capacitance match, you could well remove the caps within the phono amp this could well give you more options.
Or alternatively go down the MC route....
All sounds awfully complicated. I like the plug it in a and listen scenario.
 
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TheHighFlyingBirds

Well-known Member
Very useful thread. After reading it, I had to look up the capacitance of my yammy AS501 phono input, seems to be 470pf, well above what my AT VM95e likes (100-200pf). I really need to order a zen phono (but no space on my rack currently, really need to get rid of a playstation).
 

camcroft

Well-known Member
Very useful thread. After reading it, I had to look up the capacitance of my yammy AS501 phono input, seems to be 470pf, well above what my AT VM95e likes (100-200pf). I really need to order a zen phono (but no space on my rack currently, really need to get rid of a playstation).
Yes Zen Phono all the way.
 

Baron Mole

Active Member
Very useful thread. After reading it, I had to look up the capacitance of my yammy AS501 phono input, seems to be 470pf, well above what my AT VM95e likes (100-200pf). I really need to order a zen phono
Just a couple of observations - 470pF seems ludicrously high ( by the time the capacitance of TT lead is added, say 125pF, it would mean the phono input wouldn't suit any MM cartridge I know) - I've had a look at the AS501 manual and it doesn't specify capacitance - all I can see is 'Input sensitivity/Input impedance PHONO (MM) 3.0 mV/47 kΩ'.

Does the AT VM95e sound very very bright which it would with that capacitance ? If you're happy with the way it sounds there may be no need to spend on a phono stage £££ :smashin:

Finally I'd always recommend having a phono stage with variable capacitance to give flexibility for using different cartridges in the future - plus tweaking if you're so inclined ;)
 
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TheHighFlyingBirds

Well-known Member
I saw the figure quoted on another forum (so taken with a pinch of salt), but had a look at the schematic in the service manual and it shows a 470pf cap along side the 47kohm resistor.
Screenshot_20210726-144656.jpg

To be honest, it sounds ok to me (and one of the reasons I've held off buying a phono stage as unsure if it'll improve the sound), but I have nothing to reference it against. Also my speakers (q3050's) are quite warm sounding.
 

Baron Mole

Active Member
@TheHighFlyingBirds

I've found a review of A-S501 from a very technically accomplished reviewer who understands the importance of cartridge loading - I've followed his reviews for some time and he's as pedantic as I am in ensuring his statements are factually correct !

Yamaha A-S501 Review - Audio Appraisal
Which says:-
'The phono stage is an opamp-based stage. Cartridge loading is fixed at 47K ohms, 220PF – so it will work well with the majority of moving magnet cartridges. While it’s not particularly sensitive, requiring the volume to be raised above that of most line-level sources, it’s quiet, distortion-free and sounds excellent.'

I'm not an expert in circuitry design but I think the capacitance seen by the cartridge will be the result of the whole circuit design and the fact that there's a capacitor of 470pF next to a 47kOhm resistor could lead to misunderstanding. That capacitors position in the circuit would not produce a 470pF load.

If I were you I wouldn't worry about it - it's how the whole sysytem sounds after all - and if the cartridge is a bit bright you've got tone controls. :clap:
 
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