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London demos - or Distance Selling Regulations = home demo?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by dancingmatt, May 13, 2005.

  1. dancingmatt

    dancingmatt
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    Afternoon

    Anyone know where in London (or very nearby) I could demo a Sharp Z3, Hitachi TX100, NEC VT570 or VT575, or Viewsonic PJ550?

    Or do you know any online retailers that would let me buy a PJ, try it at home and send it back? Is that what the "cooling off" distance selling regulations can offer?

    I'm looking for an XGA or similar PJ for PAL DVDs and games off a PC, BTW...

    Have a luverly weekend and do try to go outside in the sun for a tiny bit rather than locked away in blacked out rooms... :cool:

    Ta

    DM
     
  2. Arkham Insane

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    add to this a possible hs50 demo somewhere in london? cheers
     
  3. Darko

    Darko
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    Maybe you should demo a Benq pe5120 if you are looking for a cinema PJ its a cool home cinema pj

    Just a thought
     
  4. UrbanT

    UrbanT
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    I would suggest it is very unfair for you to order projectors to demo them at home, and then send them back under distance selling regs. Although I'm not a retailer, I can imagine this would involve a lot of work for them, for possibly no reward. What are they to do with the projector once its been opened and used?

    I would try and strike a raport with a friendly dealer and see what you can work out :)
     
  5. dancingmatt

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    Don't assume that I'm looking to take advantage here by buying projectors with the intention of sending them back... :thumbsdow Like I said, I just don't know what the distance selling regs can offer, so I was asking if any retailers would let me buy to try at home. Do the regulations allow you to return something if you just change your mind? Does whatever you want to return have to be unopened?

    I just can't afford to spend a lot of money (not even a lot compared to some of the kit on this forum) without wanting to be sure I've bought the right thing. I'm reading an awful lot, but if anyone knows where I can see some kit then I'd like to know. Otherwise I'm also looking for an online retailer that would accept something back...

    BTW Darko, one of only 3 or 4 projectors I've managed to demo is the BenQ 5120, because there's so much on here about it, but I was a bit unimpressed. Didn't help that the shop demo'd it off a PC that wouldn't natively support the 854x480. And I'm 99% sure I want something at least XGA....
     
  6. Timbo21

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    I would be very careful about intending to buy with the possibility of returning
    under the distance selling acts.

    It could be a cumbersome process when returning, since they may really take a while to return your money whilst they check the pj out (could be upto a few months if they really want to be difficult).

    They may argue that the lamp cannot be resold since it has been used.

    There are some exceptions for things like sealed media which have been opened
    under the distance selling act, & it could be argued that the lamp could fall into this sort of category, then they might charge you for the lamp. :eek:
     
  7. Craig Armstrong

    Craig Armstrong
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    The Act does refer to sealed media, bespoke items etc, but I don't think that a retailer could argue that the bulb falls within these exemptions (my only caveat is the reference in the Act to goods which "deterioate or expire rapidly" - I'm sure the intention of the Act was not to include pj bulbs which can last for years in the right conditions/usage). However, you do have a duty to take "reasonable care" of the item before you return it. Therefore (and I'm not suggesting that this is your intention) leaving the pj on for seven days and then exercising your rights under the Act to notify the retailer within 7 days of delivery of your intention to return the projector is likely to cause a problem when the retailer checks the projector before refunding you the cost of the projector.
     
  8. dancingmatt

    dancingmatt
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    I really must emphasise I have no intention of conning anyone! :mad: Hell, I'd be dead annoyed if I bought a PJ new and found it had 1 hour of use on it, let alone any more than that!!!

    But interesting to find out what the regulations mean, so keep intepretations coming please. Although not at the expense of replies to my other threads about which PJ to actually buy... :thumbsup:

    Help :D

    DM
     
  9. Timbo21

    Timbo21
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    Exactly, & that's why there might be some probs returning pj's.

    I had a problem returning a DVD recorder, and initially they wanted to charge
    me 12% of the price, since they argued that they couldn't sell it as new, even
    though I returned it completely as I found it (hadn't even used their batteries). I got all the money in the end, but not without getting trading
    standards onto them.
     
  10. mattr

    mattr
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    Well according to http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm the only exceptions are listed in item 13. As a bulb isn't a financial item, a newspaper, an audio/video recording or software then it isn't exempt. I really can't see anything that prevents you from returning a PJ that you've used for a few days (bad news for retailers).

    In fact another government webpage has this quote "The aim of the cooling-off period is to give consumers an opportunity to examine the goods or services being offered, as they would have when buying in a shop.". So you can absolutely turn the PJ on and have a look. Again bad news for the retailer.

    Matt
     
  11. dancingmatt

    dancingmatt
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    Well that's kind of what I thought... it's to enable the consumer to try something like you would in a shop. Although there are of course many shops who won't let you unbox and set up a PJ...

    So this is what I thought, as in my first post. But that does then beg the question, where are the returned PJs? Where are all the discounted "as new" "unused" models?
     
  12. mattr

    mattr
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    I guess you need to ask who checks the "hours used" menu for the lamp ? Or maybe dealers know a "reset hours used" hack :eek:
     
  13. Craig Armstrong

    Craig Armstrong
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    Regulation 13(c) also refers to goods "which by their nature cannot be returned or are liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly", as I referred to in my earlier post. However, I agree that a projector which has only had very light use is unlikely to fall within Regulation 13(c), although if the boot were on the other foot and I was acting for the retailer then I would highlight the importance placed on bulb life to the buyer and that, unlike a TV, the second buyer will certainly not be happy when he readily identifies the prior use by the first buyer simply by checking the bulb usage stat.
     
  14. mattr

    mattr
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    Surely what the retailer can do with the item after it has been returned doesn't effect the contract with the current purchaser ? And I agree that a projector doesn't deteriote or expire rapidly. They'd have to say the bulb only lasts 1 hour rather than 2000 to get around that. Have a look at internet car sales - a purchaser can cancel that contract after taking delivery as well (some sites say you can't do more than 20 miles in the car which probably isn't tested in court either). It sucks for internet sales. I'm sure most projector buyers wouldn't know to check the lamp life anyhow, and if you buy one with a "zero defect check" then it'll have some hours on it anyway.

    Matt
     
  15. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Fitting a "new" LAMP, or removing and refitting the original lamp may well "reset the counter" would be useless if you couldn't reset.
     
  16. dancingmatt

    dancingmatt
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    Final questions from me on this - if I was to return something, who pays the postage to send it back and how quickly must they give me a refund?

    Money is tight but the new toy must be bought!

    DM
     
  17. Craig Armstrong

    Craig Armstrong
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    The retailer can require you to pay the cost of returning the item. This should be communicated to you no later than time of delivery pursuant to regulation 8(2)(b)(ii) of the Act.
     
  18. Craig Armstrong

    Craig Armstrong
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    Oh, and as for the refund, this should be as soon as possible and in any event within 30 days of the date of notification of the intended return (regulation 14(3)).
     
  19. dancingmatt

    dancingmatt
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    Craig, sincerely, thanks very much for explaining all that. Very useful, hope others found it useful too!!!

    Cheers
    DM
     
  20. nigelbb

    nigelbb
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    It's _good news_ for the retailer as the DSR give customers the confidence to purchase online or mail order knowing that they can return the goods if they are not suitable. I bought a Panasonic PT-AE700 sight unseen knowing that if it wasn't suitable for my use that I could get a full refund. The DSR or equivalent is European wide as it is supposed to encourage the single market. Actually where I bought the PJ offers a 15 day return period. It's not like soemone is going to go through the hassle of ordering a PJ & paying for it then keeping it for a few days & returning it without good reason. DSR means that it is actually better to buy things online than in a bricks & mortar store.
     
  21. PJTX100

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    Usually true but with cup final looming you may never know...PJ :)
     
  22. JohnsonChris

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    Hi all,

    Stepping away from the discussions over distance selling - i thought I'd let you know I came across a good company in London who were prepared to offer me a both their site based demo's and home demo's. The Pre-Req for the home demo is that of course I pay for the unit in full before it left their site - but if I wasn't happy with it then I could simply return it for a refund.

    http://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/

    Cheers.
    Chris
     
  23. dancingmatt

    dancingmatt
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    Thanks for that Chris - unfortunately when I called them earlier they did say I could buy a PJ and try it at home, but for no more than 1 hour.

    I can of course appreciate that they don't want to be stuck with a PJ they can't then sell, but I wouldn't call 1 hour a home demo? Not worth the effort for all the hassle of paying for it, then sending it back and waiting for the refund if I wasn't happy...

    A few hours, yeah...

    They did also offer me to go see a Z3 at their shop.
     
  24. sainthalo

    sainthalo
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    cant you just reset the lamp timings?
     
  25. dancingmatt

    dancingmatt
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    Ooooh....

    Not really living up your name there... :devil:

    No, I wouldn't do that. :lesson:
     
  26. sainthalo

    sainthalo
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    tbh i think a one hour home demo might be good enough as long as you put in Rones Z3 calibration settings in as soon as you turn it on which would take 5 minutes or so. 2 hours would be ideal though. bit tight of them.
     
  27. sainthalo

    sainthalo
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    PS John Lewis used to do projectors, maybe they still do, if you order from them they say they will even pick it up for free if you dont want to keep it. never tried but was thinking about it a few years ago.
     

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