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Loewe misery

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by magnatom, Jun 27, 2003.

  1. magnatom

    magnatom
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    Woe is me!
    Here is a quick run down of the problem.

    Many moons ago I had a Sony FQ75 with the lovely scrolling bars problem. :rolleyes: Eventually after lots of trouble with Sony admitting the problem, I switched to a lovely Loewe (Vitros Q2400 chassis). It was a sight to behold with lovely pictures to match.
    That was until I started viewing region one DVD's. On the left an right of the screen I would see nasty intensity striations (moire patterns) that would spoil my movie enjoyment. :thumbsdow
    Obviously I went back to the shop of purchase (Sevenoaks in Glasgow who have been very helpful throughout) with the aim of getting it sorted.
    It has taken 3 different repair companies, each denying there was a problem (although I just got the last one to admit that they didn't have any region 1 DVD's to test it with, which I think is what happened at all three:mad:) to finally get an answer from Loewe.
    Loewe apparently said "The TV was optimised for the UK and therefore there is not much we can do to improve the region 1 problem" (this was a statement made by the engineer after talking to Loewe so its is second hand).
    Yet the Loewe is advertised as being capable of NTSC so it is reasonable to expect this to be of comparable quality to PAL, isn't it?!?!
    Loewe have offered to send an engineer to have a look at changing some geometry settings on the TVwhich would reduce the problem but I know what settings these are and this would result is severe distortions in the NTSC geometry!:mad:

    Sevenoaks are now in discussions with Loewe but I am not holding my breath!

    Am I right to be so annoyed? Is it possible to have good quality pictures on both NTSC and PAL? Why are TV repair manufacturers so useless? And if I do decide to get rid of the Loewe, what should I buy with my ~£1700?

    Woe is me.......:( :thumbsdow :mad: :(
     
  2. Radiohead

    Radiohead
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    Sounds unfair to me - my Sony FX68 is as good with NTSC as PAL and I'd expect it to be.
     
  3. Badger

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    When I had an NTSC display problem with my Q2400 Aconda (different to yours) I ended up contacting Loewe directly (Linn in the UK) and ending up getting it sorted out with them - The bloke I dealt with couldn't have been more helpful with regards to fixing the problem.

    Might be worth a punt contacting Loewe direct ?

    Phil
     
  4. Badger

    Badger
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    Another take to take (if you have the kit) is to see if PAL60 has the same problem as this could put you in a position to rebuff that ludicrous excuse

    Phil
     
  5. magnatom

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    Badger,

    I have a Tosh 210 DVD player, I presume tha doesn't have the capability, or does it?
     
  6. jase the space

    jase the space
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    I too noticed Moire on my Q2500 Vitros - but I had it in PAL in some screen modes as well. Tried the S-Correction tweak posted by others but it didn't get rid of it so I sent the thing back. I previously had a Tosh PF1 which was fine in PAL and NTSC in all screen modes (but had other problems!).

    I believe this is purely down to the (Philips) tube being optimised for PAL. From memory this affects Panasonics as well. However, as I said I had no problem at all with Tosh in this respect.

    I was shocked when I discovered my expensive Loewe had this problem when no one else (or at least not many) had seen this issue. It seesm that as more people are buying Loewes, more problems are being experienced (as you would expect). Their build quality is superb but I didn't really get on with the picture unfortunately.
     
  7. groundy

    groundy
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    Shame you never got anywhere with the problem Dave :(.

    As you know, I brought this to Loewe's attention a long time ago now and posted their direct response in the the following thread:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51973

    I have to say that I have achieved a perfect fix for this through careful (painstaking) tweaking of V Amp and S-Corr. PAL 60 will not correct the problem because it's the 60Hz refresh rate that causes the moire in the first place, hence the optimised for PAL (i.e. 50Hz), is a valid statement. The Moire is invisible from anything over 6 ft away which suits me fine viewing at 8/9 ft. Geometry distortion is so minimal to be only noticeable at the very extreme right on a Crosshatch test pattern - the centre of the final vertical line has a slight bend. I did tweak EW Amp, EW Upper, EW Lower and other V params to straighten the bend a little more which helped. Again, this is now invisible during normal viewing and I have had TV's with much much worse geometry out of the box.

    Is it worth another go yourself? Maybe as it took me weeks to finally get it right - this didn't happen in one sitting. You might never get it to your satisfaction though.

    Remember, ALL TV's have their problems, no matter what reports you hear from some people saying their set is perfect etc. The fact is some people just aren't susceptible to seeing certain problems. Everything is a compromise, even at this pricepoint. It's just a question of what set of problems you are prepared to live with.

    If you do decide to get rid of the Loewe, I would not buy another Widescreen TV at all - I would go that extra mile and save for a Plasma. Plasma's are also not perfect, you bring in contrast and other issues but one thing is certain, they suff ZERO geometry distortion. That's all I need to hear :smashin:.
     
  8. magnatom

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    Thanks for the reply Paul. As you might remember I did try the corrections you mentioned. Unfortunately even with large corrections the pattern remained (although the 'wavelength' of the pattern did reduce. As you know the more correction the more distortion you have to try and correct .......

    I also agree with you about nothing being perfect and I realise that if I strive for perfection I will never be happy, but even my wife can see this problem (and that is saying something!)

    I suppose I will let Loewe send round an engineer if they do offer, but that'll mean another half day off work (assuming they can tell me AM or PM!)
    So far this year between me and my wife we must have used up 3 days holiday just waiting for engineers etc

    What really did ruffle my feathers was the fact that with the last repair firm (Endeva, I may as well name and shame!) they had full details that the problem ONLY occured in NTSC mode and yet they never bothered to check it and would just have sent it back to me with no explaination, had I not chased them up!!

    Of course plasma is the ideal, but having moved into a new house this year, with a patio to lay, dining table to buy, new suite for the lounge etc I don't think the finances will stretch to a plasma:( (unless there are any great deals for £1700!)

    And I thought home cinema was supposed to be fun :(

    Anyway at least it is Friday!

    I will post again when I decide what to do!
     
  9. scooby do

    scooby do
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    How did I know Endeva would get a mention, I think they employee people with only short sight.
     
  10. mij

    mij
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    Endeva took away my DVD player for repair, six weeks later and dozens of calls from me, they told me they cannot repair it without any explanation, and then some time later they were sent to try and fix my Philips Pixel plus TV, the engineer turned up and promptly said I have never seen one of these before, and then nearly broke the rear case by trying to pull it off while 2 screws were still inplace. If anything ever goes wrong with my Loewe I think I will pay extra to get another company involved.

    mij
     
  11. magnatom

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    I had a laugh when the engineer came from Endeva to investigate the problem. He came in and had a look at the TV and after I had shown him the problem he said, 'must admit, the French certainly know how to make a nice looking TV' ?!?!?!?:eek: :rolleyes:

    That gave me a lot of confidence!
     
  12. leeoh

    leeoh
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    Yeph, indeed Endeva are crap felt like throwing the guy out after he came round to look at my TV and did bugger all after having taken half the day off work.
     
  13. magnatom

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    Sorry for dredging up an old thread but I thought I would post an update.

    Just off the phone to Sevenoaks, and they have decided to get a new Vitros in for me to try. If this doesn't have the Moire problem I get to keep it. Fingers crossed.........

    During the last few weeks as well as being in contact with the shop I had quite a long discussion with one of Loewes sales reps. He was a nice guy (I suppose thats part of the job :rolleyes: ) but he only repeated Loewes statement that the TV's were optimised for PAL. He agreed that there can be problems with NTSC, but that was within UK spec. Apparently I an a discerning customer :mad: .

    What annoys me is that the TV is advertised as being able to display NTSC, and there is no mention of the TV being PAL optimised. Loewes statement made it difficult for the chap at the shop to justify to his bosses that I should get a replacement, as they could just say, 'the manufacturer has stated that it is within spec'. However, in the end the shop has come good.

    Anyway I will post to this thread again when I get the new set.
     
  14. mij

    mij
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    Good luck with the replacement, I have the 32 inch Aventos and have noticed this with a region 1 DVD, but like groundy I have to get close to the screen to see it, and everything else is done so well I will accept it, a friend has an identical Aventos which shows the problem much more than mine, proving that it is pure luck as to how good a CRT will be.

    Would'nt it be nice if we could go to a demo room armed with our DVD player and a few of our own DVD's and try out our TV before accepting delivery.

    mij
     
  15. magnatom

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    Hi folks,

    Just thought I would update you. Received my replacment Loewe vitros yesterday. Spent most of last night playing wth the geometry settings (whilst having a few beers :zonked: )

    At first when I switched the TV on I was a shocked to see the Moire pattern as before (on NTSC material). However, on this model (my previous model is the older chassis version) I was able to eradicate the moire effect using the s-correction and -v-amplitude parameters :clap: . Of course this sent my geometry out, but I do think I with some more time I will be able to strike a good balance using the other various parameters. (Avia is my best friend!)

    It's early days yet but it seems I may have at last reached TV Nirvana:cool: .

    Thanks everyone for their help (especially Groundy). Now its time to enjoy....
     

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