Long distance hdmi - cat help

Discussion in 'Cables & Switches' started by seneca, Jul 6, 2018.

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    1. seneca

      seneca
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      Hello,

      I'm a bit new to all this hdmi stuff, so please bear with me. Here is my set up

      room 1 - sky hd+ box with connection coming in from the dish
      room 2 - (15-20m run along outside of house) tv only
      room 3 - (15-20m run outside of house) tv only
      upload_2018-7-6_8-39-28.png
      What I would like to achieve is to have the sky hd signal in room 1, also come on in room 2 and 3. I only want to watch the same channel that is on the sky box in room 1 (it's for my mother who doesn't stray from an Asian tv channel, but occasionally goes in into rooms 2 &3. A way of getting her out of the living room (1) and around the house (2&3)

      How do I get the signal out of the sky hd+ box? What do I split it with for the 2 other rooms and what must it be converted to and back again for each tv in rooms 2 & 3? Can anyone recommend a cable to use and help me with a shopping list for what I need? Thanks.
       
    2. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      SD Distribution - which version of the SKY+ HD box do you have, do you have a TV aerial Distribution system in place and what size are the TVs in rooms 2 and 3?

      HD Distribution - there are a few ways you can go with this one:

      A. 1x3 HDMI Distribution Amp + 2 x 15m HDMI cables* (run within external grade conduit over the external sections).
      *You will need to consider Hybrid Fibre or Active HDMI rather than a conventional passive cable.

      B. 1x3 HDMI Distribution Amp + 2 x HDMI over CAT Extenders (using CAT6 + external grade conduit or external grade CAT6 cable).

      C. 1x3 HDMI+CAT Distribution Amp (using CAT6 + external grade conduit or external grade CAT6 cable).

      D. HD over RF - if you have a 'TV aerial' cables in place plus suitable Digital Tuners in TV's 2 and 3 you can add an HDMI to RF converter at the rear of the SKY+ HD box.

      E. Upgrade to SKY Q, pay the £12/month multi-room Sub and add SKY Q mini box's (£99/each) in Rooms 2 and 3.

      Joe
       
    3. seneca

      seneca
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      Thanks for the response. I'm not sure which version of Sky + HD I have, how do I find out?

      These options seem good, if I can also split the signal at each room and have an ethernet connection for my future music server plan. Presumably, as I will have an ethernet connection in rooms 2 and 3, I could split the CAT6 into 2, so one for the tv and one for future ethernet use?
      Could you briefly explain the difference between options B and C. I'm new to these things and trying to get together a list of things I need and a sketch, similar to mine, of how it all goes together. Thanks.
       
    4. andy1249

      andy1249
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      HDMI over category uses the category cable to send a HDMI TMDS signal , not an ethernet signal.
      You cant split them.
      If you want ethernet as well. You typically need to run an extra category cable.
       
    5. seneca

      seneca
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      Oh, well, live and learn. Is there a standard ethernet? which is the one go for, if I need to run one of those as well? I suppose a conduit with both is preferable, that way my cables don't need to be exterior grade and will be neater inside one housing.
      Still the issue of which of Joe's 2 options to go for, then I'll see if I can sketch a diagram and draw up a shopping list, to get it checked beforehand. Thanks
       
    6. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      Option C. where you have the Extender Transmitters inbuilt into the Distribution Amp (DA) is usually the better option as those devices usually offer you EDID Management plus ‘routed’ IR from the Zones back to the Source via the CAT cable which connects the DA to the Zone Receiver.

      Ideally you find a solution which powers the Zone Receivers over the CAT cable too - makes for a simpler installation at the rear of the TV.

      As Andy says your Network should run on a separate cable.

      Joe
       
    7. seneca

      seneca
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      Hello again. Firstly, thanks to Joe and Andy for the useful advice. A few updates
      I've got a new updated sketch of my requirements and a pic of my sky box.
      Looks at costs and my needs - basic signal ie. what I get on my main sky box being sent to 3 tvs, I'm now looking at active hdmi, with all it's limitations, but it should give me the same quality of sky picture, shouldn't it?
      Any recommendations for decent exterior grade cables that can do this, preferably with a buying link, so I can compare prices? Afraid, whilst hybrid fibre may be better, my budget for 2 extensions will not manage it, particularly when the signal will now only be the sky signal.
      Thanks
       

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    8. seneca

      seneca
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      Sorry folks. I had been comparing prices of active hdmi against hybrid fibre. Just realised I hadn't compared with cat 6 conversion. I'll have a look online for that and get back to you with options. Suppose I should have read up from previous forum posts, as it seems to have been asked before! Sorry
       
    9. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      Your connectivity - will be:

      SKY Q > HDMI Distribution Amp (Input 1)

      HDMI Distribution Amp > Output A > Main TV

      HDMI Distribution Amp > Output B > Room 2

      HDMI Distribution Amp > Output C > Room 3

      Active HDMI - ensure you thoroughly test the above with any long cables or any extenders you select before you bury cables into walls or external runs.

      Control - don't forget about how you plan to control the SKY Q box from Room's 2 and 3.

      Joe
       
    10. seneca

      seneca
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      Sorry it's been so late in getting back to my enquiry (busy with work/family), but coming back with a few queries:

      Is there a way to tell the difference between regular hdmi, active and fibre? So many websites don't actually state it (Amazon), so I imagine it is numbers/specification that distinguishes them.

      Previously I had been going for
      Incidentally I don't have Q, just the regular +HD. I had been favouring Active, as it seemed the optimum budget/mid price option, However I have come across a couple of fibre on Amazon that are similarly priced. I was wondering if anyone had any experience or opinions on them (15m lengths and will be in conduit outside.)

      UGREEN HDMI Cable, 15 Meter Fiber Optic HDMI 2.0 Cable Premium High Speed 18Gbps HDMI Lead Support [email protected]
      https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Cab...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=47VPWVKH91F9JDYXR30M

      This very cable can be bought direct from the company in Hong Kong, for half the amazon price.
      Ugreen HDMI to HDMI Cable 2.0 Fiber Optic 4K 60Hz High Speed for Nintendo Switch | eBay

      Any thoughts? Risky? Amazon or ebay?

      Also come across a Monoprice that bizarrely appears to get cheaper as it gets longer!
      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Monoprice-...onoprice+SlimRun+AV+HDR+High+Speed+Cable&th=1

      This has good reviews, but not sure because of the price? A fake?

      I've now found a few fibre
       
    11. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      Fibre HDMI - remember to differentiate between Fibre and Hybrid Fibre cables. We find the Hybrid Fibre (we supply RuiPro) to be the more reliable, robust and system friendly option.

      Amazon - is a nightmare when it comes to listings and trying to tidy up bad info on product pages, for the most part the folk making the listings throw the kitchen sink at the product pages to make them as 'sticky' as possible. It is best to not rely on the 'Info' on Amazon and dig a bit deeper elsewhere.

      Joe
       
    12. seneca

      seneca
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      Thanks Joe. Wise words as usual and will continue digging. I know what you mean about Amazon, though the Ugreen gets good reviews from buyers who were originally sceptical. Half the price of the Ruipro and even cheaper if bought direct from ebay (£66). Difficult to tell which is fibre and which is hybrid. Do both these fibre varieties need a special kind of amplifier, or will I just need something to split my original sky signal to go three ways? Need some idea of what kind of distributer I need.
       
    13. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      Hybrid Fibre HDMI (such as our RuiPro cables) retain copper conductors - this allows us to maintain the DDC communication channel, which results in better HDCP and EDID integrity.

      The copper conductors also allow for a stronger and more robust cable without having to go to a fully 'ruggedised' design - which we do support for the Pro market.

      Fibre HDMI - has to convert the complete HDMI signal to run over Fibre, we find this results in long handshakes, long switching delays and often getting 2160p60 full bandwidth (4:4:4) to work can be problematic.

      HDMI Power - both cable types 'break' the HDMI guidelines (they steal power off of the HDMI signal bus). Where required we have a low cost 5v Injector plus regulated USB PSU we supply if we hit a power starvation issue - we supply these to less than 1% of our RuiPro customers.

      Joe
       
    14. seneca

      seneca
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      Ok, I'm going to go the hybrid fibre route, but need some guidance on which ethernet cable I need to run alongside it for music - Cat 5, 5e or 6? what's the main dfference and which is the "safest" to go with for the next 5-10 years?

      Also need some advice on trunking/conduit. The outside route is a bit up, down, left, right and goes onto an adjacent wall (extension at right angle to house.) I hear that most cables should not be bent or have any sharp turns, so are some kinds or cable more flexible than others? Which are ones to avoid? I imagine the thickness is a clue. Also, will an indoor cable run outside in conduit be more flexible than an exterior grade gable? As I am using conduit to make it neater, I figure there's no need to go for exterior cable. Additionally the hdmi and ethernet makes a single piece of conduit look neater than 2 different cables tacked individually to a wall.
       
    15. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      Solid core, non-CCA, CAT6 - is what we use for all applications be it IP or Video over IP.

      CAT6 has a 'spline' up the centre of the cable which helps to retain the integrity of the cable - it makes it a little stiffer than CAT5 though not so stiff to be unworkable.

      Internal grade cable will usually be a lot more flexible than External grade cable due to the different material used on the outer jacket - we use the Blackbox GigaTrue cable which is ideal for use within an internal or external conduit.

      Our RuiPro Hybrid Fibre cable can also be used within an internal or external conduit - though note it has to be installed with the connectors on so you require a decent size of conduit.

      Joe

      PS With reference to Cat cable what do you mean 'for music' requirement?
       
    16. seneca

      seneca
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      Thanks Joe. The "for music" was about my current use ie. Only sending ALAC files from my server and soon to be completed NAS. No video as of yet, only music.

      Any recommendations for conduit? Is a DIY store the place to look or somewhere online? I really only go to Screwfix.

      Something often mentioned about conduit is have to "round off" bends and 90 degree angles, to prevent kinks. Some cables in reviews point to stiffness allowing little flexibility. Do the hybrid fibre have the same issues, or is that the regular and active kind?

      Just to be clear, as a general rule, external grade cables are best avoided then, as the conduit protects them, and their added flexibility makes the installation easier and look neater?

      Thanks again.
       
    17. Joe Fernand

      Joe Fernand
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      Conduit - I'll find out what our installers use, though I suspect it'll vary with each install.

      Conduit bends - ideally you keep them gentle.

      RuiPro Hybrid HDMI cable - the 'cable' is thinner and more flexible than a conventional all copper HDMI cable, just remember you have to pull the cable with the hoods attached. See pic of bend radius.

      External Grade CAT cable - is usually stiff and once you have the cable installed you then have to deal with terminating it!

      Music - the files you are pulling across the network to playback via a local Player are a lot less bandwidth than a decoded UHD/HD Video signal you are pushing out to a Display.

      Joe
       

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